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>"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day" (Jn 6:44).

>...The implication also, to me, is that no amount of proselytizing on my part (or Jesus' part, for that matter, two millennia ago) will convince another of his claim to be the Son of God except the Father himself give this person conviction of the same. This would also imply that no written history or oral account has that power either, whether it stem from India, West Africa or the Middle East.

>So then, if you also recognize this, what was the point of the so-called, "Great Commission," to go forth and preach the gospel to the whole world? Why was it necessary to forestall the end until this had been accomplished? Or is this doctrine one of those pearls of consensus got of Constantine's lock-up in Nicaea?"

Well, look at it this way. You are told the story, and if God the Father moves you, you believe it. Or maybe you believe it anyway. Or maybe you don't. But --- if you never HEAR the story, then you don't have the option to believe it, and God the Father never has the chance to convince you. Okay?

And no...there are now enough original manuscripts scientifically dated to the 2nd century AD that scholars have pretty much concluded that the gospels as translated today do accurately reflect the 2nd century manuscripts. Even 50 years ago people could say with conviction that the gospels were manufactured by "the church" in the 4th and 5th centuries, and lots of stuff was added, deleted, or whatever. Today we know that assertion is false.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
The Origin of Christ! 987 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 13:41
Re: The Origin of Christ! 214 Milo 10-Feb-04 16:34
Re: The Origin of Christ! 200 Mark Staab 10-Feb-04 17:20
Re: The Origin of Christ! 252 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 17:26
Re: The Origin of Christ! 256 Mark Staab 10-Feb-04 17:36
Re: The Origin of Christ! 236 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 18:08
Re: The Origin of Christ! 250 Milo 10-Feb-04 17:43
Re: The Origin of Christ! 212 Mark Staab 10-Feb-04 21:53
Re: The Origin of Christ! 253 Milo 10-Feb-04 22:54
Re: The Origin of Christ! 254 Mark Staab 11-Feb-04 03:12
Re: The Origin of Christ! 191 Milo 11-Feb-04 04:57
For Mark Staab !!! 242 Milo 13-Feb-04 00:01
Re: For Mark Staab !!! 213 Mark Staab 13-Feb-04 00:31
Re: For Mark Staab !!! 174 Milo 13-Feb-04 01:16
Re: For Mark Staab !!! 274 Mark Staab 13-Feb-04 02:40
Re: For Mark Staab !!! 225 Milo 13-Feb-04 05:25
Re-search 240 Mark Staab 13-Feb-04 07:36
Re: Re-search 223 Nebankh 13-Feb-04 09:56
Re: Re-search 221 Mark Staab 13-Feb-04 21:08
Re: Re-search 188 Milo 14-Feb-04 00:33
Re: Re-search 219 Milo 14-Feb-04 00:30
Re: Re-search 235 Mark Staab 15-Feb-04 07:39
Re: The Origin of Christ! 305 SunSword 22-Feb-04 00:37
Re: The Origin of Christ! 267 Mark Staab 22-Feb-04 06:49
Re: The Origin of Christ! 266 SunSword 24-Feb-04 01:24
Re: The Origin of Christ! 388 Mark Staab 24-Feb-04 05:17
Satan/Grail 243 Cleopatra 11-Feb-04 11:24
Re: Satan/Grail 223 Milo 11-Feb-04 15:06
Re: Satan/Grail 242 Cleopatra 11-Feb-04 15:42
Re: Satan/Grail 251 Milo 11-Feb-04 15:57
Satan/Hell and The Dice Man 260 Cleopatra 11-Feb-04 17:31
Re: Satan/Hell and The Dice Man 207 Milo 11-Feb-04 17:44
Re: Satan/Hell and The Dice Man 253 Cleopatra 11-Feb-04 18:17
Re: The Origin of Christ! 194 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 17:23
Re: The Origin of Christ! 256 adequatedane 10-Feb-04 21:05
Re: The Origin of Christ! 185 Milo 10-Feb-04 21:12
Re: The Origin of Christ! 228 adequatedane 11-Feb-04 03:06
Re: The Origin of Christ! 220 Milo 11-Feb-04 05:03
