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The sole surviving manuscript dates to the later 13th century BCE (no earlier than the 19th dynasty in the New Kingdom).

The date for the composition of this document is unknown. The papyrus itself (Papyrus Leiden I 344) is a copy made during the New Kingdom of Egypt.[1] The dating of the original composition of the poem is disputed, but several scholars have suggested a date between the late 6th dynasty and the Second Intermediate Period (ca. 1850 BCE-1600 BCE),[4] and appears to describe how the Hyksos took over Egypt.[5] [6] The theme of this work had previously been taken either as a lament inspired by the supposed chaos of the First Intermediate Period,[5] or as a plea to Pepi II Neferkare depicting the fall of the Old Kingdom.[7][8] The admonitions may not be a discussion with a king at all however. Otto was the first to suggest that the discussion was not between Ipuwer and his king, but that this was a discussion between Ipuwer and a deity. Fecht showed through philological interpretation and revision of the relevant passages that this is indeed a discussion with a deity.[9] Modern research suggests that the papyrus dates to the much later 13th dynasty, with part of the papyrus now thought to date to the time of Pharaoh Khety, and the admonitions of Ipuwer actually being addressed to the god Atum, not a mortal king.[10] The admonitions are thought to harken back to the First Intermediate Period and record a decline in international relations and a general impoverishment in Egypt.

MA: Why should we consider this, supposedly later, document as a credible source for "pre-fifth" Egypt?

SC: As the Wiki article states: "... The date for the composition of this document is unknown... the dating of the original composition of the poem is disputed, but several scholars have suggested a date..."

So scholars simply do not know for certain the date for the original composition - it's in dispute. But anyway - we are not saying this document is pre-fifth dynasty - only that it tells us "...what the pyramid concealed was emptied..." And it seems this emptying of the pyramids took place during a period of great upheaval in ancient Egypt as one would imagine rapid and catastrophic climate change would bring.

