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As it stands the interbreeding between Aboriginals and Denisovans is dated to 44Kya, so that is the date we should work with. If you have evidence of other dates or another two interbreeding events I would need to see it before commenting.

My theory (the evidence is s solid that it is well beyond a hypothesis) is that Eurasia was repopulated from Australia around 60kya, but I do not say it is impossible some Africans emerged into Eurasia in the period 60 - 50Kya. They do not seem to have based on existing data.


There is high genetic diversity in Sub-Saharan Africa, yes, but also incredible diversity in Australia. Right now nobody can state that the African diversity is higher than that of Aboriginals. Until further, more comprehensive, sampling is carried out in Australasia this remains a murky area.

There is no meaningful evidence that all mtDNA and Y chromosomal data roots in Africa not Australia. Your understanding is based on a glaring assumption, that haplogroups L3, M, N and CT emerged first in Africa around 73,000 years ago. There is absolutely no proof of this, the oldest African DNA samples are a mere 8000 years old. The consensus view is based on sampling African people from the present day and then assuming all the direct ancestors of these people (myself included) lived in Africa from the present day all the way back to hundreds of thousands of years ago. This is a huge and wild assumption. The evidence does not fit well with this at all, hence recent papers that have argued for HgL3 emerging in Asia and moving into Africa - something I already had explained in my book. The mutation rates of Y-chromosomal material and mtDNA differ by 10X, the likelihood of mutations on both lines occurring at the same moment (73,000 years ago) in teh same place (East Africa) are incredibly small. The better fit has always been a migration across the Bab-el-Mandab carrying these haplogroups into the continent. Today we now know that there was a climatic disaster underway outside of Sub-Saharan Africa with every reason for humans in western Eurasia to head towards the safe-zones of sub-equtorial Africa.

Did you know that the oldest variants of HgM and HgN are all found among Aboriginals?

“The southern route hypothesis proposes that the Eurasian branches (M and N) of the macrohaplogroup L3 differentiated in or near the African continent and rapidly spread across the Asian peninsulas to reach Australia and Melanesia. Under this assumption, it is expected that, in general, coalescence ages of haplogroups should decrease from Africa to Australia. However, we have demonstrated that this is not the case. Just on the contrary, the oldest M and N haplogroups are detected in southern China and Australasia instead of India, and associations between longitudinal geographic distances and relative ages of M and N haplogroups run, against to expectation, westwards with younger haplogroup ages going to Africa.” [www.biorxiv.org]

It should also be noted that while HgL3 and both HgM & HgN are closely related, they are considered to have emerged at essentially the same time, it has never been explained how that can work, why assume HgL3 is ancestral to M & N? The answer is it is very convenient for Recent Out of Africa but makes no sense in terms of the mutation rate of mtDNA. These three lines did not all magically appear suddenly 73,000 years ago, they were driven west by the climate and therefore appear in the genome of early Africans close to that time.

It is simply a case of a 'garbage in, garbage out' model. Yes, if we place the origin of all these haplogroups in Africa without any compelling evidence, and a great deal of contrary data, then we can make all the rest of the model sound very solid. The entire thing is built on quicksand.


There is more and more doubt that AMH emerged from Africa with archaic Homo sapiens in 260Kya and fully modern humans there at least 120Kya. These early migrants have left very little genetic legacy because of the climatic event that reduced them to a handful of survivors and pushed many of them into Africa.

