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Hi Chris,

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SC: We are discussing Recovery Vaults which typically would be quite different from a normal granary in that many other useful items would be stored e.g. vases, pots, plates, tools, weapons, important texts etc, etc. And seeds, of course.

CJ: The descriptions here can equally be applied to the Ziggurats of Babylon. The Babylonian Ziggurats housed 'vases, pots, plates, tools, weapons, important texts etc, etc. And seeds, of course.'. Even if we look to the Temples of Ra, which were huge solid constructs they were known to have stored seeds/grain and plenty of other garb from your list.

SC: And these were designed to be opened and accessed on a regular basis – unlike the pyramids.

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SC: A typical ancient granary would not match the colossal size of the Pyramid Recovery Vaults. The Recovery Vaults had to be made highly visible in a barren landscape so that they could be easily found. Their internal storage chambers would require to be sealed with considerable security/blocking measures to deter/prevent casual looting. You would not find such heavy security measures in a typical granary.

CJ: The Babylonian food storage and distribution centers were absolutely massive and very well fortified.

SC: I am sure they probably were – and understandably so. But they were also designed to be accessed regularly, again, unlike the pyramids.

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CJ: Excepting the size of the three Giza pyramids, I guess the Zigs would be at least around the same scale as the rest. Most food storage has to be sealed otherwise it would not protect the produce from mould, rats or bugs. Defensive measures would be a wise precaution since the people turn to these stores in times of famine or crop failure.

SC: Absolutely agree.

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CJ: You get why I am asking for distinguishing features. Are you trying to change the view of these other ancient massive food storage and distribution centers to RVs as well? Or do you think there was a dual purpose both for ongoing and in the event of a catastrophe?

SC: I am suggesting the pyramids were not meant to be accessed regularly. As I stated earlier – there is compelling evidence to suggest that whatever was stored in G1 was placed there from the top and not via any of the passages. This doesn’t seem like the most practical way to store things into a granary since there would be no easy way of accessing the contents once the pyramid was finished. The contents were effectively locked in with no easy access.


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SC: There are numerous silos around Djoser’s pyramid complex. Also, there are vast storage galleries a short distance to the west of G2.

CJ: Ancient Egypt was the bread basket of the ancient world, this would require absolutely massive sets of storage facilities, surely?

SC: And?

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SC: The large cache of wheat and barley seed found under the Step Pyramid (Saqqara) seem to have been perfectly preserved i.e. there does not seem to have been any damage by water ingress. Perhaps this is why all the Recovery Vaults were
placed on high plateaus to guard against the rising Nile. The tightly fitted casing stones would also have been protection against rising waters. There is also good evidence to suggest that the items stored in the GP were placed there from the top of the pyramid (i.e. before the KC ceiling was set in place.). The three granite blocking slabs in the Ante Chamber would essentially hermetically seal the Grand Gallery.

CJ: I think your case is strong for seed storage on the step structures, in particular ones with access.

SC: I think the evidence from that particular pyramid very strongly indicates the Recovery Vault function especially so considering the severe drought of the time; a drought that was so severe it prompted the famous ‘Famine Stele’.

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CJ: These also have a food processing aspect in their original forms. I think less so in the case of Cheops. For a start the KC had 'air vents'/shafts or are you suggesting these were hermetically sealed. It would prove a huge leap of faith (maybe thats what you are saying) 'for the AE's to build that structure, put seeds in it and never look again.

SC: Different chambers would have held different things. There is no need to place seeds in the KC. I suggest the vast, sloping Grand Gallery was the principle storage vault in the GP. Heremetically sealed at the top and the bottom. The roof of the KC was probably raised via the misnamed ‘relieving chambers’ to ensure the gabled blocks did not smash through the Ante Chamber granite sealing blocks thereby compromising the cache by allowing air from the KC to pass into the GG. The three granite blocks of the Ante Chamber were not placed to prevent access to the KC but rather to minimise air-flow from the open KC air-shafts into the Grand Gallery. There is no such blocking stones from the so-called Queen’s Chamber – no need since no moisture-carrying air can flow from that chamber.