Re: The Origin of Christ! 294 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 23:29
Re: The Origin of Christ! 241 Milo 10-Feb-04 23:36
Re: The Origin of Christ! 300 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 23:52
Re: The Origin of Christ! 231 Milo 10-Feb-04 23:59
Re: The Origin of Christ! 237 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 01:00
Re: The Origin of Christ! 182 Milo 11-Feb-04 01:09
Re: The Origin of Christ! 220 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 01:54
Re: The Origin of Christ! 191 Milo 11-Feb-04 02:10
Re: The Origin of Christ! 247 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 02:59
Re: The Origin of Christ! 283 Milo 11-Feb-04 05:21
Re: The Origin of Christ! 228 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 11:13
Re: The Origin of Christ! 220 Milo 11-Feb-04 15:10
Re: about Mexican Freemasonry 225 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 20:29
The Blue Light from the East! 182 Milo 11-Feb-04 22:37
Re: The Blue Light from the East! 273 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 23:33
Re: The Blue Light from the East! 217 Milo 12-Feb-04 00:03
Re: The Blue Light from the East! 232 gene douglas 12-Feb-04 00:52
Re: The Blue Light from the East! 258 Milo 12-Feb-04 00:58
Re: The Origin of Christ! 209 debraregypt 11-Feb-04 02:06
Re: The Origin of Christ! 236 adequatedane 11-Feb-04 03:32
Re: The Origin of Christ! 243 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 08:34
Re: The Origin of Christ! 238 David L 10-Feb-04 23:53
Re: The Origin of Christ! 255 Milo 11-Feb-04 00:02
Re: The Origin of Christ! 249 David L 11-Feb-04 00:09
Re: The Origin of Christ! 273 Milo 11-Feb-04 00:12
Re: The Origin of Christ! 234 David L 11-Feb-04 00:21
Re: The Origin of Christ! 235 Milo 11-Feb-04 00:38
Re: The Origin of Christ! 234 David L 11-Feb-04 02:43
Re: The Origin of Christ! 224 Milo 11-Feb-04 05:39
Re: The Origin of Christ! 214 maria k. 11-Feb-04 06:16
Re: The Origin of Christ! 233 Milo 11-Feb-04 06:31
MOD remark to whom it may concern 214 Kees 12-Feb-04 09:12
Re: The Origin of Christ! 237 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 09:01
Re: The Origin of Christ! 248 Anne-Marie 22-Feb-04 07:54
Re: The Origin of Christ! 272 Milo 22-Feb-04 12:54
The snake never evolved compassion 242 Milo 22-Feb-04 14:06
Re: The snake never evolved compassion 263 Anne-Marie 22-Feb-04 19:27
Re: The snake never evolved compassion 238 Milo 22-Feb-04 20:47
Re: The snake never evolved compassion 250 Anne-Marie 23-Feb-04 07:26
Re: The snake never evolved compassion 237 Milo 23-Feb-04 15:21
Re: The Origin of Christ! 238 Mark Staab 23-Feb-04 08:06
Re: The Origin of Christ! 231 adequatedane 11-Feb-04 03:15
Re: The Origin of Christ! 281 Dominick Ohrbeck 11-Feb-04 01:45
Re: The Origin of Christ! 220 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 02:06
Re: The Origin of Christ! 271 Dominick Ohrbeck 11-Feb-04 22:40
Re: The Origin of Christ! 233 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 23:58
Re: The Origin of Christ! 279 gene douglas 12-Feb-04 00:32
Re: The Origin of Christ! 194 Dominick Ohrbeck 12-Feb-04 01:35
Re: The Origin of Christ! 286 OakeyDokey 10-Feb-04 21:21
Re: The Origin of Christ! 226 Segestan 10-Feb-04 23:26
Re: The Origin of Christ! 222 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 23:37
Re: The Origin of Christ! 214 David L 10-Feb-04 23:47
Re: The Origin of Christ! 258 Saorsa 12-Feb-04 09:28
Re: The Origin of Christ! 230 David L 12-Feb-04 20:27
Re: The Origin of Christ! 235 Saorsa 23-Feb-04 08:12
Re: The Origin of Christ! 239 jestahley3 16-Feb-04 05:58
Re: The Origin of Christ! 210 Milo 16-Feb-04 12:05


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