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Hi again Matt.

Thanks for pointing the way.

A little background: It was several years, likely decades back, when I first became aware of the Nag Hammadi texts. My initial reaction then was to not look deeply, because I presumed the information was so arcane and obscure that I wouldn't be able to make sense out of them. Adding to my desire for distancing, was the fact that I could sense that these texts were becoming commercialized fodder for a new profit-driven spiritual cottage industry.

Recently, upon finally taking a closer look at the Gospel of Thomas, I recognized what I perceived to be 'occult' truths that I have experienced directly and believe that only few others have. I got the same vibe reading the gospels of Mary and Philip.

On that note, let me back up just a little. Did you see the video that Malcolm posted in the OP. As I said, I am sympathetic to the two ladies who made the vid, but as historians, one of the things I did not like was their caricature of Constantine, whom the ladies seemed to be saying made Christianity the state religion in order to further his military agenda.

You likely know these things much better than I do, but my understanding is that Constantine first turned in this direction because of the dream he had prior to the battle where he was advised to paint Chi Rho on his soldier's swords. Only then, after the promised victory, did he begin the process of Christening the Roman Empire. If the this interpretation is correct, then his decision to do so was prompted by a mystical experience which follows the Hermetic principle, as it must, in my opinion, if it was "A"uthentic: as above, so below.

So, unless this is all wrong, and unless I have misunderstood 'the ladies', I would say their caricature of Constantine's core motives are misleading and certainly not in line with the highest academic standards.

So, in order to make Christianity the state religion, Constantine decided, wisely I presume, to solicit the churches and find out what they all agreed on, so everybody was on the same proverbial Page. Those in attendance all seemed to agree that the four gospels were sufficient to that end.

Since this was left in the hands of the church leaders, I personally think that Constantine made the right decision.

So what of these other NH gospels? I wondered about what 'heretic' means. My gut feeling is that the followers, if you will, of Thomas, Mary and Philip were of the fringe variety. I suspect they were of a much more mystical bend than most Christians, and were likely relegated to the sidelines at Nicea since few could relate to the content of their texts. A further mitigating factor seems obvious, given what was approved: the priests and followers of the approved texts were surely very familiar with the gospels we know, and of various letters from Peter, James, Acts-Luke and so on.

I don't buy the idea that Jesus was married, or that he had kids, because if he had then surely much attention would have been given to the Wife of God (as we see with Mary, the Mother of God), of any Grandchild of God the Father. Therein lies a cosmic reason why Jesus might have not had children, in my opinion: his Legacy was his own (and we would surely have f-ed things up if he had children, through various battles over succession).

As you probably know, I am a believer in Fate. That being the case, I have little doubt that the NH texts were revealed to us 'for a reason'. Perhaps this Disclosure, if it was that, has something to do with the Western world finally recognizing, after all; these centuries, that women are men's equals. Maybe the entire lot would have gotten burned immediately, had they fallen into the wrong hands - a far greater likelihood in previous centuries.

So, thanks again for sharing your thoughts, Matt. I really don't have the time to be diving into this much, but I was so appreciative of your responses here that I wanted to make some time to give you a fuller reply.

As things stand now, based on what little I do know, I am of the opinion that the systematic degradation of women began to occur well after 325, around the time when it became a crime to even possess these 'heretical' texts. By then the priesthood would have become deeply entrenched with mundane politics, and the priestesses among the clergy would have been in a disadvantaged position among those with political ambition.

Not to say that the chauvinism wasn't there from the start. This was one of the passages from Mary that I found most credible, when I looked into these texts again upon taking a closer look at Thomas. Upon reading it I was reminded of that part in one of the gospels where the apostles bickered over who was the greatest among them.

Chapter 9
1) When Mary had said this, she fell silent, since it was to this point that the Savior had spoken with her.

2) But Andrew answered and said to the brethren, Say what you wish to say about what she has said. I at least do not believe that the Savior said this. For certainly these teachings are strange ideas.

3) Peter answered and spoke concerning these same things.

4) He questioned them about the Savior: Did He really speak privately with a woman and not openly to us? Are we to turn about and all listen to her? Did He prefer her to us?

5) Then Mary wept and said to Peter, My brother Peter, what do you think? Do you think that I have thought this up myself in my heart, or that I am lying about the Savior?

6) Levi answered and said to Peter, Peter you have always been hot tempered.

7) Now I see you contending against the woman like the adversaries.

