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carolb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aine Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Duane, Duane, Duane... :))
> >
> >
> > > Kristin, Kristin, Kristin,
> > >
> > > 1. the 7 footers you are referring to now
> are
> > the
> > > outliers (mainly diseased) from a group of
> > people
> > > who are genetically smaller
> >
> > I don't know about diseased (unless you're
> > referring to gigantism and/or acromegaly) but
> this
> > is a possibility.
> >
> >
> > > 2. these ancients one may be from a group of
> > > people (another Homo group), one of our
> genetic
> > > cousins, who were genetically larger and
> > therefore
> > > healthy - no need to die young
> >
> > Again, possible. But without any skeletons
> there's
> > no way to determine that.
> > >
> > > 3. the wiki square-cube article
> > > [en.wikipedia.org]
> > > talks about
> > >
Quote

As was elucidated by J. B. S. Haldane,
> > > large animals do not look like small animals:
> > an
> > > elephant cannot be mistaken for a mouse
> scaled
> > up
> > > in size. This is due to allometric scaling:
> the
> > > bones of an elephant are necessarily
> > > proportionately much larger than the bones of
> a
> > > mouse, because they must carry
> proportionately
> > > higher weight.
> > >
> > > yet mammoths were larger than present day
> > > elephants but both look pretty much the same
> > > proportion
> > > so a giant mouse would look like a mouse....
> >
> > You're cherry picking. The law states that as a
> > shape (or an organism) grows, the volume
> increases
> > faster than the surface area. What Haldane said
> is
> > that an elephant MUST have larger bones than a
> > mouse because those bones have to carry a lot
> more
> > weight.
> >
> > Haldane wrote an essay called On Being the
> > Right Size
in which he says:
> >
> >
Quote

The most obvious differences between
> > different animals are differences of size, but
> for
> > some reason the zoologists have paid singularly
> > little attention to them. In a large textbook
> of
> > zoology before me I find no indication that the
> > eagle is larger than the sparrow, or the
> > hippopotamus bigger than the hare, though some
> > grudging admissions are made in the case of the
> > mouse and the whale. But yet it is easy to show
> > that a hare could not be as large as a
> > hippopotamus, or a whale as small as a herring.
> > For every type of animal there is a most
> > convenient size, and a large change in size
> > inevitably carries with it a change of form.
> >
> > Let us take the most obvious of possible cases,
> > and consider a giant man sixty feet
> high—about
> > the height of Giant Pope and Giant Pagan in the
> > illustrated Pilgrim’s Progress of my
> childhood.
> > These monsters were not only ten times as high
> as
> > Christian, but ten times as wide and ten times
> as
> > thick, so that their total weight was a
> thousand
> > times his, or about eighty to ninety tons.
> > Unfortunately the cross sections of their bones
> > were only a hundred times those of Christian,
> so
> > that every square inch of giant bone had to
> > support ten times the weight borne by a square
> > inch of human bone. As the human thigh-bone
> breaks
> > under about ten times the human weight, Pope
> and
> > Pagan would have broken their thighs every time
> > they took a step. This was doubtless why they
> were
> > sitting down in the picture I remember. But it
> > lessens one’s respect for Christian and Jack
> the
> > Giant Killer.
> >
> >
> [irl.cs.ucla.edu]
> >
> > The square cube law states:
> >
> >
Quote

When an object undergoes a proportional
> > increase in size, its new surface area is
> > proportional to the square of the multiplier
> and
> > its new volume is proportional to the cube of
> the
> > multiplier.
> >
> > The cross section increases by the square of
> the
> > scaling factor and the mass increases by the
> cube
> > of the scaling factor.
> >
> > This explains why the mammoths died out. They
> were
> > splendidly adapted for cold conditions--their
> huge
> > size helped them in that regard. But large
> mammals
> > like that have a very difficult time cooling
> > themselves. When the climate warmed up, they
> > couldn't tolerate it. The same thing goes for
> > elephants. They're wonderful at retaining heat
> but
> > not so good at getting rid of it.
> >
> > The same is true of humans. Smaller people get
> > cold very easily--their body heat dissipates
> > quickly. Larger people can stay warm longer and
> > can tolerate much colder temperatures.
> >
> > Now, take out average 5'7" and scale that up to
> 8
> > feet, which is what we're talking about here.
> > First off, you'd lose a lot of muscle strength.
> > Remember, the cross section of the muscle
> > increases by the square of the scaling factor
> and
> > the mass increases by the cube of the scaling
> > factor.
What you'd have is a massive body
> > without the musculature to support it.
> >
> > Second, the cardiovascular system would have to
> > work really hard to pump blood and oxygenate
> > tissue, which leads to lung issues as well. Why
> do
> > you think that many people 7 feet or larger die
> > from pneumonia?
> >
> >
> > > 3. these ancient tall ones were also "Native
> > > Americans", unless you want to put a cut-off
> > date,
> > > i.e. before 10,000BC, as to when arrival
> makes
> > you
> > > a native versus foreign
> >
> > Show me a skeleton. That's all you have to do.
>
>
> Excellent technical information there about size,
> mass and volume! I didn't know a lot of that.
> Thanks for posting. I'm sure a lot of people will
> find it useful. Why not start a thread on that
> information in its own right?
>
> Carol


Why bother? No one will listen. They'll just corrupt the principles of biology and mathematics for their own ends when they obviously don't understand either.

