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I am reminded that some people are non verbal, maybe deaf or autistic or other. The deaf have their own hand language. Would it be worth finding out a bit about that and see how that has developed?
It is interesting that some apes, I think chimps? Can use deaf sign language. Any thoughts on that?

GG.


Simon Prentis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cjcalleman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Are you suggesting that languages
> > have emerged similarly according to some
> > neo-Darwinian process where people
> > begin by speaking some gibberish until after an
> > enormous number of accidental changes
> > in phoneme combinations they come to speak a
> > meaningful language?
>
> Not at all. I am suggesting that language emerged,
> randomly if you like, simply by building on the
> existing paradigm of animal communication -- which
> conveys meaning (in however limited a fashion)
> using sound. I go into this in more detail in
> Chapter 1 of my book, but as I see it the
> emergence of language was essentially about
> learning to use blocks of sound as digital units,
> thereby enabling a much larger number of objects
> to be tagged and referred to than would be
> possible to remember or distinguish if we had to
> keep inventing an endless number of unrelated
> analog sounds.
>
> And though it occurred much later, this is exactly
> what we see happening in real time with the
> emergence of written language, which -- whether in
> the Middle East, Mesoamerica or China -- started
> with analog picture writing (like emoji) and then
> inevitably passed through rebus to true digital
> representation when the memory burden became too
> great. Grammar would have only emerged much later,
> when there were enough 'words' to need a means of
> expressing relationships between them. But there's
> no gibberish involved. The actual sounds of the
> words used in any particular language may be
> largely random, but they would have always been
> used with meaningful intent.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09-Sep-21 04:56 by greengirl5.

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Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 1332 Graham Hancock 07-Sep-21 11:10
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 142 greengirl5 07-Sep-21 21:53
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 134 greengirl5 07-Sep-21 22:59
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 151 Simon Prentis 08-Sep-21 11:49
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 105 Glass Jigsaw 10-Sep-21 21:13
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 99 Simon Prentis 11-Sep-21 21:51
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 96 Simon Prentis 08-Sep-21 11:42
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 146 cjcalleman 07-Sep-21 22:47
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 150 Simon Prentis 08-Sep-21 12:13
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 185 Susan Doris 08-Sep-21 00:58
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 120 Simon Prentis 08-Sep-21 13:37
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 151 Susan Doris 08-Sep-21 17:59
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 91 Simon Prentis 08-Sep-21 20:37
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 81 Susan Doris 09-Sep-21 05:13
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 143 cjcalleman 08-Sep-21 16:48
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 122 Simon Prentis 08-Sep-21 21:03
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 117 cjcalleman 09-Sep-21 00:15
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 125 Simon Prentis 09-Sep-21 00:48
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 164 greengirl5 09-Sep-21 04:53
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 80 Simon Prentis 09-Sep-21 18:26
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 82 cjcalleman 09-Sep-21 16:09
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 91 Simon Prentis 09-Sep-21 20:45
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 91 cjcalleman 10-Sep-21 17:22
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 124 Simon Prentis 10-Sep-21 20:34
Chemicals reacting 107 greengirl5 10-Sep-21 22:47
Re: Chemicals reacting 114 Eddie Larry 11-Sep-21 13:32
Re: Chemicals reacting 102 greengirl5 11-Sep-21 21:31
Re: Chemicals reacting 114 Simon Prentis 12-Sep-21 01:25
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 95 Susan Doris 11-Sep-21 05:59
