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Hi MIlo,

Milo wrote:
> Generally speaking, I think music reached its highest apogee,
> its highest point, in the 19th century. The culture of the
> 20th century became inundated with technology, electronic
> music and mass media and the fertile mind, has become less as
> common as it was in the 19th century. Great music is designed
> ultimately to reach up to a higher level, so that we become
> transfigured... music has the potential to change our lives!

I should clarify that when I mentioned that most music was electronic I meant that our experience of it whether Gregorian chant, Field Hollars or whatever, all recorded music is electronic, even most live music uses amplification, PA systems. Most of us are geared towards this type of experience to the point where just sitting playing a piano, guitar, etc. has an air of unreality about it. One wonders what we sound like and trust a recording after the fact more than our ears in the moment. Recordings of symphonic music are some of the most artificial there are, as they're said to be without overdubs, but we know there are frequent minute edits to bring the performance closer to some unrealizable ideal of perfection.

The 19th C, really the Romantic period, represented the apogee of a certain type of vertical music developed since the advent of the tempered scale. Composers took the modulation of chords into different keys and the construction of traditional harmony as far as it could go. To say this was the highest point of music though is a very ethno-centric and class oriented idea. It pretends that most of the world doesn't exist and even within the narrow western confinesof Europe and America that only the bourgeoisie and upper classes count. Your average person in the 19th C had no opportunity to even be exposed to the music you love. The same people who patronized symphonies and operas were those that were the slave owners and exploited the poor for profit. The great music of the European tradition far from uplifting people spiritually served the status quo.
>
> In the 20th century, if one examines the popular culture,
> mankind has forgotten who it is more so than in previous
> times. Hormones ruin everything and it certainly holds us
> down. We are of the musical essence but we've become so
> enamoured of our physical existence, we've forgotten who we
> are to the extent it's hard for us to get back to a higher
> awareness and that's a lesson not lost on those that would
> seek to control and subjugate us and keep us in what we could
> call, a modestly comfortable level, in terms of most peoples'
> lifestyle. They like the attachments of the body and all
> things physical and we are ever more primitive, it would
> seem, if we examine popular culture, the entertainment, the
> music, the media - it's not exactly reaching for higher
> ideals. It's reaching for reproduction in many different
> guises. Music should elevate people instead of bringing them
> to a lower state!

I think people respond to different music in very different ways. One person's spiritual sublimity is another's bete noire. I think that's okay. Look at Deano's response elewhere on this thread. He finds the sublime in Lynard Skynard, whereas to me they were little more than redneck thugs writing songs upholding unpalatable ideas about the south. I'm not criticising Deano's interest in them, people should find their spirit wherever they can. I point it out because it speaks to the essential subjectivity of the appeal of culture. If Lynard Skynard elevates Deano that's great, who am I to suggest otherwise. I think you're succumbing to a nostalgia for what never was, imbuing people of earlier centuries with qualities they didn't possess. For all it's faults the 20th C has promoted more equality of access to culture than ever before. An interesting argument could be made of the impact on today's youth culture by the democratising affect of post war UK governments giving working class kids the option to attend art school rather than be shunted off to work in factories. It's amazing how much of the British invasion was just those kinds of kids and without them Americans might never have discovered the wealth in their own folk and blues traditions. Our country was too racially stratified to pick up on our black music without it being sold back to us by white foreigners. You I guess see that music as part of the problem, the control and manipulation mechanisms that hold us down, but I think you're confusing the spirit of the music with it's commodification. That the elites have attempted to commodify and sell the trappings of rebellion without its substance is no surprise, but has it entirely worked? I find much more questioning of paradigms among those who listen to jazz, rock, folk, ethnic, or the so-called art music of the 20th C than I do with those with elitist ideas about how music died with Mahler, or whoever. You are something of an anomaly as far as that goes. I can't take that narrow a view of it. I usually have an instinctive reaction to music and then become curious as to what about it appeals or doesn't and find there are a great many answers to both those questions and they may all miss the point.

