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Hello Rebecca

Given this post's proximity to our most recent exchange, where I had asked you to show me the part of your parody essay that you had referred to, so I could take a comparative visual test, I will assume that your reply here to Martin zeroes in on what you were referring to.

So, let me share my impressions, while mentioning that prior to this month I had no idea what an ibex was. If you'd said that it was one of those small boxes that people used to keep on their desks, of clients phone numbers and addresses, I would have believed you.

Another thing, is that I really don't know how this part of this month's discussion has evolved. I've seen mention of ibexes, felines and square butts, but I haven't dug deeper.

Let's start with the image on the right. Given the nature of this discussion, I will answer to that image two ways, as I think that only one way is likely to get much attention, and that is...

1/2 -Does the "feline" carving image on the right look like the corresponding feline silhouette image?

I would say yes, most definitely. While I can't know what the artist was really trying to make, I can say that I am 'completely certain' that the artist wanted to carve a feline. The only thing I can foresee that might change my opinion, is if somebody later shows another animal that also looks quite a bit like the image. That certainly wouldn't rule out the feline interpretation, which would remain a very strong possibility.

2/2 -Here's the likely understated question: Would I consider it reasonable, for a person to say that it is highly, highly unlikely or impossible that the second image is meant to represent a feline? My answer is no in either case. I don't consider them legitimate conclusions.

As for the second image, on the left...

1/2 Does the image on the left look like the corresponding ibex silhouette?

I would say yes, it does quite a bit. The body is in decent proportion. The head and horns are also complementary. On second glance however, I see a problem with the horn angle relative to the head. If the head is looking down, the silhouette's horn would point up, rather than along the back, as one sees in the carving. I can see why this would be grounds for some to say it can't be an ibex. I wouldn't though, because I think the juxtapositioning may be stylistic and/or an attempt to economize the "ibex's" use of space. As for the former, I am reminded of those human hands on the two main stelas. Isn't there quite a bit of such "stylism" at GT? Each such example would further legitimize the possibility that the "ibex's" horns were similarly (stylistically) positioned.

As for the 'square butt', I don't see this is as a problem. In my view - and again, I haven't followed others' feedback - I would say that it is more likely that this area was more about the animals' two hindquarters. Moreover, the animal seems to be in a jumping position - that ram thing - as indicated by the bent front-quarters, in which case we can expect to see a relatively square hindquarter positioning.

That said, the carving on the back legs seem to be less elaborate than the rest of the image, so I can see why some people might not visualize legs in this region of the image.

2/2 Would I consider it reasonable, for a person to say that it is highly, highly unlikely or impossible that the second image is meant to represent an ibex?

I certainly would NOT say it is reasonable to say that this interpretation is impossible. There's enough correspondence to make this interpretation very reasonable, and the question of what seems to be under dispute - the so-called "square butt" - is an arbitrary interpretation, imo, I'm not sure we're looking at a butt, rather than coiled hind legs, or even seated hind legs.

As for this being "highly highly unlikely," at present I would say that this position is still too strong. The carved image looks too much like the ibex silhouette to be dismissed, categorically. Again, however, if others can show other information that somehow supports this interpretation, I would be open. For now though, I would say that this conclusion is too strong, given the overall quality of the match.

The bottom line for me is this: if someone were to say to me, Poster Boy, do you think the carving on the left represents a good approximation of the ibex silhouette? I would say, yes it does. Quite. Could it be something else? Certainly, but I really don't know. For now, I can see why others might say it looks a lot like an ibex, if that's really what the silhouette represents.

To summarize, I really don't know what the background to this point is, and I would imagine that Martin's says the image on the left is an ibex and that you, Rebecca, strongly feel otherwise.

But the more significant point you made, if I followed you correctly, was that a significant proportion of academics disagree with Martin on this point, and perhaps to the degree where they found the ibex interpretation truly unreasonable (?) I would agree that this is a more significant point, in the sense that it relies on the same consensus thinking that Martin relies on in his 'test'. Still, I wonder if this audience is sufficient.

Maybe it would be better to take the test to Reddit, where others can decide, with 'fresh' rather than trained-conditioned eyes, if it really is reasonable OR unreasonable to consider the pairing on the left an acceptable match. If the answer to the second question turns out to be yes, then a perhaps more significant majority thinks that such an interpretation should not be ruled out.

Considering this pairing alone, to the exclusion of all other information, would be most ideal I think. I also think it would be best if BOTH questions are asked.

(Cellphone texting is hard)



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 21-Aug-19 19:57 by Poster Boy.

