SC: We are discussing Recovery Vaults which typically would be quite different from a normal granary in that many other useful items would be stored e.g. vases, pots, plates, tools, weapons, important texts etc, etc. And seeds, of course.
CJ: The descriptions here can equally be applied to the Ziggurats of Babylon. The Babylonian Ziggurats housed 'vases, pots, plates, tools, weapons, important texts etc, etc. And seeds, of course.'. Even if we look to the Temples of Ra, which were huge solid constructs they were known to have stored seeds/grain and plenty of other garb from your list.
SC: And these were designed to be opened and accessed on a regular basis – unlike the pyramids.
SC: A typical ancient granary would not match the colossal size of the Pyramid Recovery Vaults. The Recovery Vaults had to be made highly visible in a barren landscape so that they could be easily found. Their internal storage chambers would require to be sealed with considerable security/blocking measures to deter/prevent casual looting. You would not find such heavy security measures in a typical granary.
CJ: The Babylonian food storage and distribution centers were absolutely massive and very well fortified.
SC: I am sure they probably were – and understandably so. But they were also designed to be accessed regularly, again, unlike the pyramids.
CJ: Excepting the size of the three Giza pyramids, I guess the Zigs would be at least around the same scale as the rest. Most food storage has to be sealed otherwise it would not protect the produce from mould, rats or bugs. Defensive measures would be a wise precaution since the people turn to these stores in times of famine or crop failure.
SC: Absolutely agree.
CJ: You get why I am asking for distinguishing features. Are you trying to change the view of these other ancient massive food storage and distribution centers to RVs as well? Or do you think there was a dual purpose both for ongoing and in the event of a catastrophe?
SC: I am suggesting the pyramids were not meant to be accessed regularly. As I stated earlier – there is compelling evidence to suggest that whatever was stored in G1 was placed there from the top and not via any of the passages. This doesn’t seem like the most practical way to store things into a granary since there would be no easy way of accessing the contents once the pyramid was finished. The contents were effectively locked in with no easy access.
SC: There are numerous silos around Djoser’s pyramid complex. Also, there are vast storage galleries a short distance to the west of G2.
CJ: Ancient Egypt was the bread basket of the ancient world, this would require absolutely massive sets of storage facilities, surely?
SC: The large cache of wheat and barley seed found under the Step Pyramid (Saqqara) seem to have been perfectly preserved i.e. there does not seem to have been any damage by water ingress. Perhaps this is why all the Recovery Vaults were
placed on high plateaus to guard against the rising Nile. The tightly fitted casing stones would also have been protection against rising waters. There is also good evidence to suggest that the items stored in the GP were placed there from the top of the pyramid (i.e. before the KC ceiling was set in place.). The three granite blocking slabs in the Ante Chamber would essentially hermetically seal the Grand Gallery.
CJ: I think your case is strong for seed storage on the step structures, in particular ones with access.
SC: I think the evidence from that particular pyramid very strongly indicates the Recovery Vault function especially so considering the severe drought of the time; a drought that was so severe it prompted the famous ‘Famine Stele’.
CJ: These also have a food processing aspect in their original forms. I think less so in the case of Cheops. For a start the KC had 'air vents'/shafts or are you suggesting these were hermetically sealed. It would prove a huge leap of faith (maybe thats what you are saying) 'for the AE's to build that structure, put seeds in it and never look again.
SC: Different chambers would have held different things. There is no need to place seeds in the KC. I suggest the vast, sloping Grand Gallery was the principle storage vault in the GP. Heremetically sealed at the top and the bottom. The roof of the KC was probably raised via the misnamed ‘relieving chambers’ to ensure the gabled blocks did not smash through the Ante Chamber granite sealing blocks thereby compromising the cache by allowing air from the KC to pass into the GG. The three granite blocks of the Ante Chamber were not placed to prevent access to the KC but rather to minimise air-flow from the open KC air-shafts into the Grand Gallery. There is no such blocking stones from the so-called Queen’s Chamber – no need since no moisture-carrying air can flow from that chamber.
CJ: There were not piles of seeds found within the GP structures anyway. I hope you are not going to point to looters walking off with vases of seeds.
SC: Why not? The AEs themselves tell us they emptied them.
CJ: According to most engineers that have looked at the GP pyramids water was somehow involved at least to the level of the QC. This would be a disaster for food storage. The tightly fitted casing stones would keep the water inside the structure since these engineers posit it came from the well shaft within. Cladking has it rising to 60-70ft above the plateau as you know.
SC: The designers could only do their best in extraordinary circumstances to attempt to cover all bases. If their best failed then they probably would not know about it anyway. But what was their choice? Do nothing?
CJ: Sealed or tightly fitting granite boxes would be excellent for this storage task. Are you not turning to those found below ground for support?
Post Edited (03-Feb-12 19:23)