8) But if the Savior made her worthy, who are you indeed to reject her? Surely the Savior knows her very well.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Jesus' Female Disciples. 1862 grangram 28-Apr-19 07:27
Re: Jesus' Female Disciples. 289 Susan Doris 28-Apr-19 10:43
Re: Jesus' Female Disciples. 254 grangram 28-Apr-19 15:27
The Women Behind Every Great Man. 246 Itatw70s 29-Apr-19 22:58
Re: The Women Behind Every Great Man. 218 Susan Doris 30-Apr-19 09:40
Re: Jesus' Female Disciples. 265 PB Bytes 28-Apr-19 14:44
Re: Jesus' Female Disciples. 246 PB Bytes 29-Apr-19 00:12
Further thoughts 239 PB Bytes 29-Apr-19 14:09
Re: Further thoughts Female Saints 231 Eddie Larry 29-Apr-19 14:18
Re: Further thoughts Female Saints 243 PB Bytes 29-Apr-19 14:29
Re: Further thoughts Female Saints 227 Eddie Larry 29-Apr-19 15:54
This, on Mary Magdalene 233 PB Bytes 29-Apr-19 15:53
The Mauling of the Magdalene 246 eyeofhorus33 01-May-19 18:34
Re: The Mauling of the Magdalene 224 PB Bytes 02-May-19 18:40
Re: The Mauling of the Magdalene EDITED 250 eyeofhorus33 02-May-19 20:26
Re: The Mauling of the Magdalene EDITED 235 drrayeye 03-May-19 17:14
Amending the Apostles Creed... 228 PB Bytes 05-May-19 05:31
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 226 Eddie Larry 05-May-19 14:57
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 214 PB Bytes 05-May-19 15:17
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 213 Eddie Larry 05-May-19 17:53
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 207 PB Bytes 05-May-19 18:02
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 239 Eddie Larry 05-May-19 18:14
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 217 PB Bytes 05-May-19 18:26
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 211 Eddie Larry 05-May-19 19:10
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 232 PB Bytes 05-May-19 21:54
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 209 Eddie Larry 05-May-19 22:13
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 221 Itatw70s 05-May-19 22:50
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 231 PB Bytes 05-May-19 23:29
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 222 Itatw70s 05-May-19 23:56
Virgin birth? 248 eyeofhorus33 06-May-19 19:07
Regarding the MYTH of the 'Virgin birth myth' 221 PB Bytes 07-May-19 02:18
Re: Regarding the MYTH of the 'Virgin birth myth' 221 Susan Doris 07-May-19 05:25
Re: Regarding the MYTH of the 'Virgin birth myth' 229 PB Bytes 08-May-19 14:24
Re: Regarding the MYTH of the 'Virgin birth myth' 219 Susan Doris 08-May-19 15:21
Re: Regarding the MYTH of the 'Virgin birth myth' 209 PB Bytes 10-May-19 00:24
Re: Regarding the MYTH of the 'Virgin birth myth' 213 Susan Doris 10-May-19 05:18
Re: Regarding the MYTH of the 'Virgin birth myth' 213 PB Bytes 10-May-19 14:32
Re: Regarding the MYTH of the 'Virgin birth myth' 232 drrayeye 07-May-19 07:03
Re: Regarding the MYTH of the 'Virgin birth myth' 234 eyeofhorus33 07-May-19 19:39
Re: Regarding the MYTH of the 'Virgin birth myth' 222 drrayeye 07-May-19 21:27
Re: Regarding the MYTH of the 'Virgin birth myth' 223 eyeofhorus33 08-May-19 16:21
The formation of dogma in the Christian church 227 drrayeye 08-May-19 18:22
Micah: The formation of dogma in the Christian church 230 PB Bytes 09-May-19 17:17
Re: Micah: The formation of dogma in the Christian church 232 drrayeye 09-May-19 17:48
Re: Micah: The formation of dogma in the Christian church 214 PB Bytes 09-May-19 18:07
The Luminous Vision? 218 grangram 10-May-19 05:27
Re: The Luminous Vision? 221 PB Bytes 13-May-19 20:46
