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David L wrote:


> > > It's a matter of degree, Killing humans and whales incurs a
> > > much greater debt than an animal. And a dog or horse or
> > aother
> > > high mammal is much more significant than say, a lizard.
> And
> > so
> > > on down to plants, and plants do have a consciousness, and
> > > there is a karmic debt but that debt is easily burned off
> by
> > > meditation.

> > Soooo all organisms aren't created equal? How fortunate for
> > vegetarians that want to espouse Karmic debt.
>
> Where did I say all organisms weren't created equally? Everyone
> of us went through the "Wheel of 84"--we began a single-cell
> critters. Some of us are older than others.

Read your "matter of degree" tree of karmic debt above. According to you plants don't rank as high as humans or animals used for meat. How convenient.


> > You never answered whether you would kill to survive.
>
> I wasn't asked that question.

Quote

Somehow I think you wouldn't hesitate to kill a "poor" creature in the wild to survive whether for food or defensive reasons.


>But no, I would not, and I
> wouldn't find myself in that position.

Psychic as well. WOW!! So no chance of plane crash in the wilderness. No chance of having to kill a dog, snake, coyote, etc. to protect yourself or loved ones.

> It's not my karma, same
> as it's not my karma to find myself on a battlefield where I'd
> have to kill or be killed. It's not in the script. It's an "if"
> that has no reality.

I will remind you that you said that if a criminal ever breaks into your house and you "protect" your family.

>Where there is animal life, there is
> usually vegetation. Besides, I've died a million times--I'm not
> going to hanging on to squeeze a few more years out of this.

Sooo brave. Yet I believe you would kill to survive due to human nature.


> As Rumi wrote:
>
> I died as a mineral and became a plant,
> I died as plant and rose to animal,
> I died as animal and I was Man.
> Why should I fear? When was I less by dying?
> Yet once more I shall die as Man, to soar
> With angels blest; but even from angelhood
> I must pass on: all except God doth perish.
> When I have sacrificed my angel-soul,
> I shall become what no mind e'er conceived.
> Oh, let me not exist! for Non-existence
> Proclaims in organ tones, 'To Him we shall return.'

Nice but you ain't Rumi.



> We are our own judge and jury. It's simple cause and effect.
> The veils that are between our awareness and God-consciousness
> have to be removed for that "enlightenment" to happen. Creating
> more karmic debt adds to the veils. We have to work on peeling
> them away.

So does pride and prejudice. Eating is a natural process that we have to go thru here in this "fallen state" but pride and prejudice is not something necessary to go thru but only a self indulgence.


> > What are the chances that your path is the wrong one?
>
> Based on what I've experienced to this point, zero. All humans
> have the same subtle anatomy, just as they all have the same
> physical anatomy--the same spinal currents, the same dormant
> kundalini, the same chakras, even the same accupuncture points
> and meridians. Up the spine, through the eye-center and crown
> chakras is the only path, the only way out of this illusory
> consciousness. How could there be another?

How can you insist that there isn't if you haven't reached enlightenment?
Sounds like the patient becoming the doctor after having viewed their own X-ray images.
There are other ways to get there but they aren't your way. Is it a fear that your path might not be the best, or easiest, way?