Briffits

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 661 Jergat 09-Feb-04 08:32
Moderator note 210 Richard Fusniak 09-Feb-04 19:18
Re: Moderator note 199 Jergat 09-Feb-04 22:13
Re: Moderator note 186 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 00:23
Re: Moderator note 188 fiascohoho 10-Feb-04 00:30
Re: Moderator note 193 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 00:50
Re: Moderator note 187 fiascohoho 10-Feb-04 02:17
About the moderation process 194 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 02:54
Re: About the moderation process 187 fiascohoho 10-Feb-04 03:07
Re: About the moderation process 203 Cleopatra 10-Feb-04 20:10
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 188 Hoppy 10-Feb-04 00:59
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 190 fiascohoho 10-Feb-04 02:38
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 171 Jergat 10-Feb-04 05:36
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 249 Briffits 10-Feb-04 09:27
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 206 Milo 10-Feb-04 16:17
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 204 Paul Cochrane 10-Feb-04 17:48
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 188 Milo 10-Feb-04 18:11
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 182 David L 10-Feb-04 18:36
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 176 Milo 10-Feb-04 18:46
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 193 Paul Cochrane 10-Feb-04 18:43
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 173 Briffits 10-Feb-04 22:12
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 187 Milo 10-Feb-04 23:05
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 189 Briffits 11-Feb-04 00:03
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 184 Milo 11-Feb-04 00:07
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 183 Briffits 11-Feb-04 10:25
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 188 Milo 11-Feb-04 15:19
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 178 Briffits 11-Feb-04 20:19
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 178 Milo 11-Feb-04 23:01
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 181 Briffits 12-Feb-04 00:23
Henceforth and forthwith... 198 Milo 12-Feb-04 00:53
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 181 Milo 11-Feb-04 17:08
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 183 Briffits 11-Feb-04 19:17
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 183 Milo 11-Feb-04 19:30
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 189 Hoppy 10-Feb-04 14:55
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 189 David L 10-Feb-04 01:23
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 199 Milo 10-Feb-04 02:15
Music from other spheres 199 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 02:59
Re: Music from other spheres 178 Milo 10-Feb-04 03:11
Possibly wrong again 181 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 03:15
Re: Possibly wrong again 183 Milo 10-Feb-04 03:24
Musical mediums 184 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 12:58
Musical plane 198 Kees 10-Feb-04 13:53
Re: Musical plane 184 Milo 10-Feb-04 15:48
Re: Musical plane 190 Kees 10-Feb-04 16:10
Re: Musical mediums 177 Milo 10-Feb-04 15:49
Re: Musical mediums 194 Thirdwave 10-Feb-04 16:14
Re: Musical mediums 194 Milo 10-Feb-04 16:25
Re: Musical mediums 186 Thirdwave 10-Feb-04 19:02
Re: Musical mediums 178 Milo 10-Feb-04 19:10
Poo-Pooing "channels" 182 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 22:19
Re: Poo-Pooing 180 Milo 10-Feb-04 23:09
Re: Possibly wrong again 185 fiascohoho 10-Feb-04 03:49
Talking of Bach.... 188 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 09:29
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 187 David L 10-Feb-04 18:32
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 174 Milo 10-Feb-04 18:58
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 189 fiascohoho 10-Feb-04 02:29
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 199 David L 10-Feb-04 18:39
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 191 Milo 10-Feb-04 19:01
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 186 David L 10-Feb-04 19:12
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 192 Milo 10-Feb-04 19:20
Gifts 164 Jergat 10-Feb-04 20:44
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 192 David L 10-Feb-04 23:35
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 234 Saorsa 10-Feb-04 14:38
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 180 David L 10-Feb-04 19:05
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 239 Saorsa 11-Feb-04 08:29
Pray Mr. Lamond, tell me... 204 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 15:05
Re: Pray Mr. Lamond, tell me... 187 David L 10-Feb-04 18:51
Re: Pray Mr. Lamond, tell me... 189 Milo 10-Feb-04 19:04
Re: Pray Mr. Lamond, tell me... 178 David L 10-Feb-04 19:13
Listening By Numbers 210 Thirdwave 10-Feb-04 15:20
Re: Listening By Numbers 190 David L 10-Feb-04 19:19
Re: Listening By Numbers 178 Thirdwave 10-Feb-04 19:43
Re: Listening By Numbers 191 David L 10-Feb-04 23:39
Re: Listening By Numbers 184 Briffits 11-Feb-04 03:11
Re: Listening By Numbers 185 Thirdwave 12-Feb-04 17:46
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 187 Kees 10-Feb-04 15:25
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 183 Hoppy 10-Feb-04 18:36
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 211 Mark Staab 11-Feb-04 06:08
Work work work 191 Kees 11-Feb-04 10:36
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 174 David L 10-Feb-04 19:24
Books 181 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 22:36
Re: Books 177 David L 10-Feb-04 23:44
Teachers 187 Richard Fusniak 11-Feb-04 02:08
Re: Teachers 184 David L 11-Feb-04 03:07
Re: Teachers 191 Kees 11-Feb-04 10:16
Re: Teachers 180 David L 11-Feb-04 17:47
The yoga of sound 198 Kees 11-Feb-04 21:55
Re: The yoga of sound 182 David L 11-Feb-04 22:07
Small world indeed 177 Kees 11-Feb-04 22:42
Re: Teachers 187 Richard Fusniak 11-Feb-04 23:24
Re: Teachers 181 David L 12-Feb-04 01:49
Spirtual arrogance and delusion 191 Richard Fusniak 12-Feb-04 02:18
An apology 183 Richard Fusniak 12-Feb-04 12:34
Re: An apology 175 fisherman 12-Feb-04 16:11
Re: An apology 212 David L 12-Feb-04 19:46
The wheel of life. 186 Richard Fusniak 13-Feb-04 01:32
The Catapillar and the Butterfly 189 Milo 13-Feb-04 01:35
Re: The Catapillar and the Butterfly 395 David L 13-Feb-04 02:52
Re: The wheel of life. 184 David L 13-Feb-04 02:50
Re: Teachers 183 Hoppy 11-Feb-04 03:19
Re: Teachers 189 David L 11-Feb-04 17:48
Re: Teachers 184 Hoppy 11-Feb-04 20:08


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