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 81 Susan Doris 11-Sep-21 05:51
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 89 Simon Prentis 12-Sep-21 10:08
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 91 Susan Doris 13-Sep-21 05:07
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 120 Edmond 09-Sep-21 10:39
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 150 Eddie Larry 09-Sep-21 12:57
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 107 Simon Prentis 09-Sep-21 18:09
One original language 109 greengirl5 09-Sep-21 21:32
Re: One original language 118 Simon Prentis 09-Sep-21 23:56
Re: One original language - I just finished your book! 98 greengirl5 10-Sep-21 01:56
Re: One original language - I just finished your book! 87 Simon Prentis 10-Sep-21 17:47
Re: One original language - I just finished your book! 141 greengirl5 10-Sep-21 22:15
Re: One original language 91 cjcalleman 12-Sep-21 19:52
Re: One original language 103 Simon Prentis 13-Sep-21 01:13
Re: One original language 88 cjcalleman 13-Sep-21 17:10
Re: One original language 101 Simon Prentis 13-Sep-21 21:33
Re: One original language 79 Susan Doris 14-Sep-21 10:06
Re: One original language 99 greengirl5 14-Sep-21 13:01
Re: One original language 83 Susan Doris 14-Sep-21 13:09
Re: One original language 94 cjcalleman 14-Sep-21 15:31
Re: One original language 78 Simon Prentis 14-Sep-21 18:01
Clever animals, clever us! 86 greengirl5 14-Sep-21 22:33
Re: One original language 94 cjcalleman 15-Sep-21 17:57
Re: One original language 84 Susan Doris 16-Sep-21 05:23
Re: One original language 74 Eddie Larry 16-Sep-21 15:27
Re: One original language 123 Susan Doris 16-Sep-21 16:27
Re: One original language 83 cjcalleman 16-Sep-21 17:32
Re: One original language 91 Susan Doris 17-Sep-21 05:22
The tortoise and the hare 131 Eddie Larry 17-Sep-21 16:28
Re: The tortoise and the hare 74 cjcalleman 18-Sep-21 17:02
Re: The tortoise and the hare 66 Eddie Larry 18-Sep-21 18:03
Re: The tortoise and the hare 122 cjcalleman 18-Sep-21 19:42
Re: The tortoise and the hare 88 Susan Doris 19-Sep-21 04:37
Re: The tortoise and the hare 120 Sirius7237 19-Sep-21 05:10
Re: The tortoise and the hare 112 Susan Doris 19-Sep-21 08:36
Re: The tortoise and the hare 87 Sirius7237 19-Sep-21 14:18
Re: The tortoise and the hare 114 cjcalleman 19-Sep-21 19:05
Re: The tortoise and the hare 113 Sirius7237 19-Sep-21 22:52
Re: The tortoise and the hare 131 Glass Jigsaw 20-Sep-21 03:18
Re: The tortoise and the hare 74 Susan Doris 20-Sep-21 05:17
Respect for Simon 107 drrayeye 20-Sep-21 07:17
Re: Respect for Simon 107 Susan Doris 20-Sep-21 08:36
Re: Respect for Simon 110 Sirius7237 20-Sep-21 18:24
You just gish galloped again 88 drrayeye 20-Sep-21 18:28
Re: Just one example, Ray???????? 165 Sirius7237 20-Sep-21 18:37
Re: Still waiting, Ray???????? 104 Sirius7237 20-Sep-21 18:52
Re: Ray???????? 108 Sirius7237 20-Sep-21 18:52
Re: Still waiting, Ray???????? 100 Glass Jigsaw 21-Sep-21 23:04
Re: Still waiting, Ray???????? 125 Sirius7237 22-Sep-21 00:30
Re: Still waiting, Ray???????? 92 Susan Doris 22-Sep-21 05:01
Re: Just one example, Ray???????? 77 Susan Doris 21-Sep-21 05:44
Re: Just one example, Ray???????? 77 Sirius7237 21-Sep-21 16:04
Re: Just one example, Ray???????? 71 Susan Doris 21-Sep-21 16:38
Re: Just one example, Ray???????? 66 Aine 27-Sep-21 00:37
Re: Just one example, Ray???????? 62 Susan Doris 27-Sep-21 05:25
Re: Just one example, Ray???????? 64 Eddie Larry 27-Sep-21 18:27
Re: Just one example, Ray???????? 68 Aine 27-Sep-21 21:04
Re: Just one example, Ray???????? 64 Eddie Larry 28-Sep-21 02:34
Re: Just one example, Ray???????? 70 Sirius7237 28-Sep-21 03:24
Re: Just one example, Ray???????? 62 Aine 28-Sep-21 16:20
Re: Respect for Simon 81 Susan Doris 21-Sep-21 05:41
Re: The tortoise and the hare 128 Sirius7237 20-Sep-21 18:17
Re: The tortoise and the hare 67 Susan Doris 21-Sep-21 05:55
Re: The tortoise and the hare 92 Susan Doris 20-Sep-21 05:36
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 103 Edmond 20-Sep-21 12:18
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 115 Simon Prentis 20-Sep-21 14:03
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 91 cjcalleman 20-Sep-21 17:40
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 104 Simon Prentis 20-Sep-21 21:32
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 68 Susan Doris 21-Sep-21 07:24
Origin of language 101 Simon Prentis 22-Sep-21 01:08
Re: Origin of language 69 Susan Doris 22-Sep-21 05:11
Re: Origin of language 72 Simon Prentis 22-Sep-21 12:35