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Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 2138 Graham Hancock 02-Nov-15 08:09
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 568 Misterx 02-Nov-15 13:04
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 651 Hugh Newman 02-Nov-15 14:53
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 491 Aine 02-Nov-15 19:10
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 597 Hugh Newman 02-Nov-15 21:41
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 454 Aine 03-Nov-15 16:03
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 480 thirdpal 03-Nov-15 19:21
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 463 Aine 03-Nov-15 19:38
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 508 Jim Vieira 04-Nov-15 19:46
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 435 Aine 06-Nov-15 14:15
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 448 thirdpal 06-Nov-15 15:02
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 482 Aine 06-Nov-15 15:13
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 411 thirdpal 06-Nov-15 15:29
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 422 Aine 06-Nov-15 15:37
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 494 carolb 03-Nov-15 17:26
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 615 Hugh Newman 03-Nov-15 18:09
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 417 Jim Vieira 04-Nov-15 19:49
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 485 thirdpal 03-Nov-15 19:11
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 486 thirdpal 03-Nov-15 19:15
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 424 Aine 03-Nov-15 19:20
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 407 Jim Vieira 04-Nov-15 19:30
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 473 Misterx 02-Nov-15 22:37
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 424 dong 03-Nov-15 22:59
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 435 Jim Vieira 04-Nov-15 19:21
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 460 robert2467 02-Nov-15 19:31
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 584 Hugh Newman 02-Nov-15 21:36
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 546 carolb 03-Nov-15 00:03
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 417 Aine 03-Nov-15 16:08
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 493 carolb 03-Nov-15 17:14
Karankawa 474 Dr. Troglodyte 04-Nov-15 00:57
Re: Karankawa 397 Aine 04-Nov-15 01:17
Re: Karankawa 438 Dr. Troglodyte 05-Nov-15 17:10
Re: Karankawa 422 thirdpal 05-Nov-15 20:29
Re: Karankawa 461 Dr. Troglodyte 06-Nov-15 00:46
Re: Karankawa 403 Aine 06-Nov-15 14:36
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 545 Greg Little 04-Nov-15 16:39
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 440 Aine 04-Nov-15 17:40
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 443 thirdpal 06-Nov-15 15:18
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 460 Aine 06-Nov-15 19:17
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 424 thirdpal 05-Nov-15 19:27
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 511 Aine 04-Nov-15 00:22
Good to see some authors I readily recognize. 478 Ratcho 03-Nov-15 06:32
Re: Good to see some authors I readily recognize. 421 Aine 03-Nov-15 16:09
Re: Good to see some authors I readily recognize. 509 Ratcho 03-Nov-15 16:21
Re: Good to see some authors I readily recognize. 466 Aine 03-Nov-15 16:38
Re: Good to see some authors I readily recognize. 442 thirdpal 03-Nov-15 19:33
Re: Good to see some authors I readily recognize. 403 Aine 03-Nov-15 19:39
Re: Good to see some authors I readily recognize. 428 thirdpal 03-Nov-15 19:53
Re: Good to see some authors I readily recognize. 444 Aine 03-Nov-15 20:03
Re: Good to see some authors I readily recognize. 451 thirdpal 03-Nov-15 20:22
Re: Good to see some authors I readily recognize. 433 Aine 03-Nov-15 20:33
Re: Good to see some authors I readily recognize. 408 laughin 06-Nov-15 00:49
Re: Good to see some authors I readily recognize. 466 Aine 06-Nov-15 14:33
Re: Good to see some authors I readily recognize. 380 carolb 06-Nov-15 14:53
Re: Good to see some authors I readily recognize. 501 Aine 06-Nov-15 15:00
Re: Good to see some authors I readily recognize. 395 carolb 06-Nov-15 15:25
Re: Good to see some authors I readily recognize. 453 laughin 06-Nov-15 15:55
Re: Good to see some authors I readily recognize. 395 Aine 06-Nov-15 16:52
Re: Good to see some authors I readily recognize. 497 laughin 06-Nov-15 20:31
Re: Good to see some authors I readily recognize. 480 Aine 07-Nov-15 02:19
Re: Good to see some authors I readily recognize. 414 Jim Vieira 11-Nov-15 16:05
Re: Good to see some authors I readily recognize. 482 Aine 11-Nov-15 23:06
Re: Good to see some authors I readily recognize. 462 thirdpal 12-Nov-15 22:07
Re: Good to see some authors I readily recognize. 423 Jim Vieira 13-Nov-15 15:56
Re: Good to see some authors I readily recognize. 486 Aine 13-Nov-15 17:52
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 448 thirdpal 12-Nov-15 23:10
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 449 Jim Vieira 13-Nov-15 13:19
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 446 thirdpal 13-Nov-15 15:54
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 478 Jim Vieira 13-Nov-15 16:06
Re: Thanks to Ted Loukes and welcome Hugh Newman and Jim Vieira 455 thirdpal 13-Nov-15 17:31
Mod Request > New Topics 821 Dr. Troglodyte 13-Nov-15 18:07


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