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Cesar wrote:
>
> Hi David,
>
> A few questions...
> What would you concider to be the youngest age one is to be
> initiated? What do you think of a surcumstance where a young
> child is initiated; would you say that if it's time it's time
> and that all things have their time and if ones ready they
> are indeed ready?

The youngest one I know of is a 7 year-old girl.(she's 8 or 9 now) My daughter was initiated fully at ten. I say "fully" because my teacher sometimes gives partial initiations. Age has nothing to do with it... When they're ready, they're ready. Now...a person still may have a lot of karma to burn through after initiation. Obviously a pre-teen child is going to have to go through the same things every young person does...in my case, I went through a lot before initiation, in other cases, people go through these things after initiation. That's the karma, the teacher knows the karma--all of it, every lifetime--and acts appropriately and accordingly. It is the Holy Spirit, the Shabd coming through the teacher, and no mistakes can be made if the teacher is real.
There are children in the world today thatt are so much more evolved, so much "older" souls than 99.999% of the adults... Like I said--age cuts no ice on the spiritual path. It's about "What level are they? What is the state of their awareness?"

> What do you think the simplest form of initiation is?, is
> simply saying a few things that open the door to a whole
> other world of occurance due to things said which cause one
> to think and advance in an alternative way to that of which
> they would have without conciderable by you as an initiation?

Words do not open any doors. A mantra is for occupying the mind--the left-brain part of us--with the purpose of stilling or slowing down the endless mental stream of chatter that we all have in our heads.
What opens doors is what the teacher does on an inner level, invisible to the initiate. Most of what an initiate needs, they already have before initiation. The teacher brings it to the fore in the initiates waking consciousness. We are all connected to God before initiation, but the longing for God and the path to God need to be jump-started. Sometimes this happens before initiation, but it never happens as a result of the effort of the seeker. It is always grace from God--directly from the Shabd, or through the teacher--and they are rreally one and the same, anyway.

> What word do you use for 'earth energy vortexi'?) when one is
> experiencing the oneness with the earth element as this one
> is the one in which something other than 'normal' occures as
> opposed to the 'normalcy' of the oneness of the other elements.

I can't help with this because I don't experience the elements the way you seem to be. The mystical elements originate in the region of Mind--they come down through all the mental and astral and etheric levels and combine to make up the creation. We have all of them in us--earth air fire water ether. Different beings--species--have different combinations of these "tattwas". In meditation, we may experience them as blobs or flashes of color. That's about all I can tell you.
David

