> Don't worry seasmith, please feel free to
> "highjack" the thread any time!
> This is interesting. In the Greek literature
> however, according to Plutarch, Osiris is
> considered to be the Greek god Dionysus Zagreus.
> Ιn fact, Plutarch informs us that Osiris is the
> son of Kronos and Rhea. So, there is a connection
> of Osiris with Kronos, but an indirect one.
Yes, I believe the historians still have valuable clues for us, even if there seems to be conflict in their accounts sometimes.
There may not actually be conflict, but rather if mythological events describe astronomical events which can be of paramount importance to seafarers and navigators, the stories or associations can change as the astronomical events change.
It may be easy to make what may be a mistake by mistaking associations that come from temporary events with associations that should be enduring. Perhaps it would be a mistake to always associate Apollo with a dolphin because of Delphi, but perhaps the association is valid anytime a reference is made to events which take place when the Sun (Apollo) is in Pisces (Dolphin). I'm not certain if that's actually correct, but I hope it serves for the purpose of illustration.
I thought I would bring that up because I think there are several posts in this thread at least that seem to lament that mythology can be a very confusing business. If there's anything I think I might have learned from my mistakes trying to find stronger connections between myth and astronomy, it's not to underestimate the breadth of inventories of celestial events that ancient people might have been determined to commemorate.
When I attempted to be more serious with Mayan calendar and mythology studies only a few months ago, I was still imagining the authors of myths and symbols might be content to describe for example a solar eclipse. I have been seriously studying the surviving Mexican Codices for some weeks now and again and again the structure and complexity suggest that it may be more likely that they would not only mention that a solar eclipse took place, but provide a detailed description of what other major solar system objects or significant constellations were doing at the same time or on the same day. In other words, such complex descriptions as we see may easily refer to complex events.
This might help to explain in general the complexity of myths, their variability, and apparent conflicts in different accounts and historical references.
Also since some events appear different from different locations, the stories describing events may automatically have some inherent differences in different locations.
For that, though, even though there are a number of posts in this thread referring to astronomical themes or identification of deity figures, I would say to keep onward in that direction, and also to try to be as aware as possible of just how many different kinds of events can take place in the sky. To the ancients, every time one object in the solar system got in the way of another, it may have been a noteworthy event, rather than attention only having been paid to things as dramatic as solar or lunar eclipses. Planetary retrogrades, planets seemingly stopping and then travelling backwards, seem to me to have been prominent among what was considered dramatic and noteworthy.
Such references seem to turn up everywhere ever since I started out making a new effort to understand ancient astronomy symbolism when it seemed like Susan Milbrath might actually be making a little real progress, whereas before that I'd given up on every being able to understand what the Codices were referring to. I think I know a number of the "words" for astronomical objects now but I still need to learn how to make "sentences" of them correctly.
I would have theories that could actually be tested as long as reliable data is available for what was taking place on a certain indicated date, but I am still very intimidated about trying to work out absolute correlations because of how few researchers seem to be able to agree on these things, even what a particular section of one the Codices actually refers to. I don't even know how that is possible when working with clearly indicated dates. Sometimes it tries to give the feeling I am bound to fail if even the brightest cannot seem to succeed, but maybe some of the things I think I see in the materials will benefit the perspectives of others?
I don't know it if might be of interest to you, Alexandros, but at the moment I am still experimenting (I have an astronomy thread on the Mysteries Forum here) with the idea that ancient American symbolism or myth, the correct associations of several deity characters with symbols may be very much as it is with Greco-Roman mythology - Mars (and not Venus as is popularly thought) as the "planet of war" or of fire and Mercury being represented by a staff, caduceus or torch. So far this seems as if it may be making sensible statements to read things that way although it must still be too soon to be sure.
I like to believe, at least, that it beings to accumulate as evidence for a seafaring ancient global culture if when we get stuck trying to understand one culture or another, we may be able to successfully turn to another culture on the other side of the world for assistance.
I'm also seeing a number of hints that ancient people might have been considerably more skilled in optics for stargazing purposes than they usually get credited for. For me that fits nicely with your premises that ancient people, although living simpler lives, may still have lived lives surprisingly like our own. I like your emphasis on their having worn shoes! It must be some kind of statement about underestimating our ancestors that that seems to benefit so from emphasis. I also like to think they were more rational, just like ourselves.
I think that the study of astronomy teaches that even though the planets exhibit complex motions, ultimately they are seen to have the predictable periodicity of inanimate objects rather than being deities in the sky. It might even be that the cooperation it might take to master astronomy brought people together even before agriculture did. It's good to see people working with larger historical time frames like 40,000 BC because so much can happen in that amount of time.
rodz and DavidK Ancient Measures - Jim Alison on the Remen [grahamhancock.com] - Jim Wakefield From The Rollrights to Stonehenge
Peter Harris Visions of Time - Megalithic Foot - Megalithic Portal - Geoff Bath An Alternative Route to the Megalithic Yard
Mercurial Mercurial Pathways - Glanymor1948 Skhane.org - Jiri Mruzek Prehistoric Science
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10-Aug-21 22:30 by thinkitover.