Re: The Luminous Vision? 248 PB Bytes 13-May-19 21:45
Re: The Luminous Vision? 217 grangram 22-May-19 06:11
IVF is not divinely created biblical 'virgin birth' 252 eyeofhorus33 07-May-19 19:48
Re: IVF is not divinely created biblical 'virgin birth' 237 PB Bytes 07-May-19 20:14
Re: IVF is not divinely created biblical 'virgin birth' 245 eyeofhorus33 07-May-19 21:10
Re: IVF is not divinely created biblical 'virgin birth' 223 PB Bytes 07-May-19 21:42
The birth of Christianity. Based upon mythology and neccessity in the Roman Empire. 224 Itatw70s 07-May-19 22:27
Re: The birth of Christianity. Based upon mythology and neccessity in the Roman Empire. 219 PB Bytes 07-May-19 22:54
Re: The birth of Christianity. Based upon mythology and neccessity in the Roman Empire. 235 Itatw70s 07-May-19 23:47
Re: The birth of Christianity. Based upon mythology and neccessity in the Roman Empire. 222 PB Bytes 08-May-19 00:30
Re: The birth of Christianity. Based upon mythology and neccessity in the Roman Empire. 209 Itatw70s 08-May-19 11:52
Re: The birth of Christianity. Based upon mythology and neccessity in the Roman Empire. 214 PB Bytes 08-May-19 14:27
Re: The birth of Christianity. Based upon mythology and neccessity in the Roman Empire. 216 Itatw70s 08-May-19 15:16
Re: The birth of Christianity. Based upon mythology and neccessity in the Roman Empire. 214 Eddie Larry 08-May-19 17:12
Re: The birth of Christianity. Based upon mythology and neccessity in the Roman Empire. 216 Itatw70s 08-May-19 18:51
Re: The birth of Christianity. Based upon mythology and neccessity in the Roman Empire. 228 Susan Doris 08-May-19 15:26
Re: The birth of Christianity. Based upon mythology and neccessity in the Roman Empire. 216 Itatw70s 08-May-19 18:53
The spirit is not born of woman. But it is the life force in both men and women? 246 grangram 08-May-19 08:47
Re: The spirit is not born of woman. But it is the life force in both men and women? 222 Susan Doris 08-May-19 11:43
Re: The spirit is not born of woman. But it is the life force in both men and women? 224 PB Bytes 08-May-19 14:21
Re: The spirit is not born of woman. But it is the life force in both men and women? 222 Susan Doris 08-May-19 15:33
No 214 drrayeye 08-May-19 18:37
Re: No 219 Itatw70s 08-May-19 22:20
Re: No 207 Susan Doris 09-May-19 05:41
Re: No 220 Itatw70s 09-May-19 11:33
Re: No 215 Susan Doris 09-May-19 05:32
Re: No 237 drrayeye 09-May-19 06:30
Re: No 221 Susan Doris 09-May-19 12:35
Re: No 206 Eddie Larry 09-May-19 14:17
Re: No 205 Susan Doris 09-May-19 15:30
Re: No 209 Eddie Larry 09-May-19 20:43
Re: Nowhere near the final exegesis of the mind. 223 Itatw70s 09-May-19 23:06
Going around in circles 220 drrayeye 09-May-19 16:00
Re: Going around in circles 212 Itatw70s 09-May-19 16:24
Re: The spirit is not born of woman. But it is the life force in both men and women? 225 PB Bytes 10-May-19 00:15
Re: The spirit is not born of woman. But it is the life force in both men and women? 228 PB Bytes 08-May-19 14:29
As above, so below.... 304 PB Bytes 08-May-19 20:56
thanks 206 grangram 09-May-19 08:14
Re: thanks 211 PB Bytes 09-May-19 14:02
yeah 213 grangram 09-May-19 15:49
Catholic-universal? 212 PB Bytes 13-May-19 20:07
Re: IVF is not divinely created biblical 'virgin birth' 225 PB Bytes 07-May-19 22:47
Re: IVF is not divinely created biblical 'virgin birth' 214 Susan Doris 08-May-19 07:32
Re: IVF is not divinely created biblical 'virgin birth' 206 Susan Doris 08-May-19 05:39
Re: IVF is not divinely created biblical 'virgin birth' 221 eyeofhorus33 08-May-19 22:04
