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43 and 27: this is excellent, with the arrows showing. I have not until now had a good look at this creature, was not even sure what an ibex was. True, an ibex has a long curved set of horns, but the suggested horn is only one, not a set and not near enough curved.
Also, both 43 and 27 have back legs like on a creeping feline, ready to pounce.
And snarl lines, even an eye.
Where the ibex head might be, bent down, yeah, I can see the point, but the square butt does not make sense.

There exist these clever pictures that can be both this and that, especially the old woman that can also be a young woman - do you know that trick drawing?
This could NEARLY be similar, but no, not with that square butt. Too similar to 27.

Looking at 27 and comparing, I will go for a feline.
I have yet to read the book, but have started.

GG.



Rebecca Bradley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Martinsw1 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Very likely an ibex. This is because the feline
> > was probably used for Cancer in Palaeolithic
> art
> > and Catalhoyuk shrines at least. We also find
> that
> > the ibex was used only either for Gemini or
> > Aquarius in all the places we have looked, from
> GT
> > through to Mesopotamia and ancient Egypt. I
> know
> > you think that it looks more like a feline, and
> > you are welcome to your opinion - I can easily
> see
> > it both ways. But the statistical case for
> Pillar
> > 43 makes it extremely likely your are wrong.
>
> Thank you for clarifying. Let's have a close look
> at the wee beastie:
>
>
>
> You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. But
> I have to say, that's the sorriest looking ibex I
> ever did see. For comparison, here are some other
> felines from Gobekli Tepe: (Note - AFAIK, there
> are no comparative images of ibexes.)
>
>
>
>
>
> See
> > also the fragment from GT we have discussed
> > before. If this fragment also represents the
> date
> > of the YD event, then the 'long-legged'
> quadruped
> > on this fragment probably represents Gemini,
> and
> > these legs are clearly not those of a feline.
> So
> > there is even corroborating evidence at GT that
> > Gemini is represented by an ibex, not a feline.
>
> I assume you're talking about this slab from
> Enclosure D:
>
>
>
> Note that only the bottom half of the long-legged
> quadruped is visible, and yet you are happy to ID
> it as an ibex, and claim it as corroborating
> evidence. I count three indefensible leaps of
> logic in that paragraph. However, I would say that
> it is very unlikely to be an ibex, on the basis of
> the shape of the forelegs. In GT iconography, the
> forelegs of prey/grazing species tend to bend
> forward and then down, in a kind of S-shape. Check
> out aurochs, sheep, mouflon, and ass. This is
> surely the group that would include ibex. Fiercer
> species, however, eg fox, boar, hyena, and feline,
> have big toothy grins and forelegs that go
> straight down and then forward in a V-shape, often
> with a suggestion of claws. The partial image on
> the slab fits into the second group, which does
> not include ibex. Or is all this irrelevant,
> because it conflicts with your statistical
> schema?
>
> Details, details. Why do I keep going on about the
> damn ibex/feline thing? Because you insist that
> your statistical results empower you to wave away
> awkward archaeological facts, as irrelevancies. A
> perfectly recognizable feline can become a sad,
> headless ibex with a huge square butt, and you're
> fine with that, because in your mind, stats rule.
> But, Martin, this is exactly how you debunk
> yourself. You cannot allow the P43 feline to be
> itself, because it would set up an irresolvable
> contradiction with your claims for Catal Huyuk.
> You will insist that using Western-Lore
> stick-figures in your ranking table is just fine,
> because the ancients of Gobekli Tepe used the same
> Western-lore constellations, as proven by your
> statistical results based on the ranking table.
>
> I wish you could sit down and have a chat with the
> poor sods who carved those images all those
> thousands of years ago; I have a feeling they'd
> set you straight, after they finished laughing
> themselves silly.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 14-Aug-19 09:05 by greengirl5.

