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In response to Merrell:

Griaule described the Dogon esoteric tradition as a closely-held secret, one that he himself only penetrated after decades of association with the Dogon. This agrees with other cultures I've studied who share key elements of the Dogon cosmology. For example, the Maori in New Zealand share the Dogon concept of the po as a primary component of matter. Elsdon Best wrote in his 1924 book Maori Religion and Mythology:

"[The Maori] taught his ideas of cosmogony by means of a singular allegorical myth showing the origin or growth of matter from chaos, or nothingness, and the gradual evolution of light from darkness. The superior version is to the effect that the Supreme Being brought the universe into being...Two different aspects of all the superior class of myths were taught. One of these was...never disclosed to the bulk of the people, but retained by the higher grade of...experts or priests and by a few others. The other version was that imparted to the people at large, and this, as a rule, was of an inferior nature......In any endeavor to obtain information concerning such matters as we are now discussing it is highly important that the inquirer should have access to the learned men of the community, the few who have been carefully trained in the tribal lore. This calls not only for a knowledge of the native tongue, but also for a long residence among them, ere the men of knowledge acquire sufficient confidence in an alien to induce them to impart such knowledge to him. The ordinary folk of any Maori community know but little of these “higher matters."


One of my problems with Professor Van Beek's work is that, having found no evidence of Griaule's cosmology, he didn't address the reasonable possibility that he (Van Beek), in his relatively quick restudy, was perceived as an outsider by the Dogon priests and had simply failed to penetrate the tradition.

The word Dogon has two meanings in the Dogon language: "To complete the words [of the cosmology]", and "to remain silent". Budge documents the same two meanings ("to bring to completion" and "to feign ignorance") for the ancient name for Egypt, Khem

- Laird



Post Edited (07-Apr-14 20:36)

