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stated:
"You state that the Apostles "borrowed" from the Greeks, namely, Philo."

response:
Philo was an influential Platonic Jew, not a Greek.

stated:
"I say, that they (apostles) were actually "sharing" knowledge that was passed down for milennia. The Greeks did already have the philosophies, because it was passed down to them."

response:
Now we're getting somewhere...

stated:
"Did you know that the Greeks are the ancestors of the Hebrews?"

response:
Prove it.
Countless Christians want that to be true in order to vindicate the 'paper god', undermine Greek achievment, and establish the lineage and wisdom of a historical Jesus.

statred:
The Sadducees believed there was "no resurrection".
1Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1Cr 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
1Cr 15:21 For since by man (Adam) [came] death, by man (Jesus) [came] also the resurrection of the dead.
1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: (that is incorruptible blood....Jesus' blood was incorruptible. It was special. It was different)

response:
You and I have already discussed 'Paul's' meaning in this passage, and notice how YOU imply the name 'Jesus' and not Christ, into verse 21.

IN THE GREEK it is clear to me that this passage is primarily speaking of 'spiritual resurrection' and using 'bodily' resurrection as an example. Paul makes this clear in verse 31 when he says "I die daily" and verse 34 when he says 'awake to righteousness" and verse 44 when he says '"own a natural body, rasied a spiritual body". This is symbolic language indicating the rebirth of "The Soul through annointing (Christ)."
Perhaps we'll never agree.

stated:
"John 5:28-29
"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.".
.............So this cannot possibly be refering to a "spiritual resurrection."

response:
Where in John 5 or Acts (possibly a late document) does it indicate a literal BODILY resurrection?
Again, that is your subjective interpretation of it based upon traditional dogma.

stated:
"For if this was referring to merely "spiritual resurrection" then ONLY" the good" would be participating. Therefore this must be referring to another, literal resurrection of the body."

response:
False.
Jewish Platonism teaches an afterdeath 'resurrection' for BOTH good and evil souls. One unto reward, the other unto punishment.
This does not merely indicate a BODILY reward or punishment, but one of the soul.
Philo, like Plato, like Paul, like Mark, like Matthew, etc... equate death and ignorance to sleep, so why does Paul tell us (in 1 Cor 15) to 'awake to righteousnes'?

I'll tell you.

To escape the death of the soul.
Paul dies (and sleeps) daily so that his soul (and body) may live, but Paul realizes that his soul is incorporeal (eternal) and his body is corporeal (temporary).

It is literalist Christianity that is rivited to the corporeal, and hopes for it's own corporeal eternal resurrection. Our afterlife is a mystery only meant for the soul (incorporeal) to experience and the mind to grasp.
The body must perish to liberate the mind. Plato 101.

That said, it is probable that Platonic reincarnation and traditional Judaic resurrection muxed together to created the Christian concept of resurrection complete with a 'corporeal body' by the time of 100 AD and Revelation.

Indeed the judgement 'Lake of Fire" and 1000 years of Revelation probably derived from the doctrine of reincarnation according to Plato.

Here is Plato' and Philo's rendition of the afterlife judgement:

Plato:
"this is the lake to the shores of which the souls
of the many go when they are dead, and after waiting an appointed time, which is to some a longer and to some a shorter time, they are sent back again to be born as animals. The third river rises between the two, and near the place of rising pours into a vast region of fire, and forms a lake larger than the Mediterranean Sea, boiling with water and mud ;.....and after making many coils about the earth plunges into Tartarus at a deeper level. This is that Pyriphlegethon, as the stream is called, which throws up jets of fire in all sorts of places."

Plato:
"Then he beheld and saw on one side the souls departing at either opening of heaven and earth when sentence had been given on them ; and at the two other openings other souls, some ascending out of the earth dusty and worn with travel, some descending out of heaven clean and bright.........And they told one another of what had happened by the way, those from below weeping and sorrowing at the remembrance of the things which they had endured and seen in their journey beneath the earth (now the journey lasted A THOUSAND YEARS), while those from
above were describing heavenly delights and visions of inconceivable beauty......Thus shall we live dear to one another and to the gods, both while remaining here and when, like conquerors in the games who go round to gather gifts, we receive our reward. And it shall be well
with us both in this life and in the pilgrimage of A THOUSAND YEARS which we have been describing."

Philo:
"It is not possible with God that a wicked man should lose his good reward for a single good thing which he may have done among a great number of evil actions; nor, on the other hand, that a good man should escape punishment, and not suffer it, if among many good actions he has done wickedly in anything, for it is infallibly certain that God distributes everything according to a just weight and balance."

Philo:
"Very naturally some who have been wise enough to arrive at correct notions of the truth, have described sleep as a thing to teach us to meditate upon death, and a shadow and outline of the resurrection which is hereafter to follow, for it bears in itself visible images of both conditions, for it removes the same man from his state of perfection and brings him back to it."

