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Hello Rebecca

Given this post's proximity to our most recent exchange, where I had asked you to show me the part of your parody essay that you had referred to, so I could take a comparative visual test, I will assume that your reply here to Martin zeroes in on what you were referring to.

So, let me share my impressions, while mentioning that prior to this month I had no idea what an ibex was. If you'd said that it was one of those small boxes that people used to keep on their desks, of clients phone numbers and addresses, I would have believed you.

Another thing, is that I really don't know how this part of this month's discussion has evolved. I've seen mention of ibexes, felines and square butts, but I haven't dug deeper.

Let's start with the image on the right. Given the nature of this discussion, I will answer to that image two ways, as I think that only one way is likely to get much attention, and that is...

1/2 -Does the "feline" carving image on the right look like the corresponding feline silhouette image?

I would say yes, most definitely. While I can't know what the artist was really trying to make, I can say that I am 'completely certain' that the artist wanted to carve a feline. The only thing I can foresee that might change my opinion, is if somebody later shows another animal that also looks quite a bit like the image. That certainly wouldn't rule out the feline interpretation, which would remain a very strong possibility.

2/2 -Here's the likely understated question: Would I consider it reasonable, for a person to say that it is highly, highly unlikely or impossible that the second image is meant to represent a feline? My answer is no in either case. I don't consider them legitimate conclusions.

As for the second image, on the left...

1/2 Does the image on the left look like the corresponding ibex silhouette?

I would say yes, it does quite a bit. The body is in decent proportion. The head and horns are also complementary. On second glance however, I see a problem with the horn angle relative to the head. If the head is looking down, the silhouette's horn would point up, rather than along the back, as one sees in the carving. I can see why this would be grounds for some to say it can't be an ibex. I wouldn't though, because I think the juxtapositioning may be stylistic and/or an attempt to economize the "ibex's" use of space. As for the former, I am reminded of those human hands on the two main stelas. Isn't there quite a bit of such "stylism" at GT? Each such example would further legitimize the possibility that the "ibex's" horns were similarly (stylistically) positioned.

As for the 'square butt', I don't see this is as a problem. In my view - and again, I haven't followed others' feedback - I would say that it is more likely that this area was more about the animals' two hindquarters. Moreover, the animal seems to be in a jumping position - that ram thing - as indicated by the bent front-quarters, in which case we can expect to see a relatively square hindquarter positioning.

That said, the carving on the back legs seem to be less elaborate than the rest of the image, so I can see why some people might not visualize legs in this region of the image.

2/2 Would I consider it reasonable, for a person to say that it is highly, highly unlikely or impossible that the second image is meant to represent an ibex?

I certainly would NOT say it is reasonable to say that this interpretation is impossible. There's enough correspondence to make this interpretation very reasonable, and the question of what seems to be under dispute - the so-called "square butt" - is an arbitrary interpretation, imo, I'm not sure we're looking at a butt, rather than coiled hind legs, or even seated hind legs.

As for this being "highly highly unlikely," at present I would say that this position is still too strong. The carved image looks too much like the ibex silhouette to be dismissed, categorically. Again, however, if others can show other information that somehow supports this interpretation, I would be open. For now though, I would say that this conclusion is too strong, given the overall quality of the match.

The bottom line for me is this: if someone were to say to me, Poster Boy, do you think the carving on the left represents a good approximation of the ibex silhouette? I would say, yes it does. Quite. Could it be something else? Certainly, but I really don't know. For now, I can see why others might say it looks a lot like an ibex, if that's really what the silhouette represents.

To summarize, I really don't know what the background to this point is, and I would imagine that Martin's says the image on the left is an ibex and that you, Rebecca, strongly feel otherwise.

But the more significant point you made, if I followed you correctly, was that a significant proportion of academics disagree with Martin on this point, and perhaps to the degree where they found the ibex interpretation truly unreasonable (?) I would agree that this is a more significant point, in the sense that it relies on the same consensus thinking that Martin relies on in his 'test'. Still, I wonder if this audience is sufficient.

Maybe it would be better to take the test to Reddit, where others can decide, with 'fresh' rather than trained-conditioned eyes, if it really is reasonable OR unreasonable to consider the pairing on the left an acceptable match. If the answer to the second question turns out to be yes, then a perhaps more significant majority thinks that such an interpretation should not be ruled out.