Lobo-hotei
lobo


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Subject Views Written By Posted
question of animal entitlements... 176 debraregypt 03-Feb-06 15:18
Re: question of animal entitlements... 74 Gengus 03-Feb-06 16:45
Re: question of animal entitlements... 62 David L 03-Feb-06 16:53
Re: question of animal entitlements... 77 lobo-hotei 03-Feb-06 17:53
Re: question of animal entitlements... 103 David L 03-Feb-06 22:19
Re: question of animal entitlements... 132 lobo-hotei 04-Feb-06 00:40
Re: question of animal entitlements... 120 David L 04-Feb-06 15:50
Re: question of animal entitlements... 128 lobo-hotei 04-Feb-06 18:19
Re: question of animal entitlements... 61 David L 04-Feb-06 21:00
Re: question of animal entitlements... 105 Marduk 04-Feb-06 21:11
Re: question of animal entitlements... 108 David L 05-Feb-06 04:33
Re: question of animal entitlements... 101 Marduk 05-Feb-06 13:20
Re: question of animal entitlements... 127 lobo-hotei 05-Feb-06 19:23
Re: question of animal entitlements... 58 David L 05-Feb-06 22:09
Re: question of animal entitlements... 64 debraregypt 05-Feb-06 22:30
Re: question of animal entitlements... 111 David L 06-Feb-06 04:36
Re: question of animal entitlements... 67 Marduk 06-Feb-06 04:53
Re: question of animal entitlements... 60 come on pilgrim 06-Feb-06 14:08
Re: question of animal entitlements... 102 lobo-hotei 06-Feb-06 03:24
Re: question of animal entitlements... 68 Marduk 06-Feb-06 03:46
Re: question of animal entitlements... 61 David L 06-Feb-06 04:42
Re: question of animal entitlements... 108 debraregypt 06-Feb-06 13:16
Re: question of animal entitlements... 109 Marduk 06-Feb-06 14:57
Re: question of animal entitlements... 102 David L 06-Feb-06 17:49
Re: question of animal entitlements... 85 Marduk 06-Feb-06 17:59
Re: question of animal entitlements... 108 David L 06-Feb-06 18:52
Re: question of animal entitlements... 101 Marduk 06-Feb-06 19:01
Re: question of animal entitlements... 108 David L 06-Feb-06 20:09
Re: question of animal entitlements... 62 Marduk 06-Feb-06 21:15
Re: question of animal entitlements... 115 Raja 06-Feb-06 21:39
Re: question of animal entitlements... 69 Marduk 06-Feb-06 21:41
Re: question of animal entitlements... 114 Raja 06-Feb-06 21:58
Re: question of animal entitlements... 116 debraregypt 06-Feb-06 22:03
Re: question of animal entitlements... 115 David L 06-Feb-06 21:48
Re: question of animal entitlements... 61 David L 06-Feb-06 04:39
Re: question of animal entitlements... 136 lobo-hotei 06-Feb-06 18:38
Re: question of animal entitlements... 110 Raja 06-Feb-06 21:49
Re: question of animal entitlements... 136 lobo-hotei 06-Feb-06 22:04
Re: question of animal entitlements... 111 Marduk 06-Feb-06 22:22
Re: question of animal entitlements... 119 Raja 06-Feb-06 21:34
Re: question of animal entitlements... 87 Marduk 06-Feb-06 21:38
Re: question of animal entitlements... 105 debraregypt 06-Feb-06 21:50
Re: question of animal entitlements... 68 Raja 06-Feb-06 21:51
Re: question of animal entitlements... 115 Marduk 06-Feb-06 22:23
Re: question of animal entitlements... 130 lobo-hotei 06-Feb-06 22:28
Re: question of animal entitlements... 105 Raja 06-Feb-06 22:47
Re: question of animal entitlements... 119 lobo-hotei 06-Feb-06 23:26
Re: question of animal entitlements... 117 debraregypt 07-Feb-06 00:58
Re: question of animal entitlements... 69 debraregypt 07-Feb-06 00:56
advocating devilry.... 109 come on pilgrim 04-Feb-06 00:55
Re: advocating devilry.... 110 David L 04-Feb-06 15:34
Re: advocating devilry.... 113 Gengus 04-Feb-06 16:52
My liver? I've been force-feeding myself to make it succulent for you 62 come on pilgrim 09-Feb-06 00:15
Re: My liver? I've been force-feeding myself to make it succulent for you 101 debraregypt 09-Feb-06 12:34
Re: My liver? I've been force-feeding myself to make it succulent for you 94 debraregypt 09-Feb-06 12:47
Re: My liver? I've been force-feeding myself to make it succulent for you 74 come on pilgrim 09-Feb-06 13:39
Try the Mediterranean diet 62 Raja 09-Feb-06 20:11
Re: Try the Mediterranean diet 62 debraregypt 10-Feb-06 02:31
Re: Try the Mediterranean diet 59 Raja 10-Feb-06 22:22
Re: My liver? I've been force-feeding myself to make it succulent for you 108 Raja 09-Feb-06 13:28
Re: question of animal entitlements... 95 Gengus 03-Feb-06 17:55
Re: question of animal entitlements... 105 debraregypt 03-Feb-06 18:53
Re: question of animal entitlements... 117 Richard Fusniak 03-Feb-06 19:39
Re: question of animal entitlements... 106 quixote 03-Feb-06 20:08
Re: question of animal entitlements... 115 Gengus 03-Feb-06 21:05
Re: question of animal entitlements... 108 quixote 04-Feb-06 07:25
Re: question of animal entitlements... 59 David L 03-Feb-06 22:33
Re: question of animal entitlements... 100 Gengus 03-Feb-06 22:52
Re: question of animal entitlements... 63 Hoppy 05-Feb-06 01:24


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