Re: Origin of language 66 Susan Doris 22-Sep-21 13:02
Re: Origin of language 59 Aine 27-Sep-21 00:19
Re: Origin of language 59 Susan Doris 27-Sep-21 05:36
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 62 Aine 27-Sep-21 01:04
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 62 Susan Doris 27-Sep-21 05:58
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 54 Aine 27-Sep-21 15:59
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 69 Susan Doris 27-Sep-21 18:01
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 61 Aine 27-Sep-21 21:09
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 71 cjcalleman 28-Sep-21 18:09
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 70 cjcalleman 21-Sep-21 18:37
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 103 drrayeye 21-Sep-21 23:42
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 72 cjcalleman 22-Sep-21 15:02
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 93 Simon Prentis 22-Sep-21 17:39
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 64 Susan Doris 23-Sep-21 05:49
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 86 Simon Prentis 23-Sep-21 11:43
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 107 cjcalleman 24-Sep-21 15:46
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 99 Simon Prentis 24-Sep-21 22:02
The structure of scientific revolutions 106 drrayeye 25-Sep-21 02:21
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions Catch 33 75 Edmond 25-Sep-21 09:51
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions Catch 33 80 Simon Prentis 25-Sep-21 11:44
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions Catch 33 90 Susan Doris 25-Sep-21 15:45
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions Catch 33 71 Edmond 27-Sep-21 07:24
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions Catch 33 67 Susan Doris 27-Sep-21 10:37
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions Catch 33 59 drrayeye 27-Sep-21 16:07
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions Catch 33 61 Susan Doris 27-Sep-21 18:04
Gives Simon perspective on alternative POV's 64 drrayeye 27-Sep-21 18:58
Re: Gives Simon perspective on alternative POV's 94 Susan Doris 28-Sep-21 05:09
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions Catch 33 61 Eddie Larry 27-Sep-21 16:34
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions Catch 33 64 Aine 27-Sep-21 17:31
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions Catch 33 56 Eddie Larry 27-Sep-21 17:54
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions Catch 33 57 Aine 27-Sep-21 21:14
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions Catch 33 61 Edmond 28-Sep-21 08:51
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions Catch 33 63 Eddie Larry 28-Sep-21 23:47
Jung 62 drrayeye 29-Sep-21 19:56
Re: Jung 61 Eddie Larry 29-Sep-21 23:02
archertypes 65 drrayeye 28-Sep-21 23:24
Re: archertypes 74 Susan Doris 29-Sep-21 05:30
Simon's book 56 drrayeye 29-Sep-21 19:44
Re: Simon's book 55 Susan Doris 30-Sep-21 05:34
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions 69 Simon Prentis 25-Sep-21 09:56
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions 74 drrayeye 25-Sep-21 18:18
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions 96 Sirius7237 25-Sep-21 18:27
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions 80 drrayeye 25-Sep-21 18:41
Re: Show one example of me gish galloping, ray - one example??. 77 Sirius7237 25-Sep-21 23:34
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions 116 Susan Doris 26-Sep-21 04:34
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions 116 Simon Prentis 25-Sep-21 18:57
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions 78 drrayeye 26-Sep-21 14:26
Re: The structure of scientific revolutions 61 Aine 26-Sep-21 23:50
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 92 Susan Doris 25-Sep-21 05:10
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 101 Susan Doris 22-Sep-21 05:21
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 69 Sirius7237 21-Sep-21 15:48
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 93 Sirius7237 20-Sep-21 18:33
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 108 Simon Prentis 20-Sep-21 21:49
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 67 Eddie Larry 20-Sep-21 23:16
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 67 Simon Prentis 20-Sep-21 23:45
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 66 Sirius7237 21-Sep-21 00:06
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 92 Simon Prentis 21-Sep-21 01:05