Regards,

Scott

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 666 Scott Creighton 01-Feb-12 18:39
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 261 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 05:35
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 275 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 13:38
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 251 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 14:11
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 261 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 14:29
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 261 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 14:53
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 271 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 15:20
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 261 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 15:31
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 269 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 16:01
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 283 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 16:27
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 258 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 16:48
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 267 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 16:59
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 253 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 17:19
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 254 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 17:35
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 238 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 17:54
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 241 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 18:07
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 346 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 18:25
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 223 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 19:02
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 257 Gary Osborn 02-Feb-12 19:12
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 251 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 19:31
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 256 Gary Osborn 02-Feb-12 21:39
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 240 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 19:56
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 257 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 22:08
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 284 Scott Creighton 03-Feb-12 00:04
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 248 Ahatmose 03-Feb-12 00:14
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 242 Scott Creighton 03-Feb-12 00:25
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 263 Ahatmose 03-Feb-12 00:36
Re: Finding a starting point 262 Thunderbird 03-Feb-12 00:52
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 241 Audrey 03-Feb-12 02:41
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 205 Ahatmose 03-Feb-12 02:47
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 243 Ahatmose 03-Feb-12 02:54
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 217 Scott Creighton 03-Feb-12 10:02
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 275 Gary Osborn 02-Feb-12 16:57
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 187 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 17:43
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 232 Gary Osborn 02-Feb-12 18:13
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 257 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 18:20
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 247 Gary Osborn 02-Feb-12 18:28
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 270 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 19:11
BREAKING NEWS 242 Spiros 02-Feb-12 20:35
Re: BREAKING NEWS 250 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 22:12
Re: BREAKING NEWS 254 Spiros 02-Feb-12 22:40
Re: BREAKING NEWS 276 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 22:45
Re: BREAKING NEWS 270 Spiros 03-Feb-12 13:06
Re: BREAKING NEWS 266 Ahatmose 03-Feb-12 20:26
addendum 284 Ahatmose 03-Feb-12 21:13
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 253 cladking 03-Feb-12 00:52
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 271 Audrey 03-Feb-12 03:23
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 260 Ahatmose 03-Feb-12 03:37
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 271 Audrey 03-Feb-12 05:36
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 319 Spiros 02-Feb-12 15:13
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 280 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 15:50
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 262 Spiros 02-Feb-12 20:55
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 225 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 15:53
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 280 Gary Osborn 02-Feb-12 16:01
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 247 Spiros 02-Feb-12 19:58
the 727 AD alignment 243 Spiros 02-Feb-12 20:17
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 374 NetWorkAngel 03-Feb-12 04:49
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 255 Audrey 03-Feb-12 05:44
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 384 NetWorkAngel 03-Feb-12 05:48
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 290 Scott Creighton 03-Feb-12 12:35
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 250 Chris Jordan 03-Feb-12 13:13
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 278 Scott Creighton 03-Feb-12 14:43
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 288 Chris Jordan 03-Feb-12 18:12
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 252 Scott Creighton 03-Feb-12 18:50
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 272 Chris Jordan 03-Feb-12 19:30
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 254 Chris Jordan 04-Feb-12 19:24
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 310 Lothur 03-Feb-12 19:50
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 282 PsycheDelia Smith 03-Feb-12 21:10
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 289 Lothur 04-Feb-12 01:22
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 286 Scott Creighton 04-Feb-12 15:14
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 295 Lothur 04-Feb-12 16:28
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 261 Audrey 04-Feb-12 06:39
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 264 Scott Creighton 04-Feb-12 12:06
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 318 Lothur 04-Feb-12 16:25
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 263 Morten 04-Feb-12 03:59
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 275 Scott Creighton 04-Feb-12 14:47
The Dialogue of Ipuur 252 Morten 04-Feb-12 18:25
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 249 Scott Creighton 04-Feb-12 18:34
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 268 Morten 04-Feb-12 19:05
Exploratory or argumentative? 272 drrayeye 04-Feb-12 22:46
Re: Exploratory or argumentative? 239 Morten 05-Feb-12 11:02
Re: Exploratory or argumentative? 278 drrayeye 05-Feb-12 13:28
Re: Exploratory or argumentative? 289 Thunderbird 05-Feb-12 18:27
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 261 Gary Osborn 04-Feb-12 23:31
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 269 magisterchessmutt 05-Feb-12 02:46
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 276 Gary Osborn 05-Feb-12 14:29
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 260 magisterchessmutt 05-Feb-12 17:46
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 363 Gary Osborn 05-Feb-12 17:52
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 218 Morten 05-Feb-12 10:39
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 301 Scott Creighton 05-Feb-12 14:48
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 256 Gary Osborn 05-Feb-12 16:07
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 476 cladking 05-Feb-12 16:59
Pocket Fisherman ... 302 jnisbet 04-Feb-12 08:38
Re: Pocket Fisherman ... 250 Scott Creighton 04-Feb-12 15:00
On second thought .... 251 Ahatmose 05-Feb-12 02:05
Re: On second thought .... 271 Scott Creighton 05-Feb-12 13:27
Re: On second thought .... 311 jnisbet 05-Feb-12 13:34
Re: On second thought .... 267 Ahatmose 05-Feb-12 13:45
Re: On second thought .... 271 jnisbet 05-Feb-12 14:33
Re: On second thought .... 246 Ahatmose 05-Feb-12 14:47
Re: On second thought .... 212 Scott Creighton 05-Feb-12 14:53
Re: On second thought .... 267 Ahatmose 05-Feb-12 15:38
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 257 LonelyAngel 05-Feb-12 16:39
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 259 Gary Osborn 05-Feb-12 17:30
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 272 Glanymor1948 05-Feb-12 20:30
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 281 Scott Creighton 06-Feb-12 11:17
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 254 Audrey 11-Feb-12 19:53
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 263 Gary Osborn 11-Feb-12 22:05
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 253 Ahatmose 11-Feb-12 23:48
Re: What if they were not Egyptians? 233 Thunderbird 12-Feb-12 02:46
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 240 Scott Creighton 13-Feb-12 00:02
Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 263 cladking 22-Feb-12 22:45
Re: Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 223 Scott Creighton 23-Feb-12 11:12
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 280 Drewski 23-Feb-12 10:48
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 280 Scott Creighton 23-Feb-12 23:58
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 235 Drewski 24-Feb-12 01:15
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 222 Scott Creighton 24-Feb-12 10:50
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 287 BethSwiss 24-Feb-12 11:16
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 252 Gary Osborn 24-Feb-12 12:15
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 277 BethSwiss 24-Feb-12 17:48
Form follows function, etc. ... 282 jnisbet 26-Feb-12 05:08


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