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Eddie Larry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whoa Brian, this is a question for everybody!
> Does the concept of species have any meaning
> outside of a name for a collection of individuals.
> i.e.individual dogs and cats, and humans. I
> don’t think that ‘species’ has any
> independence outside of a concepts used to corral
> linguistically similar individual animals. Early
> Plato thought that there was a world of forms
> where they reside eternally. After he talked to
> Parmenides he learned that concepts were just
> names or tags for ideas. In other words, just
> words.

I agree with you in a philosophical sense but for scientific purposes it is efficient to be more specific
Science has organized organisms by a process of taxonomy that works pretty well. The definition of species, and I'm paraphrasing here, includes organisms that are able to pass on genes together or interbreed?

But I think Edmond is referring to how living things first came about. That is the causal effect he must answer unless I am misreading him. If there was a causal effect to the first origin of life then does that mean everything that came after is part of that same causal effect?

Again, I am only asking, if not by accident then what was that causal effect? And Edmond is also putting words in my mouth by insinuating I said species came about, "by accident." I can actually explain my theory about how living organisms arose but probably no one is interested.

What I am saying is that species change over time based on random mutations in the genome that are selected for based on changing environmental conditions. Most of these mutations are not advantageous but once in a while one is and is selected for because it helps the organism live and pass on those genomic changes. This can be demonstrated in any University laboratory using known mutagens.

When these advantages accumulate in the genome they can be passed on in aggregate as complicated gene systems that have arisen over many millions of years.

I will stand by that argument to any one who wants to provide another mechanism to evolution. As I have said the floor is yours. cjcalleman has finally provided a brief synopsis of his theory so I will read and take some time to respond when I get a moment.

Is that okay with everyone here on GHMB AoM board or am I not allowed to ask questions of make critique on a discussion board?

> Does anybody know how humans or anything else, the
> Universe, for example, came into existence? I
> mean like from nothing? Because that it what
> existence means, being here, being there, etc.
>
> Second, you seem to be using ‘accident’ to
> describe a situation we haven’t studied and
> analyzed. Without study and analysis , we should,
> as Susan states so often, say “we don’t
> know.” Humans have accidents when they do
> something that they don’t intend. Not sure
> ‘random’or ‘accident’ really applies to a
> situation that we don’t or can’t study.

I would agree with Susan that we don't know what caused all this to come into existence and we may never know. Science has gifted us with a set of tools for exploring the parts of the Universe that we can observe without purporting to ask the bigger question as they are as of yet unanswerable by any methodology we have yet devised.

So we build up a library of as much knowledge as we can show to be true through experiment. As of yet, there is absolutely no evidence that some intelligent force created the Universe or created species including us. Yet we can observe that there is a curious random probabilistic nature to the Universe that we see throughout nature and the cosmos. We can even observe this randomness in human society. Random probability is literally all around us. That doesn't mean there isn't something more, it just means that defining that something is beyond the realm of science and moves into something far more human and subjective that means different things to different people as you know by observing all the many religions and belief systems in the world.

>
Quote
Brian stated
>
> And it would be up to him to present evidence for
> that cause without the use of any ideology or
> dogma.
>
>
>
> This seems pretty unfair as you probably think
> anything he says is ideology or dogma!

I was referring to his statement that:

"A surprising number of lay people will also go along with such an ideology and dogmatically believe that the biological species came into existence by accident."

So he is accusing lay people of ideologically and dogmatically believing that the biological species came into existence by accident but I am being unfair in turning that around and asking him to provide an answer to what in his opinion caused species to come into existence without that same dogma or ideology?

Why is it that people accuse material science of ideology and dogma but never put their own beliefs up under that same microscope? Sure there are flaws in the why science is reviewed and funded but it is still the best tool we have for explaining the Universe on an evidence basis. Can Intelligent Design stand up to that same evidence based scrutiny with without ideology or dogma?

If you believe there is some creative force to the Universe that is fine. I have always said that there may well be but that one is not necessary to describe any of the material things we observe in the Universe.

