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Of course, we agree that it was allegory but where we disagree is upon what was the allegory based? If my model is accepted then the full description of islands and continent is explained including the island and city description and all falls into place. This is not seen in the conventional model. I agree that this appears a little odd in the context of his other writings but that does not mean that he did not use the model... which was already in existence.



I really don't see how you can possibly claim this, arbitarily projecting his proportional model onto celestial North doesn't make anything clearer...quite the oppositie.





If this was the case then his allegory relates to the constellation Hercules [please note, not based upon his celestial spheres model which is a different entity] which in terms of precession [which he demonstrated knowledge of with the outer spheres of his model] approaches...please note... from the west. The islands would then be other stars and the surrounding continent the milky way. The dating he gives would be consistent with flooding at Sunderland which is reinforced by the fact that this occurred before or beyond the Pillars of Hercules of the constellation in the the polar position. Some traditions such as the Chinese have the heavens supported by pillars



Quite apart from the problems we have discussed regarding lack of known capability and stated intent for doing such, comparing continents with the Milky Way and islands with stars just seems another entirely unevidenced and far fetched consideration.






... ’The pillars of heaven were broken; the Earth was shaken to its very foundations; the heavens sunk lower to the north; the Sun, Moon and stars changed their motions; the Earth fell to pieces, and the waters enclosed within its bosom burst forth with violence and overflowed it’....





There are traditions of four pillars supporting the Heavens but i don't think those are directly comparable to the Pillars of Hercules.






Hence' Pillars of Hercules' could feasibly be a reference to the constellation as the pillars of heaven, albeit here before they were forming the supports for heaven as the dating was for 9000 years before the time of Plato and Hercules was in the pole position later than than that, Tau Hercules was closest to the pole at 7600BC. Hence we now have a description of a flood before the Pillars of Hercules became the heavenly supports. The flood dated by Plato was before the pillars of Hercules or the time of Hercules in support position at the pole and in this context that would be an accurate description. Plato's stars and planets were attached by chains, or bonds or ties [dependent upon translation] to the universal axis which means a connection to the celestial pole.




The constellation of the kneeler of Hercules has never had any association with Pillars or gates of Heaven, there are two gates and associated sets of pillars known from ancient Sumerian times, but nowhere near Hercules, which due to it's location was never going to have such function.




ultimately our differences regarding the possible source of Atlantis boil down to the possibility I suggest being accepted or rejected. You reject it, with your rejection based upon conventional learning while I maintain it is possibility as the analysis does fit what Plato describes in detail.




Only in the sense that you have used Platos measurements is there any association, but you haven't properly demonstrated any justification or plausibility for doing so...anyone can project his measurements anywhere and say they appear to fit with anything.



Simple as that, accept or reject as a possibility. I have presented the evidence for and the against is valid only if Plato could not possibly have utilised traditional concepts from other regions, ideas which by his time would have been familiar to learned people across the developed areas. SO if you can prove that it is impossible for Plato to have used a model based upon knowledge from other regions then you win. Please note that I stated 'prove it is impossible for Plato to have used knowledge from other regions'. Because if this cannot be proven then my suggestion remains a distinct possibility. My analysis covers all the relevant descriptions of the Atlantis picture contained in the Atlantis narrative. The conventional model does not...unless it is admitted that this all a dream by Plato...but how can anyone prove what he may or may not have imagined?



There isn't even any knowledge from any other region that could have projected Platos model around celestial North with any accuracy, or that was aware of precession...





Hence as it cannot be proven that Plato could not have utilised information and concepts derived from other regions my analysis remains a possibility. The strength of that possibility is then dependent upon nothing more than opinion




There's nothing to suggest such knowledge was available or utilised...if there had been he'd have been sure to mention this.