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 68 Susan Doris 21-Sep-21 05:40
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 79 Sirius7237 21-Sep-21 15:40
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 88 Susan Doris 20-Sep-21 14:19
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 70 Sirius7237 20-Sep-21 19:08
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 116 Eddie Larry 20-Sep-21 20:10
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 104 Sirius7237 20-Sep-21 21:04
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 112 Eddie Larry 20-Sep-21 21:24
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 103 Sirius7237 21-Sep-21 00:18
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 109 Eddie Larry 21-Sep-21 19:02
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 90 Eddie Larry 20-Sep-21 15:49
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 83 Edmond 21-Sep-21 07:39
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 81 Simon Prentis 21-Sep-21 10:36
some perspective 86 drrayeye 21-Sep-21 17:42
Is it just me... 116 Simon Prentis 22-Sep-21 00:44
Re: Is it just me... 80 Sirius7237 22-Sep-21 00:56
Re: Is it just me... 114 Simon Prentis 22-Sep-21 01:38
Re: Is it just me... 109 Sirius7237 22-Sep-21 04:04
Re: Is it just me... 118 Simon Prentis 22-Sep-21 11:44
Re: Is it just me... 70 Sirius7237 22-Sep-21 22:39
Re: Is it just me... 101 Simon Prentis 23-Sep-21 14:01
Re: Is it just me... 69 Susan Doris 23-Sep-21 15:05
Re: Is it just me... 86 Susan Doris 22-Sep-21 06:09
Terrific! 67 drrayeye 22-Sep-21 01:36
Re: Is it just me... 83 Susan Doris 22-Sep-21 06:00
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 90 Edmond 22-Sep-21 09:09
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 109 Susan Doris 22-Sep-21 13:21
Re: The tortoise and the hare, evolutionary paradigm problems 98 Eddie Larry 21-Sep-21 17:47
Re: The tortoise and the hare 72 Aine 27-Sep-21 01:16
Re: The tortoise and the hare 67 Sirius7237 28-Sep-21 03:21
Re: The tortoise and the hare 60 Aine 28-Sep-21 16:23
Re: The tortoise and the hare with oxygen 76 Edmond 28-Sep-21 08:59
Re: The tortoise and the hare with oxygen 54 Sirius7237 29-Sep-21 02:31
Re: The tortoise and the hare with oxygen and time 90 Edmond 30-Sep-21 08:36
Re: The tortoise and the snowshoe hare 117 Sirius7237 01-Oct-21 18:10
Re: The tortoise and the hare 61 cjcalleman 28-Sep-21 18:01
Re: The tortoise and the hare 72 Susan Doris 19-Sep-21 04:50
Re: One original language 77 Susan Doris 14-Sep-21 10:16
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 127 drrayeye 09-Sep-21 19:22
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 98 Simon Prentis 09-Sep-21 21:08
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Do Re Mi 126 Edmond 10-Sep-21 09:37
Re: Do Re Mi 99 Simon Prentis 10-Sep-21 14:09
Re: Do Re Mi 106 Susan Doris 10-Sep-21 15:38
Re: Do Re Mi 97 Simon Prentis 10-Sep-21 18:08
Re: Do Re Mi 72 greengirl5 10-Sep-21 23:07
Re: Do Re Mi 87 Susan Doris 11-Sep-21 07:03
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 93 Christine 10-Sep-21 10:33
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 84 Simon Prentis 10-Sep-21 14:27
Re: Strange similarity? 107 Sirius7237 10-Sep-21 16:37
Re: Strange similarity? 120 Simon Prentis 10-Sep-21 21:01
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 104 Edmond 10-Sep-21 17:04
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 109 greengirl5 10-Sep-21 23:18
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 140 Sirius7237 11-Sep-21 15:57
Re: Scripts also use archetypal structure 122 Edmond 12-Sep-21 09:23
Re: Scripts also use archetypal structure 85 Susan Doris 12-Sep-21 09:56
Re: Indus and Harappan script as emblems 63 Edmond 28-Sep-21 09:34
The word became flesh 129 Edmond 11-Sep-21 08:26
Re: The word became flesh 95 Simon Prentis 12-Sep-21 11:59
Archetype is also in language 86 Edmond 14-Sep-21 10:23
Re: Archetype is also in language 121 Susan Doris 14-Sep-21 13:02
Thanks, Edmond 123 drrayeye 14-Sep-21 20:09
Re: Archetype is also in language 101 Simon Prentis 15-Sep-21 00:52
Archetype is also in language 79 Edmond 15-Sep-21 09:33
Re: Archetype is also in language 104 Susan Doris 15-Sep-21 15:05
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 82 Susan Doris 15-Sep-21 09:36
Swear words. 148 greengirl5 15-Sep-21 13:20
Re: Swear words. 72 Simon Prentis 24-Sep-21 10:04
Re: Welcome to Simon Prentis Author of the Month for September 2021 66 Susan Doris 30-Sep-21 05:49


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