> > > It's a matter of degree, Killing humans and whales incurs a
> > > much greater debt than an animal. And a dog or horse or
> > aother
> > > high mammal is much more significant than say, a lizard.
> > so
> > > on down to plants, and plants do have a consciousness, and
> > > there is a karmic debt but that debt is easily burned off
> > > meditation.
> > Soooo all organisms aren't created equal? How fortunate for
> > vegetarians that want to espouse Karmic debt.
> Where did I say all organisms weren't created equally? Everyone
> of us went through the "Wheel of 84"--we began a single-cell
> critters. Some of us are older than others.
Read your "matter of degree" tree of karmic debt above. According to you plants don't rank as high as humans or animals used for meat. How convenient.
> > You never answered whether you would kill to survive.
> I wasn't asked that question.
Somehow I think you wouldn't hesitate to kill a "poor" creature in the wild to survive whether for food or defensive reasons.
>But no, I would not, and I
> wouldn't find myself in that position.
Psychic as well. WOW!! So no chance of plane crash in the wilderness. No chance of having to kill a dog, snake, coyote, etc. to protect yourself or loved ones.
> It's not my karma, same
> as it's not my karma to find myself on a battlefield where I'd
> have to kill or be killed. It's not in the script. It's an "if"
> that has no reality.
I will remind you that you said that if a criminal ever breaks into your house and you "protect" your family.
>Where there is animal life, there is
> usually vegetation. Besides, I've died a million times--I'm not
> going to hanging on to squeeze a few more years out of this.
Sooo brave. Yet I believe you would kill to survive due to human nature.
> As Rumi wrote:
> I died as a mineral and became a plant,
> I died as plant and rose to animal,
> I died as animal and I was Man.
> Why should I fear? When was I less by dying?
> Yet once more I shall die as Man, to soar
> With angels blest; but even from angelhood
> I must pass on: all except God doth perish.
> When I have sacrificed my angel-soul,
> I shall become what no mind e'er conceived.
> Oh, let me not exist! for Non-existence
> Proclaims in organ tones, 'To Him we shall return.'
Nice but you ain't Rumi.
> We are our own judge and jury. It's simple cause and effect.
> The veils that are between our awareness and God-consciousness
> have to be removed for that "enlightenment" to happen. Creating
> more karmic debt adds to the veils. We have to work on peeling
> them away.
So does pride and prejudice. Eating is a natural process that we have to go thru here in this "fallen state" but pride and prejudice is not something necessary to go thru but only a self indulgence.
> > What are the chances that your path is the wrong one?
> Based on what I've experienced to this point, zero. All humans
> have the same subtle anatomy, just as they all have the same
> physical anatomy--the same spinal currents, the same dormant
> kundalini, the same chakras, even the same accupuncture points
> and meridians. Up the spine, through the eye-center and crown
> chakras is the only path, the only way out of this illusory
> consciousness. How could there be another?
How can you insist that there isn't if you haven't reached enlightenment?
Sounds like the patient becoming the doctor after having viewed their own X-ray images.
There are other ways to get there but they aren't your way. Is it a fear that your path might not be the best, or easiest, way?