So I reiterate my earlier statements in that neither of us can prove the case. I cannot prove it correct and you cannot prove it incorrect. It is a matter of opinion which is the greater possibility and as my model actually does give answers that cover the full Atlantis description I think that mine actually is more plausible than the conventional. It is a story of a flood and that story is told in other cultures in a fashion that is very similar to Plato's description as I have clearly described in earlier chapters of the book.

But of course, acceptance or otherwise is down to individual preference.





As is well understood there's no point trying to disprove negatives with no objective basis, i'll stick with probabilities not possibilities...



Morph

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Pole Stars and Floods 229 paxton 03-May-10 19:39
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 134 Harry Sivertsen 03-May-10 21:48
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 184 paxton 04-May-10 09:28
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 163 Harry Sivertsen 04-May-10 10:02
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 266 Morph 04-May-10 16:23
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 124 Harry Sivertsen 04-May-10 18:00
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 287 Morph 05-May-10 13:49
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 146 Harry Sivertsen 05-May-10 15:27
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 248 Morph 05-May-10 16:11
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 135 Harry Sivertsen 05-May-10 17:40
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 263 Morph 05-May-10 19:11
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 161 Harry Sivertsen 06-May-10 12:07
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 284 Morph 06-May-10 18:31
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 145 Harry Sivertsen 06-May-10 21:50
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 279 Morph 07-May-10 16:40
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 138 Harry Sivertsen 07-May-10 17:54
two questions 150 Warwick 07-May-10 18:18
Re: two questions 93 Harry Sivertsen 07-May-10 18:26
Re: two questions 152 Warwick 07-May-10 18:41
Re: two questions 134 Harry Sivertsen 07-May-10 22:51
Re: two questions 131 Warwick 07-May-10 23:24
Re: two questions 141 Harry Sivertsen 08-May-10 00:02
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 213 Morph 07-May-10 21:47
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 101 Harry Sivertsen 07-May-10 23:38
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 118 Warwick 07-May-10 23:51
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 148 Harry Sivertsen 08-May-10 00:03
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 286 Morph 08-May-10 13:34
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 113 Harry Sivertsen 08-May-10 14:03
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 102 Joe Atlantis 08-May-10 15:57
Mod Note 147 JonnyMcA 08-May-10 21:19
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 136 Harry Sivertsen 09-May-10 08:24
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 131 Joe Atlantis 09-May-10 22:03
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 114 Harry Sivertsen 09-May-10 23:01
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 137 Joe Atlantis 12-May-10 13:01
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 140 Harry Sivertsen 12-May-10 14:26
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 138 JonnyMcA 12-May-10 15:55
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 140 Harry Sivertsen 12-May-10 16:15
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 111 Joe Atlantis 13-May-10 14:45
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 135 Harry Sivertsen 13-May-10 15:17
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 144 Joe Atlantis 13-May-10 20:36
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 142 Harry Sivertsen 13-May-10 22:03
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 231 Morph 08-May-10 17:28
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 154 Harry Sivertsen 09-May-10 09:39
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 266 Morph 09-May-10 20:10
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 117 Harry Sivertsen 10-May-10 01:14
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 134 magisterchessmutt 10-May-10 14:34
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 143 Harry Sivertsen 10-May-10 17:04
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 269 Morph 10-May-10 16:22
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 154 Harry Sivertsen 10-May-10 19:44
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 286 Morph 12-May-10 16:05
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 175 Warwick 08-May-10 17:33
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 134 Harry Sivertsen 09-May-10 09:43
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 146 Harry Sivertsen 09-May-10 10:12
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 137 Warwick 13-May-10 17:40
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 127 Harry Sivertsen 13-May-10 18:00
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 138 Warwick 13-May-10 19:09
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 127 Harry Sivertsen 13-May-10 22:27
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 127 Warwick 14-May-10 15:53
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 85 Harry Sivertsen 14-May-10 19:52
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 124 Merrell 05-May-10 15:22
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 142 Harry Sivertsen 05-May-10 16:40
Re: Pole Stars and Floods 137 Warwick 08-May-10 00:52


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