Considering this pairing alone, to the exclusion of all other information, would be most ideal I think. I also think it would be best if BOTH questions are asked.

(Cellphone texting is hard)



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 21-Aug-19 19:57 by Poster Boy.

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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 371 Corpuscles 10-Aug-19 22:37
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 368 PB Bytes 10-Aug-19 23:05
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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 379 Corpuscles 12-Aug-19 05:58
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Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 371 PB Bytes 14-Aug-19 00:12
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 372 Barbelo 14-Aug-19 04:03
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 369 PB Bytes 14-Aug-19 14:26
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 367 Barbelo 14-Aug-19 21:09
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Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 400 PB Bytes 15-Aug-19 16:49
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 368 Eddie Larry 15-Aug-19 18:35
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Re: Little stone in the middle of nowhere 360 PB Bytes 15-Aug-19 23:19
Re: Little stone in the middle of nowhere 352 greengirl5 15-Aug-19 23:54
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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 372 PB Bytes 14-Aug-19 14:09
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 394 Rebecca Bradley 15-Aug-19 04:36
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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 388 Rebecca Bradley 18-Aug-19 07:42
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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 407 Martinsw1 19-Aug-19 08:24
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 366 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 12:54
coming from a casual reader 374 drrayeye 20-Aug-19 14:20
Re: coming from a casual reader 364 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 15:57
Re: coming from a casual reader 350 drrayeye 20-Aug-19 17:41
Re: coming from a casual reader 364 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 20:18
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Re: 280 million years 354 greengirl5 21-Aug-19 06:41
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Re: coming from a casual reader 348 PB Bytes 20-Aug-19 16:32
Re: coming from a casual reader 327 drrayeye 20-Aug-19 17:46
Re: coming from a casual reader 350 PB Bytes 20-Aug-19 18:06
Re: coming from a casual reader 363 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 20:33
Re: coming from a casual reader 345 PB Bytes 20-Aug-19 22:29
Re: coming from a casual reader 351 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 22:52
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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 379 Rebecca Bradley 18-Aug-19 08:48
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 354 PB Bytes 18-Aug-19 16:38
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 347 Rebecca Bradley 20-Aug-19 07:53
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 352 Susan Doris 20-Aug-19 10:23
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 343 PB Bytes 20-Aug-19 19:36
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 354 Martinsw1 20-Aug-19 08:17
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 371 Rebecca Bradley 20-Aug-19 22:55
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 395 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 23:16
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 397 Rebecca Bradley 22-Aug-19 06:48
The Test? 373 PB Bytes 21-Aug-19 15:59
Re: The Test? 357 Corpuscles 21-Aug-19 21:25
Re: The Test? 344 PB Bytes 21-Aug-19 21:58
Re: The Test? 362 Barbelo 21-Aug-19 22:05
Re: The Test? 360 Corpuscles 21-Aug-19 22:52
Re: The Test? 365 Rebecca Bradley 22-Aug-19 05:31
Re: The Test? 350 Barbelo 22-Aug-19 05:48
Re: The Test? 362 PB Bytes 22-Aug-19 14:21
Revising... The Test? 376 PB Bytes 22-Aug-19 16:48
animal anatomy lesson #1 379 hendrik dirker 22-Aug-19 19:02
