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I will be happy to define the words "spiritual" and "divine". However, these are words which are used in abstract and subtly different manners by many religious faiths, so you should probably direct your frustration more to the world at large than to me. So ... "Spiritual" is an opposing word to "material". We use it as a way of subscribing to the view that reality consists of more than what is merely tangible to creatures. What that hidden aspect consists of varies from belief to belief. Some say there are spirit beings, an astral plane, etc. I have no firm belief in such. I use it in the sense that consciousness has a metaphysical foundation. It's a phenomenon that hasn't ever been understood via reductive materialism. Similarly, I use "divine" in the sense that reality is deeper than just space-time. I look at the Big Bang singularity and I don't impose the laws of nature upon it, because the laws of nature are what came out of it (see my AOM essay for more).
Thank you for your reply.

Dean Radin has undertaken a massive amount of research, mostly using meta-analyses. Psi effects tend to be small and experiments prone to failure. But a meta-analysis allows for a statistic to be drawn on the probability of psi vs. chance expectation. The results consistently favour psi. All of this is heavily documented.
Yes, and quite well criticised too!

The reason why mainstream science hasn't embraced psi phenomena is not because they don't exist, but because most scientists reason from within a paradigm where they *can't* exist.
The scientist whose talk I attended yesterday is certainly not one of those.

And unless an experimenter is able to checkmate a viewer with a big grand display, like levitating an object, it's very hard to shift the opponents philosophical biases.
That is your, and many others, personal view. One objective fact would do it.

Your position is dangerously close to an argument from popularity, and those are never any good.
And you assume to know my position from a post here?!

Let's remember that two thousand years before Copernicus, the Greek philosopher Aristarchus said that the Earth went around the sun. He was right, but went unheeded for the next two millennia.

But I'm guessing you probably think this is all word salad, and you won't read the research for yourself. You want me to convince you with an anecdote, and that's impossible.

If it matters to you at all, Albert Einstein wrote the foreword to Upton Sinclair's "Mental Radio", a 1930 book on ESP. He thought very highly of the research. In Sam Harris's "Waking Up", the author admits that there is a growing body of research that suggests psi is real.
And if the suggestion turns out to be right, following the scientific method, then it will become factual knowledge. Otherwise it will remain, as all supernatural ideas have so far remained, unknowns and therefore, so far, unable to be observed.

I have been reading all the stuff I could find on all aspects of the supernatural, apparent ETs, etc etc, all my life. When I was young the arguments on the opposing side, which my natural tendency to ask always, ‘Is this true?’ were rare but fortunately in my wide experience of life I found the sceptical side too and, on balance, I’ll take the side every time that does not require 100% faith.

Okay, I’ll now do as I said and stay out of this thread.