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CJ: There were not piles of seeds found within the GP structures anyway. I hope you are not going to point to looters walking off with vases of seeds.

SC: Why not? The AEs themselves tell us they emptied them.

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CJ: According to most engineers that have looked at the GP pyramids water was somehow involved at least to the level of the QC. This would be a disaster for food storage. The tightly fitted casing stones would keep the water inside the structure since these engineers posit it came from the well shaft within. Cladking has it rising to 60-70ft above the plateau as you know.

SC: The designers could only do their best in extraordinary circumstances to attempt to cover all bases. If their best failed then they probably would not know about it anyway. But what was their choice? Do nothing?

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CJ: Sealed or tightly fitting granite boxes would be excellent for this storage task. Are you not turning to those found below ground for support?

SC: No.

Best wishes,

Scott



Post Edited (03-Feb-12 19:23)

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 632 Scott Creighton 01-Feb-12 18:39
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 243 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 05:35
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 261 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 13:38
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 236 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 14:11
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 245 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 14:29
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 244 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 14:53
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 256 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 15:20
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 247 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 15:31
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 255 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 16:01
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 266 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 16:27
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 241 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 16:48
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 253 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 16:59
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 237 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 17:19
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 241 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 17:35
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 221 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 17:54
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 226 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 18:07
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 330 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 18:25
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 205 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 19:02
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 241 Gary Osborn 02-Feb-12 19:12
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 237 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 19:31
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 238 Gary Osborn 02-Feb-12 21:39
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 223 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 19:56
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 243 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 22:08
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 266 Scott Creighton 03-Feb-12 00:04
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 233 Ahatmose 03-Feb-12 00:14
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 226 Scott Creighton 03-Feb-12 00:25
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 247 Ahatmose 03-Feb-12 00:36
Re: Finding a starting point 247 Thunderbird 03-Feb-12 00:52
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 226 Audrey 03-Feb-12 02:41
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 190 Ahatmose 03-Feb-12 02:47
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 228 Ahatmose 03-Feb-12 02:54
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 202 Scott Creighton 03-Feb-12 10:02
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 259 Gary Osborn 02-Feb-12 16:57
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 171 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 17:43
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 217 Gary Osborn 02-Feb-12 18:13
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 241 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 18:20
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 233 Gary Osborn 02-Feb-12 18:28
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 255 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 19:11
BREAKING NEWS 228 Spiros 02-Feb-12 20:35
Re: BREAKING NEWS 233 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 22:12
Re: BREAKING NEWS 239 Spiros 02-Feb-12 22:40
Re: BREAKING NEWS 262 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 22:45
Re: BREAKING NEWS 256 Spiros 03-Feb-12 13:06
Re: BREAKING NEWS 248 Ahatmose 03-Feb-12 20:26
addendum 268 Ahatmose 03-Feb-12 21:13
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 235 cladking 03-Feb-12 00:52
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 255 Audrey 03-Feb-12 03:23
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 244 Ahatmose 03-Feb-12 03:37
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 254 Audrey 03-Feb-12 05:36