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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 540 Martinsw1 06-Aug-19 09:00
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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 439 PB Bytes 08-Aug-19 20:50
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 531 Susan Doris 05-Aug-19 17:32
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 465 Martinsw1 05-Aug-19 20:23
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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 477 Edmond 07-Aug-19 13:23
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 478 Martinsw1 07-Aug-19 14:10
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 446 Susan Doris 07-Aug-19 15:07
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 459 drrayeye 08-Aug-19 04:15
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 439 Martinsw1 08-Aug-19 07:23
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 494 Merrell 08-Aug-19 08:29
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 432 drrayeye 08-Aug-19 17:27
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 493 Rebecca Bradley 08-Aug-19 15:21
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 476 PB Bytes 08-Aug-19 18:34
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 446 Rebecca Bradley 10-Aug-19 03:44
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 423 Susan Doris 10-Aug-19 05:34
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 436 Rebecca Bradley 10-Aug-19 05:57
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 425 PB Bytes 10-Aug-19 14:45
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 420 Corpuscles 10-Aug-19 22:37
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 424 PB Bytes 10-Aug-19 23:05
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 504 PB Bytes 11-Aug-19 15:56
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 428 Corpuscles 12-Aug-19 05:58
Props to Corps 403 PB Bytes 12-Aug-19 17:03
Great job! 428 drrayeye 12-Aug-19 18:01
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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured NONSENSE author for August 2019 422 Susan Doris 09-Aug-19 06:30
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured NONSENSE author for August 2019 439 Rebecca Bradley 10-Aug-19 03:46
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 463 Martinsw1 09-Aug-19 07:14
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 450 Susan Doris 09-Aug-19 10:01
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 521 Martinsw1 09-Aug-19 10:40
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 435 Susan Doris 09-Aug-19 12:38
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 470 Martinsw1 09-Aug-19 13:07
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 535 unchartedxben 09-Aug-19 16:54
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Fall of a thousand suns 429 greengirl5 10-Aug-19 02:02
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 549 Rebecca Bradley 10-Aug-19 06:05
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 435 Eddie Larry 10-Aug-19 13:20
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 443 Rebecca Bradley 10-Aug-19 15:16
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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 437 Martinsw1 11-Aug-19 19:42
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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 430 Martinsw1 12-Aug-19 08:49
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Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 424 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 18:18
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 421 Barbelo 13-Aug-19 23:46
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 427 PB Bytes 14-Aug-19 00:12
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 423 Barbelo 14-Aug-19 04:03
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 423 PB Bytes 14-Aug-19 14:26
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 420 Barbelo 14-Aug-19 21:09
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 410 PB Bytes 14-Aug-19 21:55
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 412 PB Bytes 15-Aug-19 03:19
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 432 Barbelo 15-Aug-19 04:28
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 413 PB Bytes 15-Aug-19 14:24
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 429 Eddie Larry 15-Aug-19 15:56
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 451 PB Bytes 15-Aug-19 16:49
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 424 Eddie Larry 15-Aug-19 18:35
The rest of us 447 drrayeye 15-Aug-19 19:28
Little stone in the middle of nowhere 421 greengirl5 15-Aug-19 23:05
Re: Little stone in the middle of nowhere 411 PB Bytes 15-Aug-19 23:19
Re: Little stone in the middle of nowhere 402 greengirl5 15-Aug-19 23:54
Re: Little stone in the middle of nowhere 419 greengirl5 16-Aug-19 00:14
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 501 Martinsw1 12-Aug-19 09:06
Re: Your scorpion or your Scorpius is back to front 504 Edmond 12-Aug-19 10:13