But due to lack of any observable evidence for a creator or creative intelligence arguments for this are by definition going to be based on opinion and belief unless anyone can provide evidence otherwise.

cjcalleman and others say they have this evidence and insist that modern scientific evolution theory is wrong. I am going to question that assumption - that is all.

All I try to do is ask question and provide accurate information from the best science sources I can find. That appears to have offended some people. Why?

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 1329 Graham Hancock 07-Sep-21 11:10
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 140 greengirl5 07-Sep-21 21:53
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 133 greengirl5 07-Sep-21 22:59
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 149 Simon Prentis 08-Sep-21 11:49
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 103 Glass Jigsaw 10-Sep-21 21:13
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 98 Simon Prentis 11-Sep-21 21:51
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 94 Simon Prentis 08-Sep-21 11:42
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 145 cjcalleman 07-Sep-21 22:47
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 149 Simon Prentis 08-Sep-21 12:13
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 183 Susan Doris 08-Sep-21 00:58
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 119 Simon Prentis 08-Sep-21 13:37
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 150 Susan Doris 08-Sep-21 17:59
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 90 Simon Prentis 08-Sep-21 20:37
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 80 Susan Doris 09-Sep-21 05:13
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 141 cjcalleman 08-Sep-21 16:48
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 120 Simon Prentis 08-Sep-21 21:03
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 116 cjcalleman 09-Sep-21 00:15
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 123 Simon Prentis 09-Sep-21 00:48
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 163 greengirl5 09-Sep-21 04:53
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 79 Simon Prentis 09-Sep-21 18:26
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 81 cjcalleman 09-Sep-21 16:09
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 91 Simon Prentis 09-Sep-21 20:45
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 91 cjcalleman 10-Sep-21 17:22
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 124 Simon Prentis 10-Sep-21 20:34
Chemicals reacting 107 greengirl5 10-Sep-21 22:47
Re: Chemicals reacting 113 Eddie Larry 11-Sep-21 13:32
Re: Chemicals reacting 101 greengirl5 11-Sep-21 21:31
Re: Chemicals reacting 113 Simon Prentis 12-Sep-21 01:25
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 95 Susan Doris 11-Sep-21 05:59
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 81 Susan Doris 11-Sep-21 05:51
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 88 Simon Prentis 12-Sep-21 10:08
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 91 Susan Doris 13-Sep-21 05:07
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 120 Edmond 09-Sep-21 10:39
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 150 Eddie Larry 09-Sep-21 12:57
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 107 Simon Prentis 09-Sep-21 18:09
One original language 109 greengirl5 09-Sep-21 21:32
Re: One original language 118 Simon Prentis 09-Sep-21 23:56
Re: One original language - I just finished your book! 98 greengirl5 10-Sep-21 01:56
Re: One original language - I just finished your book! 87 Simon Prentis 10-Sep-21 17:47
Re: One original language - I just finished your book! 140 greengirl5 10-Sep-21 22:15
Re: One original language 91 cjcalleman 12-Sep-21 19:52
Re: One original language 103 Simon Prentis 13-Sep-21 01:13
Re: One original language 87 cjcalleman 13-Sep-21 17:10
Re: One original language 100 Simon Prentis 13-Sep-21 21:33
Re: One original language 79 Susan Doris 14-Sep-21 10:06
Re: One original language 99 greengirl5 14-Sep-21 13:01