Problem is 212 drrayeye 09-May-19 07:55
"Bible worthless as history" 220 eyeofhorus33 09-May-19 10:50
Re: "Bible worthless as history" 207 drrayeye 09-May-19 13:18
Re: "Bible worthless as history" 217 Susan Doris 09-May-19 14:09
Re: "Bible worthless as history" 196 Eddie Larry 09-May-19 14:23
Re: "Bible worthless as history" 198 Susan Doris 09-May-19 16:05
Re: "Bible worthless as history" 206 Eddie Larry 09-May-19 20:53
a little strong 213 drrayeye 09-May-19 17:00
Jesus' Female Disciples. 200 grangram 10-May-19 05:14
Here we go again... 211 PB Bytes 09-May-19 16:31
Re: Here we go again... 211 Susan Doris 09-May-19 17:12
First, 217 drrayeye 09-May-19 18:26
Re: First, 210 Susan Doris 10-May-19 05:39
Academic thinking 217 drrayeye 09-May-19 18:14
Re: Academic thinking 205 PB Bytes 09-May-19 19:12
Tolstoy thinking 213 PB Bytes 12-May-19 13:12
David Rohl Lectures 221 grangram 15-May-19 12:52
Rohl's Revised Chronology 226 eyeofhorus33 18-May-19 17:42
Re: Rohl's Revised Chronology 204 grangram 19-May-19 04:43
Re: Rohl's Revised Chronology 210 eyeofhorus33 19-May-19 14:36
Re: Rohl's Revised Chronology 213 grangram 21-May-19 07:26
Thank you 230 eyeofhorus33 21-May-19 21:02
Re: Thank you 214 PB Bytes 22-May-19 02:02
Indeed 218 eyeofhorus33 22-May-19 17:19
Psuedo intellectual dishonesty 204 PB Bytes 22-May-19 18:21
Re: Psuedo intellectual dishonesty 211 eyeofhorus33 22-May-19 18:53
Re: Psuedo intellectual dishonesty 200 PB Bytes 22-May-19 19:12
Speechless (with an edited to add comment) 237 eyeofhorus33 22-May-19 19:19
Re: Speechless (with an edited to add comment--ooh, I'm sooo scared) 212 PB Bytes 22-May-19 20:10
Re: Speechless (with an edited to add comment--ooh, I'm sooo scared) 243 eyeofhorus33 22-May-19 20:33
Thornborough, Giza & Orion Shining Above-Below 219 grangram 23-May-19 10:02
Re: Thornborough, Giza & Orion Shining Above-Below 204 PB Bytes 23-May-19 14:27
Jason Colavito 203 drrayeye 23-May-19 17:59
Re: Jason Calovito 197 PB Bytes 23-May-19 18:09
Re: Jason Colavito 199 drrayeye 23-May-19 23:58
Can't even spell his name correctly (n/t) 224 eyeofhorus33 24-May-19 14:00
corrected 195 drrayeye 24-May-19 15:37
Re: Jason Colavito part One 202 PB Bytes 24-May-19 15:37
Re: Jason Colavito part One 203 drrayeye 24-May-19 16:18
Re: Jason Colavito part Four - on Hancock re Rogan and Magicians of the Gods 223 PB Bytes 24-May-19 22:46
It's Jason's debunkatron POV 208 drrayeye 25-May-19 18:53
Re: It's Jason's debunkatron POV 199 PB Bytes 25-May-19 19:26
Re: It's Jason's debunkatron POV 205 PB Bytes 26-May-19 00:57
Re: It's Jason's debunkatron POV 196 Susan Doris 26-May-19 07:47
Re: It's Jason's debunkatron POV 196 PB Bytes 26-May-19 15:49
Re: It's Jason's debunkatron POV 203 drrayeye 26-May-19 10:56
One's path... 196 PB Bytes 26-May-19 16:52
Re: It's Jason's debunkatron POV 217 Susan Doris 26-May-19 07:33
As long as we suppose 332 drrayeye 26-May-19 21:47
Re: Jason Colavito part Two - on Shermer re Rogan and Magicians of the Gods 196 PB Bytes 24-May-19 16:43
You had me at hello 190 drrayeye 24-May-19 16:57
Re: Jason Colavito part Three - on Shermer re Rogan and Magicians of the Gods 195 PB Bytes 24-May-19 17:41
Links 217 eyeofhorus33 23-May-19 17:01
Egyptian Genesis 213 grangram 22-May-19 06:49
Bayesian carbon 14 dating video--comments 204 drrayeye 22-May-19 21:54
Patterns of evidence 211 drrayeye 20-May-19 13:48
Not yet Ray 236 eyeofhorus33 20-May-19 19:52
Re: Here we go again... 231 eyeofhorus33 09-May-19 21:19
Re: Here we go again... 233 PB Bytes 09-May-19 22:48
Re: Here we go again... 220 Susan Doris 10-May-19 05:50