Re: Your scorpion or your Scorpius is back to front 436 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 10:30
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 462 PB Bytes 12-Aug-19 14:21
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 424 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 10:33
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Re: Constellation, or death-cult? 445 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 10:44
Re: Constellation, or death-cult? 446 PB Bytes 13-Aug-19 18:46
Re: Constellation, or death-cult? 426 Martinsw1 14-Aug-19 08:40
Re: Constellation, or death-cult? 436 PB Bytes 14-Aug-19 14:11
Lost or last civilisation? 429 greengirl5 14-Aug-19 22:28
Re: Lost or last civilisation? 416 greengirl5 15-Aug-19 00:06
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 442 Rebecca Bradley 12-Aug-19 06:26
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 454 Martinsw1 12-Aug-19 08:56
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 436 Corpuscles 12-Aug-19 23:01
Planet destruction 412 greengirl5 13-Aug-19 00:04
Re: Planet destruction 421 Corpuscles 13-Aug-19 01:50
Re: Planet destruction 415 Eddie Larry 13-Aug-19 04:09
Re: Planet destruction 417 greengirl5 13-Aug-19 06:11
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 420 Susan Doris 13-Aug-19 05:01
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 458 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 10:49
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 456 Rebecca Bradley 13-Aug-19 02:47
Composite animals 413 greengirl5 13-Aug-19 06:16
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 456 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 11:02
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 459 Rebecca Bradley 14-Aug-19 06:56
Ibex or Feline? 440 greengirl5 14-Aug-19 08:40
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 508 Martinsw1 14-Aug-19 08:44
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 425 PB Bytes 14-Aug-19 14:09
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 449 Rebecca Bradley 15-Aug-19 04:36
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 441 Corpuscles 15-Aug-19 06:03
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 457 cloister 15-Aug-19 07:50
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 454 Martinsw1 16-Aug-19 08:25
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 458 PB Bytes 16-Aug-19 16:35
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 452 Rebecca Bradley 17-Aug-19 06:48
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 444 Martinsw1 17-Aug-19 07:59
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 449 Susan Doris 17-Aug-19 10:21
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 446 Rebecca Bradley 18-Aug-19 07:42
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 467 Martinsw1 18-Aug-19 08:17
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 472 Rebecca Bradley 18-Aug-19 09:08
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 447 Corpuscles 18-Aug-19 22:36
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 465 Martinsw1 19-Aug-19 08:24
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 416 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 12:54
coming from a casual reader 425 drrayeye 20-Aug-19 14:20
Re: coming from a casual reader 414 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 15:57
Re: coming from a casual reader 401 drrayeye 20-Aug-19 17:41
Re: coming from a casual reader 415 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 20:18
280 million years 427 greengirl5 20-Aug-19 21:56
Re: 280 million years 407 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 22:23
Re: 280 million years 407 greengirl5 21-Aug-19 06:41
Support for Mrs. O'Leary's "milk factory" (in song) 382 drrayeye 21-Aug-19 00:55
Re: coming from a casual gambler 381 Barbelo 20-Aug-19 21:36
Re: coming from a casual gambler 412 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 21:46
Re: coming from a casual reader 390 Eddie Larry 21-Aug-19 00:03
Re: coming from a casual reader 391 Corpuscles 21-Aug-19 01:21
American joke 403 drrayeye 21-Aug-19 02:11
Re: coming from a casual reader 399 Eddie Larry 21-Aug-19 02:23
Re: coming from a casual reader 404 PB Bytes 20-Aug-19 16:32
Re: coming from a casual reader 376 drrayeye 20-Aug-19 17:46
Re: coming from a casual reader 396 PB Bytes 20-Aug-19 18:06
Re: coming from a casual reader 413 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 20:33
Re: coming from a casual reader 391 PB Bytes 20-Aug-19 22:29
Re: coming from a casual reader 399 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 22:52
Zodiacal Art & Precession 404 Barbelo 20-Aug-19 22:25
Re: Zodiacal Art & Precession 388 PB Bytes 21-Aug-19 04:36
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 424 PB Bytes 17-Aug-19 15:14
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 432 Rebecca Bradley 18-Aug-19 08:48
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 404 PB Bytes 18-Aug-19 16:38
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 394 Rebecca Bradley 20-Aug-19 07:53
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 397 Susan Doris 20-Aug-19 10:23