Re: One original language 82 Susan Doris 14-Sep-21 13:09
Re: One original language 93 cjcalleman 14-Sep-21 15:31
Re: One original language 78 Simon Prentis 14-Sep-21 18:01
Clever animals, clever us! 86 greengirl5 14-Sep-21 22:33
Re: One original language 94 cjcalleman 15-Sep-21 17:57
Re: One original language 83 Susan Doris 16-Sep-21 05:23
Re: One original language 74 Eddie Larry 16-Sep-21 15:27
Re: One original language 123 Susan Doris 16-Sep-21 16:27
Re: One original language 83 cjcalleman 16-Sep-21 17:32
Re: One original language 90 Susan Doris 17-Sep-21 05:22
The tortoise and the hare 131 Eddie Larry 17-Sep-21 16:28
Re: The tortoise and the hare 73 cjcalleman 18-Sep-21 17:02
Re: The tortoise and the hare 65 Eddie Larry 18-Sep-21 18:03
Re: The tortoise and the hare 121 cjcalleman 18-Sep-21 19:42
Re: The tortoise and the hare 88 Susan Doris 19-Sep-21 04:37
Re: The tortoise and the hare 120 Sirius7237 19-Sep-21 05:10
Re: The tortoise and the hare 112 Susan Doris 19-Sep-21 08:36
Re: The tortoise and the hare 86 Sirius7237 19-Sep-21 14:18
Re: The tortoise and the hare 114 cjcalleman 19-Sep-21 19:05
Re: The tortoise and the hare 113 Sirius7237 19-Sep-21 22:52
Re: The tortoise and the hare 131 Glass Jigsaw 20-Sep-21 03:18
Re: The tortoise and the hare 73 Susan Doris 20-Sep-21 05:17
Respect for Simon 107 drrayeye 20-Sep-21 07:17
Re: Respect for Simon 107 Susan Doris 20-Sep-21 08:36
Re: Respect for Simon 110 Sirius7237 20-Sep-21 18:24
You just gish galloped again 87 drrayeye 20-Sep-21 18:28
Re: Just one example, Ray???????? 164 Sirius7237 20-Sep-21 18:37
Re: Still waiting, Ray???????? 104 Sirius7237 20-Sep-21 18:52
Re: Ray???????? 107 Sirius7237 20-Sep-21 18:52
Re: Still waiting, Ray???????? 99 Glass Jigsaw 21-Sep-21 23:04
Re: Still waiting, Ray???????? 125 Sirius7237 22-Sep-21 00:30
Re: Still waiting, Ray???????? 92 Susan Doris 22-Sep-21 05:01
Re: Just one example, Ray???????? 77 Susan Doris 21-Sep-21 05:44
Re: Just one example, Ray???????? 77 Sirius7237 21-Sep-21 16:04
Re: Just one example, Ray???????? 70 Susan Doris 21-Sep-21 16:38
Re: Just one example, Ray???????? 66 Aine 27-Sep-21 00:37
Re: Just one example, Ray???????? 62 Susan Doris 27-Sep-21 05:25
Re: Just one example, Ray???????? 63 Eddie Larry 27-Sep-21 18:27
Re: Just one example, Ray???????? 68 Aine 27-Sep-21 21:04
Re: Just one example, Ray???????? 63 Eddie Larry 28-Sep-21 02:34
Re: Just one example, Ray???????? 70 Sirius7237 28-Sep-21 03:24
Re: Just one example, Ray???????? 62 Aine 28-Sep-21 16:20
Re: Respect for Simon 81 Susan Doris 21-Sep-21 05:41
Re: The tortoise and the hare 127 Sirius7237 20-Sep-21 18:17
Re: The tortoise and the hare 67 Susan Doris 21-Sep-21 05:55
Re: The tortoise and the hare 92 Susan Doris 20-Sep-21 05:36
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 102 Edmond 20-Sep-21 12:18
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 115 Simon Prentis 20-Sep-21 14:03
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 90 cjcalleman 20-Sep-21 17:40
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 103 Simon Prentis 20-Sep-21 21:32
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 68 Susan Doris 21-Sep-21 07:24
Origin of language 101 Simon Prentis 22-Sep-21 01:08
Re: Origin of language 69 Susan Doris 22-Sep-21 05:11
Re: Origin of language 72 Simon Prentis 22-Sep-21 12:35
Re: Origin of language 66 Susan Doris 22-Sep-21 13:02
Re: Origin of language 59 Aine 27-Sep-21 00:19
Re: Origin of language 59 Susan Doris 27-Sep-21 05:36
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 62 Aine 27-Sep-21 01:04
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 62 Susan Doris 27-Sep-21 05:58
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 53 Aine 27-Sep-21 15:59
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 69 Susan Doris 27-Sep-21 18:01
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 61 Aine 27-Sep-21 21:09
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 71 cjcalleman 28-Sep-21 18:09
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 69 cjcalleman 21-Sep-21 18:37
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 103 drrayeye 21-Sep-21 23:42