Re: Here we go again... 204 PB Bytes 10-May-19 16:56
You are mistaken.. 220 eyeofhorus33 10-May-19 08:46
Re: You are mistaken.. 222 PB Bytes 10-May-19 14:14
Re: You are mistaken.. 220 eyeofhorus33 10-May-19 16:50
Re: You are mistaken.. 212 PB Bytes 10-May-19 16:53
Know thyself, 233 eyeofhorus33 10-May-19 22:15
Affirming the Greater Reality 227 PB Bytes 10-May-19 23:03
Wrong again! 232 eyeofhorus33 11-May-19 05:37
Mea Culpa for Matt 217 PB Bytes 11-May-19 18:57
Re: Virgin birth? 207 Eddie Larry 08-May-19 17:27
Cosmic Consciousness 235 Itatw70s 06-May-19 23:05
Re: Cosmic Consciousness 197 PB Bytes 07-May-19 02:38
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 215 Eddie Larry 06-May-19 00:36
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 202 PB Bytes 05-May-19 22:50
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 204 Eddie Larry 05-May-19 22:53
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 224 PB Bytes 05-May-19 23:20
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 216 Eddie Larry 06-May-19 00:02
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 215 PB Bytes 06-May-19 00:19
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 203 Eddie Larry 06-May-19 00:31
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 207 PB Bytes 06-May-19 00:45
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 225 Eddie Larry 06-May-19 00:58
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 224 PB Bytes 06-May-19 01:03
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 228 Eddie Larry 06-May-19 02:38
Passive-aggressive noise. 211 PB Bytes 06-May-19 03:05
Re: Passive-aggressive noise. 214 Eddie Larry 06-May-19 04:02
Re: Passive-aggressive noise. 208 PB Bytes 06-May-19 04:33
Re: Passive-aggressive noise. 210 Eddie Larry 06-May-19 05:18
Re: Passive-aggressive noise. 208 Itatw70s 06-May-19 11:30
Re: Passive-aggressive noise. 206 Eddie Larry 06-May-19 13:28
The Age of Pisces.... 234 Itatw70s 07-May-19 11:52
Re: The Mauling of the Magdalene 229 drrayeye 03-May-19 17:27
Re: Jesus' Female Disciples. 212 Eddie Larry 29-Apr-19 16:42
Re: Jesus' Female Disciples. 228 PB Bytes 29-Apr-19 17:02
Taking Action: Jesus' Female Disciples. 230 PB Bytes 29-Apr-19 17:09
Fantastic! 214 drrayeye 29-Apr-19 17:15
Re: Fantastic! 213 PB Bytes 29-Apr-19 17:24
Re: Fantastic! 221 grangram 29-Apr-19 19:22
Re: Fantastic! 215 PB Bytes 30-Apr-19 03:51
Helen Bond and Joan Taylor (2018) St Pauls cathedral 220 grangram 30-Apr-19 06:38
Re: Helen Bond and Joan Taylor (2018) St Pauls cathedral 230 PB Bytes 30-Apr-19 15:15
Re: Helen Bond and Joan Taylor (2018) St Pauls cathedral 206 grangram 01-May-19 16:06
Re: Taking Action: Jesus' Female Disciples. 218 Susan Doris 30-Apr-19 09:51
Re: Taking Action: Jesus' Female Disciples. 220 PB Bytes 30-Apr-19 15:39
Re: Taking Action: Jesus' Female Disciples. 244 eyeofhorus33 02-May-19 08:22
Re: Taking Action: Jesus' Female Disciples. 217 PB Bytes 02-May-19 19:25
Re: Jesus' Female Disciples. 216 Eddie Larry 29-Apr-19 17:18
Re: Jesus' Female Disciples. 216 PB Bytes 29-Apr-19 17:22
Re: Jesus' Female Disciples. 223 grangram 29-Apr-19 19:26
Re: Jesus' Female Disciples. 215 Itatw70s 30-Apr-19 11:46
Re: Jesus' Female Disciples. 231 Susan Doris 30-Apr-19 13:35
The Mother Goddess.... 232 Itatw70s 30-Apr-19 13:51
Re: Jesus' Female Disciples. 260 grangram 30-Apr-19 17:10
Re: Jesus' Female Disciples. 272 Itatw70s 30-Apr-19 17:49
Re: Jesus' Female Disciples. 294 Enigcom 01-May-19 16:14
Re: Jesus' Female Disciples. 290 Itatw70s 01-May-19 23:22


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