ETA Having read GG's post, I am just popping back in to say that it might change whatever image you have of me if you know that I run a weekly tap class for a group of 75-85-year-olds and we dance the Advanced Syllabus plus a variety of other dances including a super routine to the Glenn Miller 'St Louis Blues'!!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09-Jun-19 05:49 by Susan Doris.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Parapsychology and wonderment 35290 Darryl Sloan 03-Jun-19 19:34
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 554 greengirl5 03-Jun-19 23:08
u-tube 542 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 03:54
Re: u-tube 515 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 06:17
Re: u-tube 522 Darryl Sloan 04-Jun-19 19:02
Re: u-tube 512 Darryl Sloan 04-Jun-19 18:58
Re: u-tube 495 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 22:29
Meaningful dreams 508 Darryl Sloan 04-Jun-19 18:47
Re: Meaningful dreams 508 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 22:46
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 515 PB Bytes 04-Jun-19 22:29
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 525 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 23:08
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 509 Eddie Larry 05-Jun-19 01:08
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 520 greengirl5 05-Jun-19 03:15
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 600 Eddie Larry 05-Jun-19 20:51
Who was Jesus? 548 Darryl Sloan 06-Jun-19 11:27
Re: Who was Jesus? 502 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 14:37
Re: Who was Jesus? 551 PB Bytes 06-Jun-19 15:49
Re: Who was Jesus? 515 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 22:21
Re: Who was Jesus? 510 PB Bytes 06-Jun-19 23:06
Re: Who was Jesus? And who were the Mayans? 496 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 23:40
And who were the Mayans? 527 PB Bytes 07-Jun-19 15:41
Winter solstice 2012 509 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 22:40
Re: Winter solstice 2012 518 PB Bytes 07-Jun-19 23:21
Re: Winter solstice 2012 496 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 23:51
Re: Who was Jesus? 507 Darryl Sloan 08-Jun-19 20:16
Questions 522 drrayeye 08-Jun-19 20:47
Re: Questions 545 Darryl Sloan 10-Jun-19 19:02
Re: Questions and maybe some answers? 501 greengirl5 11-Jun-19 00:03
Re: Questions and maybe some answers? 494 Darryl Sloan 14-Jun-19 09:28
Good and evil 484 greengirl5 14-Jun-19 22:59
Re: Good and evil 482 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 11:19
Re: Questions 509 drrayeye 11-Jun-19 07:19
Re: Questions 498 Darryl Sloan 14-Jun-19 09:13
Scientists and Dualism 474 drrayeye 14-Jun-19 16:30
Re: Scientists and Dualism 500 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 12:03
Re: Scientists and Dualism 515 drrayeye 17-Jun-19 16:10
Re: Scientists and Dualism 508 Susan Doris 17-Jun-19 17:25
Consciousness and the perceptual environment 479 drrayeye 18-Jun-19 04:10
Re: Who was Jesus? 515 PB Bytes 08-Jun-19 21:11
Re: Who was Jesus? 508 Darryl Sloan 10-Jun-19 19:20
A scholarly alternative 523 drrayeye 07-Jun-19 06:46
Re: A scholarly alternative 506 Darryl Sloan 10-Jun-19 19:09
Re: A scholarly alternative 533 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-19 21:19
Re: A scholarly alternative 506 greengirl5 11-Jun-19 22:11
Re: A scholarly alternative 538 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-19 22:21
Re: A scholarly alternative 515 SandyJesse 15-Jun-19 05:14
Re: A scholarly alternative 481 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 11:23
Tiberius Julius Cotys Philocaesar Eusebes 498 Eddie Larry 17-Jun-19 22:32
Re: Tiberius Julius Cotys Philocaesar Eusebes 509 SandyJesse 18-Jun-19 02:56
Re: Tiberius Julius Cotys Philocaesar Eusebes 484 Eddie Larry 18-Jun-19 03:03
Re: A scholarly alternative 513 Darryl Sloan 13-Jun-19 11:58
Re: A scholarly alternative 500 Eddie Larry 13-Jun-19 14:04
Re: A scholarly alternative 490 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 11:28
Re: A scholarly alternative 497 Eddie Larry 17-Jun-19 13:08
Follow me - on Facebook....... 479 greengirl5 17-Jun-19 23:10
Re: Follow me - on Facebook....... 497 Eddie Larry 18-Jun-19 01:42
After the resurrection...... 510 greengirl5 18-Jun-19 06:02
Re: After the resurrection...... 484 Eddie Larry 18-Jun-19 13:32
Well said 509 drrayeye 18-Jun-19 04:38
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 515 Darryl Sloan 06-Jun-19 10:05
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 496 Darryl Sloan 05-Jun-19 14:48
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 507 PB Bytes 05-Jun-19 15:37
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 507 Darryl Sloan 06-Jun-19 10:55