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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 646 PB Bytes 11-Aug-19 15:56
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 543 Corpuscles 12-Aug-19 05:58
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Fall of a thousand suns 544 greengirl5 10-Aug-19 02:02
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Re: Little stone in the middle of nowhere 528 PB Bytes 15-Aug-19 23:19
Re: Little stone in the middle of nowhere 517 greengirl5 15-Aug-19 23:54
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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 624 Martinsw1 14-Aug-19 08:44
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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 585 Martinsw1 19-Aug-19 08:24
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 538 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 12:54
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Re: coming from a casual reader 533 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 20:18
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Re: 280 million years 516 greengirl5 21-Aug-19 06:41
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Re: coming from a casual reader 482 drrayeye 20-Aug-19 17:46
Re: coming from a casual reader 502 PB Bytes 20-Aug-19 18:06
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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 503 Rebecca Bradley 20-Aug-19 07:53
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 504 Susan Doris 20-Aug-19 10:23
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 500 PB Bytes 20-Aug-19 19:36
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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 571 Rebecca Bradley 20-Aug-19 22:55
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 557 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 23:16
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The Test? 533 PB Bytes 21-Aug-19 15:59
Re: The Test? 513 Corpuscles 21-Aug-19 21:25
Re: The Test? 498 PB Bytes 21-Aug-19 21:58
Re: The Test? 531 Barbelo 21-Aug-19 22:05
Re: The Test? 513 Corpuscles 21-Aug-19 22:52
Re: The Test? 520 Rebecca Bradley 22-Aug-19 05:31
Re: The Test? 519 Barbelo 22-Aug-19 05:48
Re: The Test? 529 PB Bytes 22-Aug-19 14:21
Revising... The Test? 534 PB Bytes 22-Aug-19 16:48
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Re: animal anatomy lesson #1 561 PB Bytes 22-Aug-19 19:06
Re: animal anatomy 528 hendrik dirker 24-Aug-19 06:09
Re: animal anatomy 656 PB Bytes 24-Aug-19 16:25
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Re: Revising... The Test? 506 PB Bytes 24-Aug-19 15:30
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Re: Revising... The Test? 499 PB Bytes 31-Aug-19 17:08
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Re: Revising... The Test? 490 PB Bytes 31-Aug-19 19:52
Re: Revising... The Test? 495 Rebecca Bradley 01-Sep-19 04:03
Re: Revising... The Test? 474 PB Bytes 01-Sep-19 15:30
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Re: Research design perspective 497 Eddie Larry 14-Aug-19 22:43
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Re: Research design perspective 509 PB Bytes 17-Aug-19 15:43
Re: Research design perspective 521 drrayeye 17-Aug-19 17:25
Re: Research design perspective 518 Martinsw1 18-Aug-19 08:00
Re: Research design perspective 501 drrayeye 18-Aug-19 21:42
Re: Research design perspective 522 Martinsw1 19-Aug-19 08:32
Re: Research design perspective 514 Corpuscles 19-Aug-19 22:32
Not Science, No Proof 549 Barbelo 18-Aug-19 22:44
Re: Not Science, No Proof 557 Martinsw1 19-Aug-19 08:35
Pomposity Levels Not Exceeded On This Board 519 Barbelo 19-Aug-19 11:03
Re: Pomposity Levels Not Exceeded On This Board 551 Martinsw1 20-Aug-19 08:58
Re: Pomposity Levels Not Exceeded On This Board 533 Barbelo 20-Aug-19 12:00
Earth orbital antics 554 hendrik dirker 20-Aug-19 18:39
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 588 Martinsw1 11-Aug-19 19:56
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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 577 Rebecca Bradley 12-Aug-19 06:42
individual subjectivity and objective consensus 597 PB Bytes 12-Aug-19 16:59
Re: individual subjectivity and objective consensus 551 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 10:40
Other thoughts. 536 PB Bytes 13-Aug-19 16:32
Re: Other thoughts. 523 drrayeye 13-Aug-19 17:48
Re: Other thoughts. 542 PB Bytes 13-Aug-19 18:42
Re: Other thoughts. 534 drrayeye 13-Aug-19 19:06
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Re: Reading the book 545 PB Bytes 14-Aug-19 03:11
Re: Other thoughts. 538 Corpuscles 14-Aug-19 01:20
Re: Other thoughts. 534 PB Bytes 14-Aug-19 02:51
Re: Other thoughts. 530 Eddie Larry 14-Aug-19 03:35
Re: Other thoughts. 511 PB Bytes 14-Aug-19 03:53
Re: Other thoughts. 525 Eddie Larry 14-Aug-19 17:54
Re: Other thoughts. 519 PB Bytes 14-Aug-19 19:02
Re: Other thoughts. 533 Eddie Larry 14-Aug-19 19:32
Re: Other thoughts. 514 PB Bytes 14-Aug-19 20:24
Re: Other thoughts. 544 Corpuscles 14-Aug-19 04:49
Re: Other thoughts. 536 Corpuscles 14-Aug-19 05:13
Re: Other thoughts. 531 PB Bytes 14-Aug-19 14:35
Dr. Sweatman, in case you didn't know... 602 PB Bytes 09-Aug-19 15:56
The Zodiac 536 hendrik dirker 10-Aug-19 12:00
Re: The Zodiac 567 PB Bytes 10-Aug-19 14:58
Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 527 greengirl5 10-Aug-19 23:15
Re: Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 514 PB Bytes 10-Aug-19 23:52
Re: Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 528 greengirl5 11-Aug-19 00:07
Re: Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 523 PB Bytes 11-Aug-19 00:20
Re: Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 536 greengirl5 11-Aug-19 00:26
Just been outside to see Scorpius 536 greengirl5 11-Aug-19 11:40
Re: Just been outside to see Scorpius 519 greengirl5 11-Aug-19 12:51
Re: Just been outside to see Scorpius 551 Susan Doris 11-Aug-19 12:53
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 555 PB Bytes 12-Aug-19 14:18
Regarding the wider picture down the line 543 PB Bytes 14-Aug-19 16:47
Re: Regarding the wider picture down the line 597 Martinsw1 15-Aug-19 07:14
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 585 Corpuscles 21-Aug-19 23:13
A new question 529 PB Bytes 01-Sep-19 17:25
Re: A new question 1082 Rebecca Bradley 02-Sep-19 04:20


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