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Questions about Truth 748 adequatedane 24-Jan-04 10:24
Re: Questions about Truth 179 Segestan 24-Jan-04 14:00
Re: Questions about Truth 172 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 08:38
Re: Questions about Truth 212 gene douglas 24-Jan-04 14:57
Re: Questions about Truth 178 Alex S 25-Jan-04 01:13
Re: Questions about Truth 179 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 04:04
Re: Questions about Truth 189 Alex S 26-Jan-04 01:18
Re: Questions about Truth 199 gene douglas 26-Jan-04 02:14
Re: Questions about Truth 185 Alex S 27-Jan-04 01:57
Re: Questions about Truth 176 gene douglas 27-Jan-04 09:44
Re: Questions about Truth 167 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 08:34
Re: Questions about Truth 198 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 08:42
Re: Questions about Truth 186 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 10:05
Re: Questions about Truth 181 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 11:21
Re: Questions about Truth 173 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 15:40
Re: Questions about Truth 200 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 16:14
Re: Questions about Truth 182 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 17:06
Re: Questions about Truth 170 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 21:51
Re: Questions about Truth 187 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 22:50
Re: Questions about Truth 172 David L 24-Jan-04 15:55
Re: Questions about Truth 168 newrisingsun 24-Jan-04 17:32
Re: Questions about Truth 179 RichardC 24-Jan-04 23:40
Re: Questions about Truth 198 David L 25-Jan-04 03:46
Re: Questions about Truth 175 RichardC 25-Jan-04 19:45
Re: Questions about Truth 181 David L 25-Jan-04 20:49
Re: Questions about Truth 199 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 09:37
Re: Questions about Truth 180 David L 25-Jan-04 17:31
Re: Questions about Truth 167 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 22:55
Re: Questions about Truth 187 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 23:04
Re: Questions about Truth 163 David L 28-Jan-04 23:28
Re: Questions about Truth 170 adequatedane 29-Jan-04 23:01
Re: Questions about Truth 177 wirelessguru1 29-Jan-04 23:26
Re: Questions about Truth 187 David L 30-Jan-04 03:24
Re: Questions about Truth 195 wirelessguru1 30-Jan-04 03:48
Re: Questions about Truth 202 David L 30-Jan-04 22:32
Re: Questions about Truth 172 wirelessguru1 31-Jan-04 00:30
Re: Questions about Truth 168 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 21:01
Re: Questions about Truth 189 David L 30-Jan-04 22:24
Re: Questions about Truth 177 banah 31-Jan-04 09:13
Re: Questions about Truth 173 David L 31-Jan-04 14:20
Re: Questions about Truth 198 banah 31-Jan-04 20:20
Re: Questions about Truth 182 David L 01-Feb-04 01:59
Jesus didn't say anything of the sort 172 Richard Fusniak 01-Feb-04 14:28
Re: Jesus didn't say anything of the sort 224 banah 01-Feb-04 17:21
Re: Questions about Truth 170 Zurg 03-Feb-04 08:12
Re: Questions about Truth 164 banah 04-Feb-04 10:58
Re: Questions about Truth 198 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 10:17
Re: Questions about Truth 181 banah 31-Jan-04 09:20
Re: Questions about Truth 195 David L 30-Jan-04 03:26
We don't live in a "true or false" world... 176 David L 30-Jan-04 03:30
Re: We don't live in a "true or false" world... 198 banah 31-Jan-04 09:27
Re: We don't live in a "true or false" world... 178 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 10:53
Re: We don't live in a "true or false" world... 167 David L 31-Jan-04 13:38
Re: We don't live in a "true or false" world... 177 banah 31-Jan-04 20:47
Re: Questions about Truth 152 RichardC 24-Jan-04 23:50
Re: Questions about Truth 214 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 09:48
Re: Questions about Truth 201 RichardC 25-Jan-04 19:49
Re: Questions about Truth 188 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:00
Re: Questions about Truth 210 RichardC 26-Jan-04 23:32
Re: Questions about Truth 187 banah 25-Jan-04 17:56
Re: Questions about Truth 174 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:24
No such thing 186 Nejc 25-Jan-04 23:13
Re: No such thing 191 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:40
Re: No such thing 175 Alex S 27-Jan-04 14:13
Re: No such thing 173 gene douglas 27-Jan-04 19:01
Re: Questions about Truth 191 Mark Staab 25-Jan-04 23:35
Re: Questions about Truth 177 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 00:15
Re: Questions about Truth 179 Mark Staab 27-Jan-04 02:00
Re: Questions about Truth 176 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 22:40
Re: Questions about Truth 190 banah 30-Jan-04 19:40
Re: Questions about Truth 169 Mark Staab 30-Jan-04 22:22
Re: Questions about Truth 184 banah 31-Jan-04 11:05
Re: Questions about Truth 220 Mark Staab 01-Feb-04 06:33
Re: Questions about Truth 215 banah 01-Feb-04 11:48
Re: Questions about Truth 179 adequatedane 01-Feb-04 16:06
Re: Questions about Truth 167 banah 01-Feb-04 17:25
Re: Questions about Truth 187 adequatedane 02-Feb-04 23:58
Re: Questions about Truth 189 banah 04-Feb-04 11:04
Re: Questions about Truth 180 adequatedane 05-Feb-04 22:26
Re: Questions about Truth 165 banah 07-Feb-04 13:19