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 389 PB Bytes 20-Aug-19 19:36
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 406 Martinsw1 20-Aug-19 08:17
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 435 Rebecca Bradley 20-Aug-19 22:55
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 448 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 23:16
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 449 Rebecca Bradley 22-Aug-19 06:48
The Test? 421 PB Bytes 21-Aug-19 15:59
Re: The Test? 406 Corpuscles 21-Aug-19 21:25
Re: The Test? 394 PB Bytes 21-Aug-19 21:58
Re: The Test? 411 Barbelo 21-Aug-19 22:05
Re: The Test? 407 Corpuscles 21-Aug-19 22:52
Re: The Test? 415 Rebecca Bradley 22-Aug-19 05:31
Re: The Test? 407 Barbelo 22-Aug-19 05:48
Re: The Test? 419 PB Bytes 22-Aug-19 14:21
Revising... The Test? 422 PB Bytes 22-Aug-19 16:48
animal anatomy lesson #1 430 hendrik dirker 22-Aug-19 19:02
Re: animal anatomy lesson #1 444 PB Bytes 22-Aug-19 19:06
Re: animal anatomy 419 hendrik dirker 24-Aug-19 06:09
Re: animal anatomy 452 PB Bytes 24-Aug-19 16:25
Re: Revising... The Test? 410 Rebecca Bradley 24-Aug-19 07:22
Re: Revising... The Test? 397 PB Bytes 24-Aug-19 15:30
Re: Revising... The Test? 393 Rebecca Bradley 31-Aug-19 06:03
Re: Revising... The Test? 390 PB Bytes 31-Aug-19 17:08
Re: Revising... The Test? 383 Eddie Larry 31-Aug-19 17:32
Re: Revising... The Test? 385 PB Bytes 31-Aug-19 19:52
Re: Revising... The Test? 384 Rebecca Bradley 01-Sep-19 04:03
Re: Revising... The Test? 368 PB Bytes 01-Sep-19 15:30
Re: Revising... The Test? 385 Eddie Larry 01-Sep-19 15:45
Re: Revising... The Test? 393 Rebecca Bradley 01-Sep-19 04:15
Research design perspective 416 drrayeye 14-Aug-19 22:21
Re: Research design perspective 386 Eddie Larry 14-Aug-19 22:43
Re: Research design perspective 408 Susan Doris 15-Aug-19 05:01
Re: Research design perspective 425 Martinsw1 15-Aug-19 07:08
Re: Research design perspective 403 PB Bytes 17-Aug-19 15:43
Re: Research design perspective 411 drrayeye 17-Aug-19 17:25
Re: Research design perspective 405 Martinsw1 18-Aug-19 08:00
Re: Research design perspective 391 drrayeye 18-Aug-19 21:42
Re: Research design perspective 411 Martinsw1 19-Aug-19 08:32
Re: Research design perspective 407 Corpuscles 19-Aug-19 22:32
Not Science, No Proof 436 Barbelo 18-Aug-19 22:44
Re: Not Science, No Proof 449 Martinsw1 19-Aug-19 08:35
Pomposity Levels Not Exceeded On This Board 412 Barbelo 19-Aug-19 11:03
Re: Pomposity Levels Not Exceeded On This Board 442 Martinsw1 20-Aug-19 08:58
Re: Pomposity Levels Not Exceeded On This Board 420 Barbelo 20-Aug-19 12:00
Earth orbital antics 448 hendrik dirker 20-Aug-19 18:39
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 480 Martinsw1 11-Aug-19 19:56
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 449 Corpuscles 12-Aug-19 06:12
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 467 Rebecca Bradley 12-Aug-19 06:42
individual subjectivity and objective consensus 463 PB Bytes 12-Aug-19 16:59
Re: individual subjectivity and objective consensus 444 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 10:40
Other thoughts. 436 PB Bytes 13-Aug-19 16:32
Re: Other thoughts. 419 drrayeye 13-Aug-19 17:48
Re: Other thoughts. 433 PB Bytes 13-Aug-19 18:42
Re: Other thoughts. 424 drrayeye 13-Aug-19 19:06
Reading the book 426 greengirl5 13-Aug-19 22:40
Re: Reading the book 434 PB Bytes 14-Aug-19 03:11
Re: Other thoughts. 430 Corpuscles 14-Aug-19 01:20
Re: Other thoughts. 428 PB Bytes 14-Aug-19 02:51
Re: Other thoughts. 424 Eddie Larry 14-Aug-19 03:35
Re: Other thoughts. 401 PB Bytes 14-Aug-19 03:53
Re: Other thoughts. 414 Eddie Larry 14-Aug-19 17:54
Re: Other thoughts. 411 PB Bytes 14-Aug-19 19:02
Re: Other thoughts. 416 Eddie Larry 14-Aug-19 19:32
Re: Other thoughts. 407 PB Bytes 14-Aug-19 20:24
Re: Other thoughts. 425 Corpuscles 14-Aug-19 04:49
Re: Other thoughts. 428 Corpuscles 14-Aug-19 05:13
Re: Other thoughts. 419 PB Bytes 14-Aug-19 14:35
Dr. Sweatman, in case you didn't know... 493 PB Bytes 09-Aug-19 15:56
The Zodiac 434 hendrik dirker 10-Aug-19 12:00
Re: The Zodiac 455 PB Bytes 10-Aug-19 14:58
Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 419 greengirl5 10-Aug-19 23:15
Re: Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 408 PB Bytes 10-Aug-19 23:52
Re: Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 424 greengirl5 11-Aug-19 00:07
Re: Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 413 PB Bytes 11-Aug-19 00:20
Re: Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 419 greengirl5 11-Aug-19 00:26
Just been outside to see Scorpius 428 greengirl5 11-Aug-19 11:40
Re: Just been outside to see Scorpius 411 greengirl5 11-Aug-19 12:51
Re: Just been outside to see Scorpius 440 Susan Doris 11-Aug-19 12:53
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 449 PB Bytes 12-Aug-19 14:18
Regarding the wider picture down the line 433 PB Bytes 14-Aug-19 16:47
Re: Regarding the wider picture down the line 482 Martinsw1 15-Aug-19 07:14
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 468 Corpuscles 21-Aug-19 23:13
A new question 405 PB Bytes 01-Sep-19 17:25
Re: A new question 926 Rebecca Bradley 02-Sep-19 04:20


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