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 303 Spiros 02-Feb-12 15:13
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 264 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 15:50
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 247 Spiros 02-Feb-12 20:55
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 211 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 15:53
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 264 Gary Osborn 02-Feb-12 16:01
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 232 Spiros 02-Feb-12 19:58
the 727 AD alignment 226 Spiros 02-Feb-12 20:17
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 358 NetWorkAngel 03-Feb-12 04:49
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 240 Audrey 03-Feb-12 05:44
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 368 NetWorkAngel 03-Feb-12 05:48
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 273 Scott Creighton 03-Feb-12 12:35
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 233 Chris Jordan 03-Feb-12 13:13
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 263 Scott Creighton 03-Feb-12 14:43
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 271 Chris Jordan 03-Feb-12 18:12
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 233 Scott Creighton 03-Feb-12 18:50
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 256 Chris Jordan 03-Feb-12 19:30
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 238 Chris Jordan 04-Feb-12 19:24
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 296 Lothur 03-Feb-12 19:50
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 268 PsycheDelia Smith 03-Feb-12 21:10
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 274 Lothur 04-Feb-12 01:22
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 271 Scott Creighton 04-Feb-12 15:14
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 278 Lothur 04-Feb-12 16:28
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 244 Audrey 04-Feb-12 06:39
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 249 Scott Creighton 04-Feb-12 12:06
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 302 Lothur 04-Feb-12 16:25
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 248 Morten 04-Feb-12 03:59
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 262 Scott Creighton 04-Feb-12 14:47
The Dialogue of Ipuur 237 Morten 04-Feb-12 18:25
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 235 Scott Creighton 04-Feb-12 18:34
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 254 Morten 04-Feb-12 19:05
Exploratory or argumentative? 258 drrayeye 04-Feb-12 22:46
Re: Exploratory or argumentative? 224 Morten 05-Feb-12 11:02
Re: Exploratory or argumentative? 265 drrayeye 05-Feb-12 13:28
Re: Exploratory or argumentative? 273 Thunderbird 05-Feb-12 18:27
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 246 Gary Osborn 04-Feb-12 23:31
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 251 magisterchessmutt 05-Feb-12 02:46
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 261 Gary Osborn 05-Feb-12 14:29
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 243 magisterchessmutt 05-Feb-12 17:46
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 349 Gary Osborn 05-Feb-12 17:52
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 204 Morten 05-Feb-12 10:39
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 280 Scott Creighton 05-Feb-12 14:48
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 241 Gary Osborn 05-Feb-12 16:07
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 459 cladking 05-Feb-12 16:59
Pocket Fisherman ... 283 jnisbet 04-Feb-12 08:38
Re: Pocket Fisherman ... 233 Scott Creighton 04-Feb-12 15:00
On second thought .... 235 Ahatmose 05-Feb-12 02:05
Re: On second thought .... 256 Scott Creighton 05-Feb-12 13:27
Re: On second thought .... 295 jnisbet 05-Feb-12 13:34
Re: On second thought .... 253 Ahatmose 05-Feb-12 13:45
Re: On second thought .... 257 jnisbet 05-Feb-12 14:33
Re: On second thought .... 232 Ahatmose 05-Feb-12 14:47
Re: On second thought .... 194 Scott Creighton 05-Feb-12 14:53
Re: On second thought .... 252 Ahatmose 05-Feb-12 15:38
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 243 LonelyAngel 05-Feb-12 16:39
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 244 Gary Osborn 05-Feb-12 17:30
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 257 Glanymor1948 05-Feb-12 20:30
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 267 Scott Creighton 06-Feb-12 11:17
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 240 Audrey 11-Feb-12 19:53
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 247 Gary Osborn 11-Feb-12 22:05
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 236 Ahatmose 11-Feb-12 23:48
Re: What if they were not Egyptians? 216 Thunderbird 12-Feb-12 02:46
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 224 Scott Creighton 13-Feb-12 00:02
Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 247 cladking 22-Feb-12 22:45
Re: Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 207 Scott Creighton 23-Feb-12 11:12
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 266 Drewski 23-Feb-12 10:48
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 265 Scott Creighton 23-Feb-12 23:58
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 219 Drewski 24-Feb-12 01:15
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 208 Scott Creighton 24-Feb-12 10:50
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 269 BethSwiss 24-Feb-12 11:16
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 237 Gary Osborn 24-Feb-12 12:15
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 263 BethSwiss 24-Feb-12 17:48
Form follows function, etc. ... 266 jnisbet 26-Feb-12 05:08


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