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 72 cjcalleman 22-Sep-21 15:02
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 93 Simon Prentis 22-Sep-21 17:39
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 64 Susan Doris 23-Sep-21 05:49
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 86 Simon Prentis 23-Sep-21 11:43
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 107 cjcalleman 24-Sep-21 15:46
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 99 Simon Prentis 24-Sep-21 22:02
The structure of scientific revolutions 106 drrayeye 25-Sep-21 02:21
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions Catch 33 75 Edmond 25-Sep-21 09:51
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions Catch 33 80 Simon Prentis 25-Sep-21 11:44
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions Catch 33 90 Susan Doris 25-Sep-21 15:45
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions Catch 33 70 Edmond 27-Sep-21 07:24
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions Catch 33 66 Susan Doris 27-Sep-21 10:37
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions Catch 33 59 drrayeye 27-Sep-21 16:07
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions Catch 33 61 Susan Doris 27-Sep-21 18:04
Gives Simon perspective on alternative POV's 64 drrayeye 27-Sep-21 18:58
Re: Gives Simon perspective on alternative POV's 94 Susan Doris 28-Sep-21 05:09
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions Catch 33 61 Eddie Larry 27-Sep-21 16:34
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions Catch 33 64 Aine 27-Sep-21 17:31
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions Catch 33 56 Eddie Larry 27-Sep-21 17:54
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions Catch 33 57 Aine 27-Sep-21 21:14
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions Catch 33 61 Edmond 28-Sep-21 08:51
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions Catch 33 63 Eddie Larry 28-Sep-21 23:47
Jung 62 drrayeye 29-Sep-21 19:56
Re: Jung 60 Eddie Larry 29-Sep-21 23:02
archertypes 65 drrayeye 28-Sep-21 23:24
Re: archertypes 74 Susan Doris 29-Sep-21 05:30
Simon's book 55 drrayeye 29-Sep-21 19:44
Re: Simon's book 55 Susan Doris 30-Sep-21 05:34
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions 69 Simon Prentis 25-Sep-21 09:56
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions 74 drrayeye 25-Sep-21 18:18
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions 96 Sirius7237 25-Sep-21 18:27
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions 79 drrayeye 25-Sep-21 18:41
Re: Show one example of me gish galloping, ray - one example??. 77 Sirius7237 25-Sep-21 23:34
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions 115 Susan Doris 26-Sep-21 04:34
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions 116 Simon Prentis 25-Sep-21 18:57
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions 78 drrayeye 26-Sep-21 14:26
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions 60 Aine 26-Sep-21 23:50
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 91 Susan Doris 25-Sep-21 05:10
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 101 Susan Doris 22-Sep-21 05:21
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 69 Sirius7237 21-Sep-21 15:48
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 92 Sirius7237 20-Sep-21 18:33
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 107 Simon Prentis 20-Sep-21 21:49
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 67 Eddie Larry 20-Sep-21 23:16
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 67 Simon Prentis 20-Sep-21 23:45
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 66 Sirius7237 21-Sep-21 00:06
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 91 Simon Prentis 21-Sep-21 01:05
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 68 Susan Doris 21-Sep-21 05:40
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 79 Sirius7237 21-Sep-21 15:40
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 88 Susan Doris 20-Sep-21 14:19
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 70 Sirius7237 20-Sep-21 19:08