You did not answer the question form my last post.
Have you read thoroughly the passages of Philo from my previous post?
Again.
How do you explain all of these LITERARY parallels, epecially in light of the educational system of Paul's day?

peace,

wireloop

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Origional Sin 688 degiem1 20-Jul-04 04:03
Re: Origional Sin 243 Mercury Rapids 20-Jul-04 11:40
Satan 225 Petros Koutoupis 20-Jul-04 14:27
Re: Satan 237 Mercury Rapids 20-Jul-04 14:49
Re: Satan 158 Mark Staab 27-Jul-04 18:15
Re: Origional Sin 199 Lee McGiffen 20-Jul-04 12:21
Re: Origional Sin 202 David L 20-Jul-04 15:12
Re: Origional Sin 216 wireloop 20-Jul-04 16:20
Re: Origional Sin 221 fiascohoho 21-Jul-04 07:39
Re: Origional Sin 214 Milo 21-Jul-04 09:58
Re: Origional Sin 205 degiem1 21-Jul-04 16:18
Re: Origional Sin 225 Mercury Rapids 21-Jul-04 17:18
Re: Origional Sin 227 Milo 21-Jul-04 18:53
Re: Origional Sin 241 wireloop 21-Jul-04 19:08
Re: Origional Sin 233 degiem1 21-Jul-04 20:24
Re: Origional Sin 228 wireloop 21-Jul-04 21:27
Re: Origional Sin 240 Milo 21-Jul-04 21:48
Re: Origional Sin 190 wireloop 22-Jul-04 03:09
Re: Origional Sin 238 Kboldt 22-Jul-04 15:14
Re: Origional Sin 247 wireloop 22-Jul-04 16:05
Re: Origional Sin 205 Lee McGiffen 22-Jul-04 07:39
Re: Original Sin 234 Myrina 25-Jul-04 16:59
Re: Original Sin 194 degiem1 25-Jul-04 22:27
Re: GASP ! 236 Myrina 25-Jul-04 23:33
Re: Original Sin 224 Kboldt 26-Jul-04 14:30
Re: Original Sin 240 degiem1 26-Jul-04 16:12
Re: Original Sin 236 Kboldt 26-Jul-04 16:16
Re: Original Sin 210 Mark Staab 26-Jul-04 17:13
Re: Original Sin 204 wireloop 26-Jul-04 21:26
Re: Original Sin 164 essenerev 30-Jul-04 17:23
Re: Original Sin 204 Kboldt 26-Jul-04 14:28
Re: Origional Sin 221 debraregypt 22-Jul-04 01:51
Re: Origional Sin 222 degiem1 22-Jul-04 05:54
Re: Origional Sin 207 degiem1 22-Jul-04 06:04
Re: Origional Sin 207 Rob R 22-Jul-04 09:42
Re: Origional Sin 220 Brandon E. 22-Jul-04 05:10
Re: Original Sin 185 Lee McGiffen 22-Jul-04 07:33
Re: Original Sin 222 Kboldt 22-Jul-04 15:34
Re: Original Sin 245 Lee McGiffen 23-Jul-04 12:29
Re: Original Sin 220 Kboldt 23-Jul-04 12:45
Re: Original Sin 186 wireloop 23-Jul-04 17:06
Re: Original Sin 187 Kboldt 23-Jul-04 18:41
Re: Original Sin 221 wireloop 23-Jul-04 20:49
Re: Original Sin 192 Kboldt 23-Jul-04 21:27
Re: Original Sin 193 wireloop 23-Jul-04 21:51
LINKS BROKEN 180 wireloop 23-Jul-04 21:54
Re: LINKS BROKEN 207 Kboldt 23-Jul-04 22:12
Re: Original Sin 188 SunSword 23-Jul-04 21:26
Re: Original Sin 231 Kboldt 23-Jul-04 21:31
Check these out, also.... 224 Kboldt 23-Jul-04 21:54
Re: Original Sin 222 SunSword 23-Jul-04 22:25
Re: Original Sin 176 Kboldt 26-Jul-04 14:14
Re: Original Sin 221 Mark Staab 24-Jul-04 05:55
Re: Original Sin 193 wireloop 25-Jul-04 05:36
Re: Original Sin 226 Mark Staab 27-Jul-04 07:28
Re: Origional Sin 228 Eddie Larry 27-Jul-04 04:04
Re: Origional Sin 311 gibbor 27-Jul-04 15:18
Re: Origional Sin 222 Mercury Rapids 27-Jul-04 16:06
Re: Origional Sin 237 marduk 04-Aug-04 15:03
Re: Origional Sin 201 Rockhoundfacs 06-Aug-04 15:12
Re: Origional Sin 211 Anne-Marie 06-Aug-04 19:47
Re: Origional Sin 195 Kboldt 06-Aug-04 20:01
Re: Origional Sin 226 Anne-Marie 06-Aug-04 20:06
Re: Origional Sin 225 Kboldt 06-Aug-04 20:22
Re: Origional Sin 208 degiem1 06-Aug-04 22:42
Re: Origional Sin 217 marduk 06-Aug-04 15:28
Re: Origional Sin 231 Anne-Marie 06-Aug-04 19:28
Re: Origional Sin 254 Rockhoundfacs 07-Aug-04 03:46
Re: Origional Sin 242 marduk 07-Aug-04 11:51
Re: Origional Sin 313 essenerev 10-Aug-04 23:03


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