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Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 645 Graham Hancock 30-Mar-14 20:18
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 245 carolb 30-Mar-14 21:09
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 212 DUNE 31-Mar-14 16:29
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 208 carolb 31-Mar-14 18:26
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 169 randompHactor 30-Mar-14 21:56
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 213 michael seabrook 30-Mar-14 22:23
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 195 carolb 30-Mar-14 22:47
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 206 michael seabrook 30-Mar-14 23:08
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 200 carolb 30-Mar-14 23:14
dzosa stones 237 michael seabrook 30-Mar-14 23:39
Re: dzosa stones 157 carolb 31-Mar-14 00:02
Re: dzosa stones 207 Vanya 31-Mar-14 12:12
Re: dzosa stones 206 michael seabrook 31-Mar-14 20:31
Dropa stones 231 Vanya 31-Mar-14 12:05
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 178 BobbyH 30-Mar-14 22:32
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 179 Brian Patterson 31-Mar-14 01:12
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 205 loveritas 31-Mar-14 02:47
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 184 Jon veitch 31-Mar-14 09:43
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 180 Titus Livius 31-Mar-14 11:25
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 215 Loki74 31-Mar-14 11:40
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 228 carolb 31-Mar-14 14:20
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 185 richarddullum 31-Mar-14 14:04
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 219 Jon veitch 31-Mar-14 15:22
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 184 randompHactor 31-Mar-14 16:14
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 303 Jon veitch 31-Mar-14 17:42
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 210 carolb 31-Mar-14 18:54
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 212 Jon veitch 31-Mar-14 20:00
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 197 carolb 31-Mar-14 20:08
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 175 Xaviant Haze 01-Apr-14 10:58
Moderator note 196 JonnyMcA 01-Apr-14 11:33
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 206 Aine 31-Mar-14 19:11
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 183 Laird Scranton 31-Mar-14 16:54
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 200 Laird Scranton 01-Apr-14 12:48
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 199 Brian Patterson 01-Apr-14 14:07
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 177 Laird Scranton 01-Apr-14 17:05
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 206 Aine 01-Apr-14 17:40
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 272 Laird Scranton 01-Apr-14 17:44
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 192 Aine 01-Apr-14 18:44
Wasn't he discredited? 287 Skatha 03-Apr-14 23:12
Re: Wasn't he discredited? 271 Laird Scranton 04-Apr-14 18:11
Yes, he was discredited, and still is 352 Merrell 07-Apr-14 10:06
Re: Yes, he was discredited, and still is 316 Laird Scranton 07-Apr-14 17:15
Re: Yes, he was discredited, and still is 266 PB Bytes 07-Apr-14 17:53
Re: Yes, he was discredited, and still is 203 Laird Scranton 07-Apr-14 20:33
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 342 Graham Hancock 01-Apr-14 18:58
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 219 Laird Scranton 01-Apr-14 19:18
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 346 Graham Hancock 01-Apr-14 19:39
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 198 Laird Scranton 01-Apr-14 19:52
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 335 Graham Hancock 01-Apr-14 20:11
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 218 Laird Scranton 01-Apr-14 21:19
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 205 carolb 01-Apr-14 20:43
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 185 Laird Scranton 01-Apr-14 21:13
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 169 MJT 02-Apr-14 02:16
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 169 Laird Scranton 02-Apr-14 04:40
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 253 Laird Scranton 03-Apr-14 22:05
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 238 carolb 03-Apr-14 22:23
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 196 Laird Scranton 03-Apr-14 22:40
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 196 carolb 03-Apr-14 22:43
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 203 Laird Scranton 03-Apr-14 22:55
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 196 carolb 03-Apr-14 23:14
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 194 Laird Scranton 03-Apr-14 23:18
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 150 eyeofhorus33 03-Apr-14 23:21
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 212 Laird Scranton 03-Apr-14 23:31
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 201 carolb 03-Apr-14 23:52
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 205 Laird Scranton 04-Apr-14 00:26
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 190 carolb 04-Apr-14 00:59
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 208 Laird Scranton 04-Apr-14 04:13
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 208 Laird Scranton 04-Apr-14 05:28
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 189 michael seabrook 05-Apr-14 17:47
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 158 Laird Scranton 05-Apr-14 18:46
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 182 cladking 06-Apr-14 01:02
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 145 PB Bytes 06-Apr-14 01:23
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 145 cladking 06-Apr-14 03:29
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 181 loveritas 06-Apr-14 01:41
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 187 cladking 06-Apr-14 03:31
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 185 MJT 06-Apr-14 10:45
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 141 loveritas 06-Apr-14 11:51
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 207 MJT 06-Apr-14 14:49
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 180 drrayeye 06-Apr-14 18:47
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 181 MJT 06-Apr-14 21:49
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 193 randompHactor 06-Apr-14 23:54
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 189 cladking 07-Apr-14 01:13
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 151 Brian Patterson 07-Apr-14 13:26
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 169 carolb 07-Apr-14 14:28
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 184 Aine 07-Apr-14 14:47
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 174 loveritas 06-Apr-14 23:13
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 173 michael seabrook 06-Apr-14 07:04
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 160 Aine 31-Mar-14 19:37
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 211 carolb 31-Mar-14 21:15
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 155 Laird Scranton 31-Mar-14 22:05
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 203 carolb 31-Mar-14 22:19
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 196 Aine 01-Apr-14 01:20
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 237 Thanos5150 01-Apr-14 04:13
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 160 Ratcho 01-Apr-14 05:57
I don't speak spanish 148 Ratcho 06-Apr-14 07:24
Bravo! 206 randompHactor 01-Apr-14 07:11
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 184 BobbyH 01-Apr-14 14:09
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 453 Graham Hancock 01-Apr-14 14:51
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 205 Xaviant Haze 01-Apr-14 22:26
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 187 Laird Scranton 01-Apr-14 22:31
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 145 Brian Patterson 02-Apr-14 00:40
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 202 Thanos5150 02-Apr-14 05:02
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 328 Graham Hancock 02-Apr-14 17:28
Kudos 178 randompHactor 02-Apr-14 20:46
The key question: how can we define "alien"? 199 Titus Livius 02-Apr-14 22:20
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 176 Audrey 03-Apr-14 04:44
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 204 Thanos5150 05-Apr-14 02:23
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 187 D-Archer 03-Apr-14 10:28
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 194 Aine 03-Apr-14 13:12
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 154 JonnyMcA 03-Apr-14 16:12
Board going strong 222 Misterx 22-Apr-14 11:32
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 142 MJT 01-Apr-14 19:28
Aliens Not Astronauts 179 loveritas 02-Apr-14 02:00
Re: Aliens Not Astronauts 134 MJT 03-Apr-14 09:23
Re: Aliens Not Astronauts 126 loveritas 03-Apr-14 12:32
Re: Aliens Not Astronauts 178 MJT 04-Apr-14 07:58
Re: Aliens Not Astronauts 178 loveritas 04-Apr-14 21:50
Re: Aliens Not Astronauts 193 MJT 04-Apr-14 22:25
Re: Aliens Not Astronauts 151 loveritas 05-Apr-14 01:04
Re: Aliens Not Astronauts 188 MJT 05-Apr-14 12:26
agreed with Loveritas 135 PB Bytes 05-Apr-14 15:34
Re: agreed with Loveritas 184 MJT 05-Apr-14 21:31
Re: agreed with Loveritas 186 PB Bytes 05-Apr-14 22:34
Re: agreed with Loveritas 185 MJT 06-Apr-14 00:18
Re: agreed with Loveritas 185 PB Bytes 06-Apr-14 00:25
Re: agreed with Loveritas 202 MJT 06-Apr-14 09:43
Re: Aliens Not Astronauts 179 carolb 03-Apr-14 13:10
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 174 michael seabrook 02-Apr-14 21:27
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 185 D-Archer 03-Apr-14 10:08
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 191 shando 01-Apr-14 17:01
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 409 PB Bytes 04-Apr-14 05:42
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 238 buzz 05-Apr-14 05:47
Re: Ancient Alien Hypothesis -- what is your best shot? 178 Xaviant Haze 06-Apr-14 20:47


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