Re: Questions about Truth 200 adequatedane 07-Feb-04 14:47
Re: ps 173 banah 01-Feb-04 17:29
Re: Questions about Truth 170 Mark Staab 01-Feb-04 23:42
Re: Questions about Truth 167 banah 04-Feb-04 11:07
Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 188 David L 01-Feb-04 21:33
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 198 Mark Staab 02-Feb-04 02:09
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 226 David L 02-Feb-04 23:50
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 178 Mark Staab 03-Feb-04 05:57
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 207 David L 03-Feb-04 16:11
Regarding the Old Testament... 166 David L 03-Feb-04 16:19
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 179 banah 04-Feb-04 10:45
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 163 David L 04-Feb-04 13:49
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 188 Mark Staab 05-Feb-04 00:38
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 167 David L 05-Feb-04 01:07
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 195 banah 05-Feb-04 16:48
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 189 David L 05-Feb-04 19:51
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 179 wirelessguru1 06-Feb-04 00:50
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 204 David L 06-Feb-04 01:49
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 187 wirelessguru1 06-Feb-04 02:24
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 164 Anne-Marie 06-Feb-04 07:36
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 185 adequatedane 06-Feb-04 14:09
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 176 David L 06-Feb-04 18:37
Who speaks the truth... 198 wirelessguru1 07-Feb-04 01:37
Re: Who speaks the truth... 191 David L 07-Feb-04 06:12
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 195 banah 07-Feb-04 13:05
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 207 David L 07-Feb-04 15:49
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 186 Anne-Marie 06-Feb-04 07:22
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 168 wirelessguru1 07-Feb-04 02:28
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 185 Anne-Marie 07-Feb-04 08:19
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 163 banah 07-Feb-04 13:13
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 186 David L 07-Feb-04 16:17
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 180 Cesar 07-Feb-04 17:22
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 223 David L 07-Feb-04 17:48
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 185 Anne-Marie 07-Feb-04 19:59
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 190 David L 07-Feb-04 22:01
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 201 wirelessguru1 08-Feb-04 19:23
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 184 Anne-Marie 08-Feb-04 20:18
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 533 wirelessguru1 08-Feb-04 21:08
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 171 Cesar 08-Feb-04 18:31
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 168 David L 08-Feb-04 19:15
Re: Questions about Truth 189 Caduceus 27-Jan-04 01:32
Re: Questions about Truth 192 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 22:49
Re: Questions about Truth 179 Caduceus 29-Jan-04 04:12
Re: Questions about Truth 190 xiang 27-Jan-04 03:16
Re: Questions about Truth 175 Caduceus 27-Jan-04 10:53
Re: Questions about Truth 203 wirelessguru1 27-Jan-04 17:49
Re: Questions about Truth 169 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 22:13
Re: Questions about Truth 185 wirelessguru1 27-Jan-04 22:28
Re: Questions about Truth 171 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 23:16
Re: Questions about Truth 206 wirelessguru1 28-Jan-04 00:04
Re: Questions about Truth 192 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 21:32
Re: Questions about Truth 179 xiang 28-Jan-04 01:50
Re: Questions about Truth 189 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 21:55
Re: Questions about Truth 183 wirelessguru1 27-Jan-04 07:57
Re: Questions about Truth 174 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 23:24
Re: Questions about Truth 166 wirelessguru1 28-Jan-04 00:24
Re: Questions about Truth 170 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 22:22
Re: Questions about Truth 155 wirelessguru1 29-Jan-04 01:03
Re: Questions about Truth 159 adequatedane 29-Jan-04 23:35
Re: Questions about Truth 172 wirelessguru1 29-Jan-04 23:56
Re: Questions about Truth 193 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 02:19
Re: Questions about Truth 176 wirelessguru1 30-Jan-04 03:15
Re: Questions about Truth 163 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 21:32
Re: Questions about Truth 183 wirelessguru1 31-Jan-04 01:04
Re: Questions about Truth 193 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 09:23
Re: Questions about Truth 172 wirelessguru1 31-Jan-04 19:33
Re: Questions about Truth 189 Zurg 30-Jan-04 13:19
Re: Questions about Truth 171 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 22:07
Re: Questions about Truth 180 Dominick Ohrbeck 30-Jan-04 21:39
Re: Questions about Truth 172 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 10:47
Re: Questions about Truth 173 Cesar 08-Feb-04 11:51


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