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 507 PB Bytes 06-Jun-19 15:38
au contraire 530 drrayeye 04-Jun-19 23:15
Re: au contraire 489 Darryl Sloan 05-Jun-19 15:05
Re: au contraire 517 drrayeye 05-Jun-19 19:56
Re: au contraire 509 Darryl Sloan 06-Jun-19 10:08
Re: au contraire 506 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 13:48
Re: au contraire 1102 PB Bytes 06-Jun-19 15:31
Re: au contraire 513 drrayeye 06-Jun-19 16:11
Re: au contraire 530 PB Bytes 06-Jun-19 16:16
Consciousness 512 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 23:27
Our brains 526 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 00:56
Re: Consciousness 510 Darryl Sloan 13-Jun-19 11:50
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 538 Susan Doris 07-Jun-19 06:03
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 570 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 07:47
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 530 Susan Doris 07-Jun-19 07:53
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 510 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 23:59
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 521 Darryl Sloan 08-Jun-19 19:22
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 510 greengirl5 08-Jun-19 22:44
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 513 Susan Doris 09-Jun-19 05:23
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 521 SandyJesse 09-Jun-19 06:24
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 538 Susan Doris 09-Jun-19 07:19
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 514 greengirl5 09-Jun-19 09:12
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 519 Susan Doris 09-Jun-19 10:03
There it is again 502 greengirl5 09-Jun-19 12:07
Re: There it is again 503 Susan Doris 09-Jun-19 14:49
You know? 525 greengirl5 10-Jun-19 00:36
Re: You know? 507 Susan Doris 10-Jun-19 10:49
Re: You know? 512 greengirl5 10-Jun-19 13:47
Re: You know? 507 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-19 00:09
Re: You know? 476 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-19 21:43
Re: You know? 488 greengirl5 11-Jun-19 21:58
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 526 SandyJesse 10-Jun-19 06:38
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 529 greengirl5 10-Jun-19 09:48
How to make gold 514 greengirl5 15-Jun-19 07:47
Re: How to make gold 494 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 11:07
Re: How to make gold 518 Susan Doris 17-Jun-19 17:31
Re: How to make gold 481 Darryl Sloan 18-Jun-19 08:15
Re: How to make gold 506 Susan Doris 18-Jun-19 09:41
Re: How to make gold 504 greengirl5 18-Jun-19 13:10
Re: How to make gold 502 Susan Doris 18-Jun-19 13:37
Re: How to make gold 498 greengirl5 18-Jun-19 23:30
Re: How to make gold 502 drrayeye 18-Jun-19 18:09
Re: How to make gold 499 greengirl5 18-Jun-19 23:14
Re: How to make gold 484 Darryl Sloan 20-Jun-19 11:44
The "para" is not going away, it is getting stronger. 486 greengirl5 20-Jun-19 23:32
Re: The "para" is not going away, it is getting stronger. 477 Susan Doris 21-Jun-19 09:43
Re: The "para" is not going away, it is getting stronger. 474 greengirl5 21-Jun-19 12:18
Re: How to make gold 482 Susan Doris 21-Jun-19 06:18
Re: How to make gold 478 greengirl5 21-Jun-19 12:14
Re: How to make gold 493 Susan Doris 21-Jun-19 14:42
Re: How to make gold 492 greengirl5 21-Jun-19 23:30
Re: How to make gold 485 Susan Doris 22-Jun-19 05:14
Re: How to make gold 480 greengirl5 22-Jun-19 06:26
Re: How to make gold 468 Susan Doris 22-Jun-19 07:04
Re: How to make gold 487 greengirl5 22-Jun-19 23:49
Re: How to make gold 474 Darryl Sloan 24-Jun-19 18:25
defying naturalistic explanations 496 drrayeye 24-Jun-19 23:32
Re: defying naturalistic explanations 456 Darryl Sloan 26-Jun-19 21:09
Science vs. speculation 867 drrayeye 26-Jun-19 21:57
Re: How to make gold 474 Susan Doris 25-Jun-19 05:57
Great advice to scientists! 492 greengirl5 25-Jun-19 07:24
Re: Great advice to scientists! 466 Susan Doris 25-Jun-19 10:07
Re: Great advice to scientists! 488 greengirl5 26-Jun-19 00:25
a very creative scientist shares his insights 483 drrayeye 25-Jun-19 11:50
Re: a very creative scientist shares his insights 476 Susan Doris 25-Jun-19 14:00
Re: How to make gold 454 Darryl Sloan 24-Jun-19 18:09
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 479 rulebook54 24-Jun-19 22:35
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 475 greengirl5 25-Jun-19 00:31
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 463 Susan Doris 25-Jun-19 06:05
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 460 greengirl5 25-Jun-19 07:11
Big consciousness, little consciousness. 453 greengirl5 25-Jun-19 02:37

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