> And, FTR, I find this particular sub-thread meaningless
> nonsense. If you have a relevant point to make regarding the
> topic of this thread then by all means make it and I shall
> happily respond. Otherwise, do not waste my tme with this
> meaningless drivel and do not expect me to reply.
Well, you might like to consider this point from the content of this month's AoM book.
From the Introduction, pgs. 14, 16:
On pg. 15, the text beneath Figure 1.3 reads:Quote
Of even more interest to our research here is the Masonic Emblem of Lodge Number 78 (figure 1.3), which shows a pyramid angled at 23.5°, but with the image of the Great Sphinx included in the emblem—a fairly clear reference, one would have thought, to the Great Pyramids at Giza.
The Masonic Emblem from Lodge Number 78 in London (date unknown). The Latin inscription, SVA SIDERA NORVNT translates as “His own constellations have acknowledged him,” in reference to the Masonic concept of the “Grand Architect,” God. This image was used for the reverse side of a silver medal now in the British Museum (ca. 1742). We are told this medal was created on special command by the pope to commemorate the visit to Rome by the English Antiquary Martin Folkes in 1733, whose bust is featured on the obverse. Folkes was appointed a member of the Royal Society by its president, Sir Isaac Newton, in 1716. Folkes was also a Freemason and a member of the Lodges in London and Norwich, which would explain why this image was used as the Masonic Emblem for the London Lodge.
This is the British Museum page on the medal in question, which states:
This medal was executed at Rome, and, tradition says, by especial command of the Pope, unknown to Folkes, whom it was intended to surprise during his visit to that city. ... the date of the medal may be ... 1738 or 1742. Either date is inconsistent with the story, as Folkes' visit to Rome took place in 1733. It is much more probable that the medal was struck at Rome to show the high esteem in which Folkes was held in the city of antiquities, and about the time that he was elected a member of the French Academy. There is in the British Museum an early proof of this medal struck before the legends were added or the type of the reverse finished.
This is the description of the medal as it appears in THE MEDALS. OF THE. MASONIC FRATERNITY. DESCRIBED AND ILLUSTRATED., 1745. WILLIAM T. R. MARVIN. Boston, 1880 CCCCLXXXIL; pg 194-195, PDF 230-231):
Naked bust to right of Folkes. Legend,MARTiNVS on left, and folkes on right. Reverse, In the foreground, a sphinx, to the right, seated on a pedestal ; on her side is a crescent. In the distance are walls partly in ruins, with the pyramid of Cestius on the left, showing the north front, with the door ; on each of the front corners stands a Corinthian pillar : above, on the right, the radiant sun.
Note 334 states that:
Martin Folkes was a distinguished English antiquary famous
and numismatist, as well as a somewhat prominent Mason, having been Deputy Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of England, under the Duke of Richmond, in 1724-5. Although little is known of his connection with the Order subsequently, the fact that the Medal was struck in his honor nearly twenty years later, seems to show that his interest in it was unabated. He was also President of the of so Royal Society in 1741, Member of the French Academy in 1742, and President of the Society of Antiquaries in that in 1750 …
It is known that Folkes communicated some papers on Roman Archaeology to the learned Societies in England, of which he was a member, prepared during his residenceat Rome. The pyramid of Cestius, at that city, is outsidethe walls of Nero, but within those of Aurelian ... What connection this has with Freemasonry, or with the Sphynx in the foreground, or the legend, which is from the Aeneid, vi. 641, with either, I confess myself unable to discover. I am inclined to think these emblems were therefore selected from the mystery with which they were surrounded, and with some allusion to the well known antiquarian tastes of Folkes. The pillars on either side of the entrance, which have no actual existence at the pyramid, may allude to the well known emblems, and with the date, evidently Masonic, are the only means by which we can connect this Medal certainly with the Fraternity.
This is Wiki on Martin Folkes.
Mackey, Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, 314-5, has a few more details on Folkes:
Of the Masonic life of Folkes, we have but few records. In 1725, he was appointed Deputy Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of England … Anderson says that he presided over the Grand Lodge in May of that year … But he held no office afterwards; …
Of his alleged connection with London Lodge no. 78, and a lodge in Norwich, I could find no mention. (I tried to find out more about London Lodge no. 78, but with little success. It would have helped if the Lodge's name could have been provided - but presumably this wasn't available. I was unable to find a present day London Lodge 78. Such Lodges as I can find with this number tend to be based in the north of England, so would have no connection with London Lodge no. 78. In the early part of the 18th century, however, Grand Lodge (formed in 1717) was struggling to keep control of Lodges in London and the provinces (Knoop & Jones, Genesis of Freemasonry, 1947, p 186-190). Possibly London Lodge 78 was amalgamated with another Lodge, and re-numbered.)
Turning to the quotation Sva Sidera Norvnt, this, as stated by Marvin, is a quotation from Virgil's Aeneid, 6:641. Book 6 narrates Aeneas' visit to the underworld. What Virgil is describing, and what the quotation pertains to, is an imagined underworld that, being deprived of daylight, has its own sun, moon - and stars - to provide illumination:
largior hic campos aether et lvmine vestit
pvrpvreo, solemqve svvm, sva sidera norvnt. Aeneid 6:641
So your statement that: 'SVA SIDERA NORVNT translates as “His own constellations have acknowledged him, ”in reference to the Masonic concept of the “Grand Architect,” God.' cannot be correct.
Nor can the pyramid on the medal be a reference to the Great Pyramids of Giza, or to "a pyramid angled at 23.5°". The pyramid in question, as we've seen, is actually that of Cestius, in Rome, reflecting Folkes' antiquarian interests - and, as we are reliably assured here, the slope of the pyramid of Cestius is not 23.5 degrees.
Edited: Add page nos.
Post Edited (18-Aug-13 22:06)