Eusebius 300-40ad. Listed a group called Ebonites ('the poor' see Essenes) who had the doctrine of the 'Primal Adam', in Hebrew language 'Adam' and the word 'Man' are interchangeable, and so Adam can be the 1st Adam or Man.
To the Ebionites, Christ is Adam, the first created, a 'Spirit' higher than angels, lord of all. He comes here when he (it?) chooses, as when he (it?) came in Adam, he (it?) came also in the last days, put on Jesus body, appeared to men, was crucified, resurrected and ascended. also they say, the Spirit which is Christ came unto him and put on the man, who is called Jesus. So the 'first Adam' comes in and out of being, manifesting in bodies through out time.
Hippoltus ad 200s Rome. Listed a group called the Elchasaites for who,
'The Christ is superior to the rest, is transfused into many bodies and was now in Jesus, Like wise this Jesus afterwards was continually transfused into bodies and was manifested into many in different times. This Secret Adam
St Paul letters 1 Corinthians. He talks of Jesus as the 2nd man? (man = adam) So Jesus could be 2nd Adam the primal Adam. Paul knew the old doctrines well. So is the real Jesus the 'Christ'? A power that lives in bodies, in yours, in mine? The source of life itself?
Then in Islam, Adam and Jesus are the only men who didn't have fathers and Adam didn't even have a mother.
So for me experiencing the spiritual essence, which is not born of woman, the Elan Vital, Ground of Being, the essence of every body, is the goal, but sadly unrecognised by most people, only those who have experienced the Gnosis, of vision/experience can really grasp this concept. So should we even be bothered about parenthood of the great teachers? For me it is about experiencing Gnosis and making that the solid foundation (the rock) and not the world of change (sand). I was taught to achieve this through meditation, (not a 5min quick fix as advertised on the web) focusing in silence for 1 hour a day minimum, slowly washing off the hard edges of my stone mind. I think we discussed this in the vicar in the cave documentary thread.
There are other hints IMO, Joshua 1chp8, “This book of law shall not depart from thy mouth, but thou shalt meditate there in day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written there in: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous and then thou shalt have good success”
the First Epistle of John chp1 “That which was from the beginning, which we have heard which we have seen with our eyes which we have looked upon and our hands have handled of the word of life.
Gospel of Thomas, “If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you”
I was taught without books, just to meditate and live from/in that experience. I asked about books, one mahatma said, 'why do you want to keep reading the menu, eat the food!'
I see the greatness of Jesus as his gift of Peace, which brings with it all the good stuff compassion, patience and Love. But I don't lock out John the baptist or James the Just. I see a chain of influence right through to Islam and back in time too as EOH33 has posted, the bathing, the food laws, Mohamed's vision in a cave, etc.. I would Love to see all peoples not fighting over who has best religion but appreciating all the great teachers and then perhaps we could stop the religious hatred, but it maybe a forlorn hope. malc
“If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear
to man as it is: infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro' narrow
chinks of his cavern.” William Blake
PS birth charts? I used to do them, we may talk sometime?