The hypothesis that these founder haplogrups are African is baseless, wrong, and in collapse.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 4621 Bruce R. Fenton 01-Jun-17 11:19
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 1150 Susan Doris 02-Jun-17 05:45
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 829 Bruce R. Fenton 02-Jun-17 06:56
Related threads on GHMB 899 drrayeye 02-Jun-17 17:06
Re: Related threads on GHMB 733 Bruce R. Fenton 03-Jun-17 10:19
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 772 laughin 05-Jun-17 21:06
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 765 Bruce R. Fenton 06-Jun-17 04:03
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 767 SallyA 07-Jun-17 02:28
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 647 Bruce R. Fenton 07-Jun-17 04:40
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 991 Thanos5150 06-Jun-17 14:29
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 775 SallyA 07-Jun-17 02:55
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 731 Bruce R. Fenton 07-Jun-17 05:47
... 760 SallyA 08-Jun-17 04:00
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution ..-_-.. question one 673 Bruce R. Fenton 08-Jun-17 04:37
... 769 SallyA 08-Jun-17 06:51
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 655 Thanos5150 07-Jun-17 16:15
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 785 Thanos5150 07-Jun-17 19:38
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 751 Bruce R. Fenton 08-Jun-17 03:20
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 635 Bruce R. Fenton 07-Jun-17 05:33
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 1016 Thanos5150 07-Jun-17 16:08
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 694 SallyA 08-Jun-17 05:17
... 771 SallyA 08-Jun-17 06:06
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 736 Bruce R. Fenton 09-Jun-17 02:19
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution -- thank you 695 SallyA 09-Jun-17 03:47
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 857 Thanos5150 11-Jun-17 16:13
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 642 Bruce R. Fenton 12-Jun-17 09:26
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 665 Bruce R. Fenton 09-Jun-17 02:03
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 745 Thanos5150 09-Jun-17 23:54
OOA strikes back - the sequel 792 laughin 08-Jun-17 13:09
Re: OOA strikes back - the sequel 693 Bruce R. Fenton 08-Jun-17 15:37
Re: OOA strikes back - the sequel 700 Thanos5150 08-Jun-17 17:23
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 678 Robert Jameson 11-Jun-17 06:13
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 686 Bruce R. Fenton 11-Jun-17 11:46
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 829 Robert Jameson 12-Jun-17 05:34
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 685 dong 12-Jun-17 06:51
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 751 Robert Jameson 12-Jun-17 13:32
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 765 Bruce R. Fenton 12-Jun-17 09:19
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 651 Robert Jameson 12-Jun-17 12:40
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 720 Susan Doris 14-Jun-17 05:02
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 727 Robert Jameson 14-Jun-17 05:45
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 750 michael seabrook 13-Jun-17 22:09
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 755 Robert Jameson 13-Jun-17 00:51
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 652 SallyA 13-Jun-17 01:03
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 635 Robert Jameson 13-Jun-17 02:44
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution. -- off topic .. senmutt tomb. .. Giza hosts an inland sea 828 SallyA 13-Jun-17 02:59
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution. -- off topic .. senmutt tomb 618 Robert Jameson 13-Jun-17 03:39
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution. -- off topic .. senmutt tomb 686 SallyA 13-Jun-17 04:04
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 739 Thanos5150 14-Jun-17 15:55
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 810 Robert Jameson 14-Jun-17 17:54
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 638 michael seabrook 16-Jun-17 21:03
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 659 Robert Jameson 16-Jun-17 22:47
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution Excellent and ... 728 SallyA 16-Jun-17 23:39
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution Excellent and ... 726 Robert Jameson 17-Jun-17 09:44
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 633 Susan Doris 17-Jun-17 14:17
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 693 Robert Jameson 18-Jun-17 02:43
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 647 Susan Doris 18-Jun-17 09:24
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 718 Bruce R. Fenton 18-Jun-17 11:04
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 706 Robert Jameson 18-Jun-17 11:14
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 616 Robert Jameson 18-Jun-17 11:04
Unfair diversion 545 drrayeye 18-Jun-17 21:35
Re: Proto-sumerian ... Ukraine ... a bit late for into Africa I fear, probably mis-posted 817 SallyA 19-Jun-17 03:00
Re: Unfair diversion 746 Susan Doris 19-Jun-17 05:20
Unfair diversion for sure 636 drrayeye 19-Jun-17 05:47
Re: Unfair diversion for sure 696 Susan Doris 20-Jun-17 04:56
Robert's challenge 748 drrayeye 20-Jun-17 07:24
Re: Robert's challenge 630 Robert Jameson 26-Jun-17 11:17
Tangential 622 drrayeye 27-Jun-17 05:03
Re: Tangential 630 Robert Jameson 27-Jun-17 06:12
Wrong board 649 drrayeye 27-Jun-17 06:38
Re: Wrong board 604 Robert Jameson 27-Jun-17 08:03
Re: Tangential 646 Eddie Larry 27-Jun-17 15:59
Re:Susan, do you know of a time line? 649 SallyA 19-Jun-17 17:48
Re: Unfair diversion 712 Thanos5150 19-Jun-17 13:44
Re: Unfair diversion 632 drrayeye 19-Jun-17 15:40
Re: Unfair diversion 744 Robert Jameson 19-Jun-17 23:14
Re: Unfair diversion 641 drrayeye 20-Jun-17 00:31
Re: Unfair diversion 703 Robert Jameson 20-Jun-17 10:19
kicking a dead horse 648 drrayeye 20-Jun-17 14:36
Re: kicking a dead horse 558 Robert Jameson 20-Jun-17 23:49
Staying on topic 641 drrayeye 21-Jun-17 01:15
Re: Unfair diversion 645 Thanos5150 20-Jun-17 15:24
Hominids vs Homo. most obvious difference -- thumbs on feet 579 SallyA 20-Jun-17 15:59
Re: Hominids vs Homo. most obvious difference -- thumbs on feet 563 Bruce R. Fenton 26-Jun-17 10:21
Interesting 629 drrayeye 27-Jun-17 06:50
Re: Interesting 518 Bruce R. Fenton 27-Jun-17 22:32
Re: Hominids vs Homo. most obvious difference -- thumbs on feet 517 Eddie Larry 28-Jun-17 04:37
Re: Hominids vs Homo. most obvious difference -- thumbs on feet 868 Bruce R. Fenton 28-Jun-17 04:41
Re: Unfair diversion 595 drrayeye 20-Jun-17 15:59
Off Topic: re: factors which alter .. Earth's shields don't block cygnets ... nor neutrinos, ... 568 SallyA 20-Jun-17 21:13
Re: Unfair diversion 546 SallyA 21-Jun-17 01:37
Focus 644 drrayeye 21-Jun-17 07:30
Re: Focus 721 Bruce R. Fenton 26-Jun-17 10:26
Re: Focus 612 Susan Doris 26-Jun-17 16:51
Re: Focus... ah, my bad ... 519 SallyA 11-Feb-18 19:40
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 721 Bruce R. Fenton 17-Jun-17 12:12
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 648 Robert Jameson 26-Jun-17 06:32
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 637 Bruce R. Fenton 26-Jun-17 11:57
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 771 Robert Jameson 26-Jun-17 13:59
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 459 lalbee 16-Feb-18 13:39
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 441 lalbee 17-Feb-18 02:25
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 467 Bruce R. Fenton 17-Feb-18 04:13
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 437 lalbee 17-Feb-18 05:56
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 483 Bruce R. Fenton 17-Feb-18 06:27
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 610 lalbee 18-Feb-18 15:17
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 471 drrayeye 21-Feb-18 13:48
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 451 lalbee 22-Feb-18 16:45
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 445 Robert Jameson 22-Feb-18 19:39
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 862 Bruce R. Fenton 22-Feb-18 23:07
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 472 Bruce R. Fenton 22-Feb-18 23:00


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