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 116 Eddie Larry 20-Sep-21 20:10
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 103 Sirius7237 20-Sep-21 21:04
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 112 Eddie Larry 20-Sep-21 21:24
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 103 Sirius7237 21-Sep-21 00:18
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 109 Eddie Larry 21-Sep-21 19:02
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 90 Eddie Larry 20-Sep-21 15:49
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 82 Edmond 21-Sep-21 07:39
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 81 Simon Prentis 21-Sep-21 10:36
some perspective 85 drrayeye 21-Sep-21 17:42
Is it just me... 116 Simon Prentis 22-Sep-21 00:44
Re: Is it just me... 80 Sirius7237 22-Sep-21 00:56
Re: Is it just me... 114 Simon Prentis 22-Sep-21 01:38
Re: Is it just me... 109 Sirius7237 22-Sep-21 04:04
Re: Is it just me... 118 Simon Prentis 22-Sep-21 11:44
Re: Is it just me... 70 Sirius7237 22-Sep-21 22:39
Re: Is it just me... 101 Simon Prentis 23-Sep-21 14:01
Re: Is it just me... 69 Susan Doris 23-Sep-21 15:05
Re: Is it just me... 85 Susan Doris 22-Sep-21 06:09
Terrific! 67 drrayeye 22-Sep-21 01:36
Re: Is it just me... 83 Susan Doris 22-Sep-21 06:00
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 90 Edmond 22-Sep-21 09:09
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 109 Susan Doris 22-Sep-21 13:21
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 98 Eddie Larry 21-Sep-21 17:47
Re: The tortoise and the hare 71 Aine 27-Sep-21 01:16
Re: The tortoise and the hare 67 Sirius7237 28-Sep-21 03:21
Re: The tortoise and the hare 60 Aine 28-Sep-21 16:23
Re: The tortoise and the hare with oxygen 75 Edmond 28-Sep-21 08:59
Re: The tortoise and the hare with oxygen 54 Sirius7237 29-Sep-21 02:31
Re: The tortoise and the hare with oxygen and time 90 Edmond 30-Sep-21 08:36
Re: The tortoise and the snowshoe hare 117 Sirius7237 01-Oct-21 18:10
Re: The tortoise and the hare 61 cjcalleman 28-Sep-21 18:01
Re: The tortoise and the hare 72 Susan Doris 19-Sep-21 04:50
Re: One original language 77 Susan Doris 14-Sep-21 10:16
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 127 drrayeye 09-Sep-21 19:22
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 98 Simon Prentis 09-Sep-21 21:08
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Do Re Mi 125 Edmond 10-Sep-21 09:37
Re: Do Re Mi 99 Simon Prentis 10-Sep-21 14:09
Re: Do Re Mi 106 Susan Doris 10-Sep-21 15:38
Re: Do Re Mi 97 Simon Prentis 10-Sep-21 18:08
Re: Do Re Mi 71 greengirl5 10-Sep-21 23:07
Re: Do Re Mi 87 Susan Doris 11-Sep-21 07:03
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 93 Christine 10-Sep-21 10:33
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 83 Simon Prentis 10-Sep-21 14:27
Re: Strange similarity? 106 Sirius7237 10-Sep-21 16:37
Re: Strange similarity? 118 Simon Prentis 10-Sep-21 21:01
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 104 Edmond 10-Sep-21 17:04
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 109 greengirl5 10-Sep-21 23:18
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 140 Sirius7237 11-Sep-21 15:57
Re: Scripts also use archetypal structure 122 Edmond 12-Sep-21 09:23
Re: Scripts also use archetypal structure 85 Susan Doris 12-Sep-21 09:56
Re: Indus and Harappan script as emblems 62 Edmond 28-Sep-21 09:34
The word became flesh 128 Edmond 11-Sep-21 08:26
Re: The word became flesh 95 Simon Prentis 12-Sep-21 11:59
Archetype is also in language 86 Edmond 14-Sep-21 10:23
Re: Archetype is also in language 121 Susan Doris 14-Sep-21 13:02
Thanks, Edmond 122 drrayeye 14-Sep-21 20:09
Re: Archetype is also in language 100 Simon Prentis 15-Sep-21 00:52
Archetype is also in language 79 Edmond 15-Sep-21 09:33
Re: Archetype is also in language 103 Susan Doris 15-Sep-21 15:05
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 82 Susan Doris 15-Sep-21 09:36
Swear words. 148 greengirl5 15-Sep-21 13:20
Re: Swear words. 72 Simon Prentis 24-Sep-21 10:04
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 66 Susan Doris 30-Sep-21 05:49


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