Re: animal anatomy lesson #1 397 PB Bytes 22-Aug-19 19:06
Re: animal anatomy 371 hendrik dirker 24-Aug-19 06:09
Re: animal anatomy 385 PB Bytes 24-Aug-19 16:25
Re: Revising... The Test? 358 Rebecca Bradley 24-Aug-19 07:22
Re: Revising... The Test? 345 PB Bytes 24-Aug-19 15:30
Re: Revising... The Test? 340 Rebecca Bradley 31-Aug-19 06:03
Re: Revising... The Test? 340 PB Bytes 31-Aug-19 17:08
Re: Revising... The Test? 328 Eddie Larry 31-Aug-19 17:32
Re: Revising... The Test? 334 PB Bytes 31-Aug-19 19:52
Re: Revising... The Test? 334 Rebecca Bradley 01-Sep-19 04:03
Re: Revising... The Test? 317 PB Bytes 01-Sep-19 15:30
Re: Revising... The Test? 337 Eddie Larry 01-Sep-19 15:45
Re: Revising... The Test? 345 Rebecca Bradley 01-Sep-19 04:15
Research design perspective 366 drrayeye 14-Aug-19 22:21
Re: Research design perspective 336 Eddie Larry 14-Aug-19 22:43
Re: Research design perspective 360 Susan Doris 15-Aug-19 05:01
Re: Research design perspective 379 Martinsw1 15-Aug-19 07:08
Re: Research design perspective 354 PB Bytes 17-Aug-19 15:43
Re: Research design perspective 364 drrayeye 17-Aug-19 17:25
Re: Research design perspective 356 Martinsw1 18-Aug-19 08:00
Re: Research design perspective 340 drrayeye 18-Aug-19 21:42
Re: Research design perspective 365 Martinsw1 19-Aug-19 08:32
Re: Research design perspective 358 Corpuscles 19-Aug-19 22:32
Not Science, No Proof 385 Barbelo 18-Aug-19 22:44
Re: Not Science, No Proof 398 Martinsw1 19-Aug-19 08:35
Pomposity Levels Not Exceeded On This Board 358 Barbelo 19-Aug-19 11:03
Re: Pomposity Levels Not Exceeded On This Board 390 Martinsw1 20-Aug-19 08:58
Re: Pomposity Levels Not Exceeded On This Board 367 Barbelo 20-Aug-19 12:00
Earth orbital antics 400 hendrik dirker 20-Aug-19 18:39
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 428 Martinsw1 11-Aug-19 19:56
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 401 Corpuscles 12-Aug-19 06:12
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 411 Rebecca Bradley 12-Aug-19 06:42
individual subjectivity and objective consensus 398 PB Bytes 12-Aug-19 16:59
Re: individual subjectivity and objective consensus 392 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 10:40
Other thoughts. 383 PB Bytes 13-Aug-19 16:32
Re: Other thoughts. 372 drrayeye 13-Aug-19 17:48
Re: Other thoughts. 373 PB Bytes 13-Aug-19 18:42
Re: Other thoughts. 374 drrayeye 13-Aug-19 19:06
Reading the book 371 greengirl5 13-Aug-19 22:40
Re: Reading the book 378 PB Bytes 14-Aug-19 03:11
Re: Other thoughts. 372 Corpuscles 14-Aug-19 01:20
Re: Other thoughts. 374 PB Bytes 14-Aug-19 02:51
Re: Other thoughts. 372 Eddie Larry 14-Aug-19 03:35
Re: Other thoughts. 352 PB Bytes 14-Aug-19 03:53
Re: Other thoughts. 363 Eddie Larry 14-Aug-19 17:54
Re: Other thoughts. 367 PB Bytes 14-Aug-19 19:02
Re: Other thoughts. 371 Eddie Larry 14-Aug-19 19:32
Re: Other thoughts. 358 PB Bytes 14-Aug-19 20:24
Re: Other thoughts. 371 Corpuscles 14-Aug-19 04:49
Re: Other thoughts. 377 Corpuscles 14-Aug-19 05:13
Re: Other thoughts. 371 PB Bytes 14-Aug-19 14:35
Dr. Sweatman, in case you didn't know... 443 PB Bytes 09-Aug-19 15:56
The Zodiac 385 hendrik dirker 10-Aug-19 12:00
Re: The Zodiac 405 PB Bytes 10-Aug-19 14:58
Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 367 greengirl5 10-Aug-19 23:15
Re: Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 360 PB Bytes 10-Aug-19 23:52
Re: Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 374 greengirl5 11-Aug-19 00:07
Re: Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 364 PB Bytes 11-Aug-19 00:20
Re: Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 369 greengirl5 11-Aug-19 00:26
Just been outside to see Scorpius 375 greengirl5 11-Aug-19 11:40
Re: Just been outside to see Scorpius 368 greengirl5 11-Aug-19 12:51
Re: Just been outside to see Scorpius 391 Susan Doris 11-Aug-19 12:53
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 403 PB Bytes 12-Aug-19 14:18
Regarding the wider picture down the line 388 PB Bytes 14-Aug-19 16:47
Re: Regarding the wider picture down the line 428 Martinsw1 15-Aug-19 07:14
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 417 Corpuscles 21-Aug-19 23:13
A new question 348 PB Bytes 01-Sep-19 17:25
Re: A new question 856 Rebecca Bradley 02-Sep-19 04:20


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