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Hi again Matt.

Thanks for pointing the way.

A little background: It was several years, likely decades back, when I first became aware of the Nag Hammadi texts. My initial reaction then was to not look deeply, because I presumed the information was so arcane and obscure that I wouldn't be able to make sense out of them. Adding to my desire for distancing, was the fact that I could sense that these texts were becoming commercialized fodder for a new profit-driven spiritual cottage industry.

Recently, upon finally taking a closer look at the Gospel of Thomas, I recognized what I perceived to be 'occult' truths that I have experienced directly and believe that only few others have. I got the same vibe reading the gospels of Mary and Philip.

On that note, let me back up just a little. Did you see the video that Malcolm posted in the OP. As I said, I am sympathetic to the two ladies who made the vid, but as historians, one of the things I did not like was their caricature of Constantine, whom the ladies seemed to be saying made Christianity the state religion in order to further his military agenda.

You likely know these things much better than I do, but my understanding is that Constantine first turned in this direction because of the dream he had prior to the battle where he was advised to paint Chi Rho on his soldier's swords. Only then, after the promised victory, did he begin the process of Christening the Roman Empire. If the this interpretation is correct, then his decision to do so was prompted by a mystical experience which follows the Hermetic principle, as it must, in my opinion, if it was "A"uthentic: as above, so below.

So, unless this is all wrong, and unless I have misunderstood 'the ladies', I would say their caricature of Constantine's core motives are misleading and certainly not in line with the highest academic standards.

So, in order to make Christianity the state religion, Constantine decided, wisely I presume, to solicit the churches and find out what they all agreed on, so everybody was on the same proverbial Page. Those in attendance all seemed to agree that the four gospels were sufficient to that end.

Since this was left in the hands of the church leaders, I personally think that Constantine made the right decision.

So what of these other NH gospels? I wondered about what 'heretic' means. My gut feeling is that the followers, if you will, of Thomas, Mary and Philip were of the fringe variety. I suspect they were of a much more mystical bend than most Christians, and were likely relegated to the sidelines at Nicea since few could relate to the content of their texts. A further mitigating factor seems obvious, given what was approved: the priests and followers of the approved texts were surely very familiar with the gospels we know, and of various letters from Peter, James, Acts-Luke and so on.

I don't buy the idea that Jesus was married, or that he had kids, because if he had then surely much attention would have been given to the Wife of God (as we see with Mary, the Mother of God), of any Grandchild of God the Father. Therein lies a cosmic reason why Jesus might have not had children, in my opinion: his Legacy was his own (and we would surely have f-ed things up if he had children, through various battles over succession).

As you probably know, I am a believer in Fate. That being the case, I have little doubt that the NH texts were revealed to us 'for a reason'. Perhaps this Disclosure, if it was that, has something to do with the Western world finally recognizing, after all; these centuries, that women are men's equals. Maybe the entire lot would have gotten burned immediately, had they fallen into the wrong hands - a far greater likelihood in previous centuries.

So, thanks again for sharing your thoughts, Matt. I really don't have the time to be diving into this much, but I was so appreciative of your responses here that I wanted to make some time to give you a fuller reply.

As things stand now, based on what little I do know, I am of the opinion that the systematic degradation of women began to occur well after 325, around the time when it became a crime to even possess these 'heretical' texts. By then the priesthood would have become deeply entrenched with mundane politics, and the priestesses among the clergy would have been in a disadvantaged position among those with political ambition.

Not to say that the chauvinism wasn't there from the start. This was one of the passages from Mary that I found most credible, when I looked into these texts again upon taking a closer look at Thomas. Upon reading it I was reminded of that part in one of the gospels where the apostles bickered over who was the greatest among them.

Chapter 9
1) When Mary had said this, she fell silent, since it was to this point that the Savior had spoken with her.

2) But Andrew answered and said to the brethren, Say what you wish to say about what she has said. I at least do not believe that the Savior said this. For certainly these teachings are strange ideas.

3) Peter answered and spoke concerning these same things.

4) He questioned them about the Savior: Did He really speak privately with a woman and not openly to us? Are we to turn about and all listen to her? Did He prefer her to us?

5) Then Mary wept and said to Peter, My brother Peter, what do you think? Do you think that I have thought this up myself in my heart, or that I am lying about the Savior?

6) Levi answered and said to Peter, Peter you have always been hot tempered.

7) Now I see you contending against the woman like the adversaries.

8) But if the Savior made her worthy, who are you indeed to reject her? Surely the Savior knows her very well.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Jesus' Female Disciples. 1825 grangram 28-Apr-19 07:27
Re: Jesus' Female Disciples. 264 Susan Doris 28-Apr-19 10:43
Re: Jesus' Female Disciples. 231 grangram 28-Apr-19 15:27
The Women Behind Every Great Man. 222 Itatw70s 29-Apr-19 22:58
Re: The Women Behind Every Great Man. 193 Susan Doris 30-Apr-19 09:40
Re: Jesus' Female Disciples. 242 PB Bytes 28-Apr-19 14:44
Re: Jesus' Female Disciples. 222 PB Bytes 29-Apr-19 00:12
Further thoughts 207 PB Bytes 29-Apr-19 14:09
Re: Further thoughts Female Saints 205 Eddie Larry 29-Apr-19 14:18
Re: Further thoughts Female Saints 217 PB Bytes 29-Apr-19 14:29
Re: Further thoughts Female Saints 202 Eddie Larry 29-Apr-19 15:54
This, on Mary Magdalene 210 PB Bytes 29-Apr-19 15:53
The Mauling of the Magdalene 218 eyeofhorus33 01-May-19 18:34
Re: The Mauling of the Magdalene 198 PB Bytes 02-May-19 18:40
Re: The Mauling of the Magdalene EDITED 222 eyeofhorus33 02-May-19 20:26
Re: The Mauling of the Magdalene EDITED 212 drrayeye 03-May-19 17:14
Amending the Apostles Creed... 203 PB Bytes 05-May-19 05:31
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 200 Eddie Larry 05-May-19 14:57
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 190 PB Bytes 05-May-19 15:17
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 191 Eddie Larry 05-May-19 17:53
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 178 PB Bytes 05-May-19 18:02
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 209 Eddie Larry 05-May-19 18:14
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 192 PB Bytes 05-May-19 18:26
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 181 Eddie Larry 05-May-19 19:10
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 206 PB Bytes 05-May-19 21:54
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 176 Eddie Larry 05-May-19 22:13
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 197 Itatw70s 05-May-19 22:50
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 206 PB Bytes 05-May-19 23:29
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 198 Itatw70s 05-May-19 23:56
Virgin birth? 214 eyeofhorus33 06-May-19 19:07
Regarding the MYTH of the 'Virgin birth myth' 198 PB Bytes 07-May-19 02:18
Re: Regarding the MYTH of the 'Virgin birth myth' 196 Susan Doris 07-May-19 05:25
Re: Regarding the MYTH of the 'Virgin birth myth' 204 PB Bytes 08-May-19 14:24
Re: Regarding the MYTH of the 'Virgin birth myth' 191 Susan Doris 08-May-19 15:21
Re: Regarding the MYTH of the 'Virgin birth myth' 186 PB Bytes 10-May-19 00:24
Re: Regarding the MYTH of the 'Virgin birth myth' 183 Susan Doris 10-May-19 05:18
Re: Regarding the MYTH of the 'Virgin birth myth' 186 PB Bytes 10-May-19 14:32
Re: Regarding the MYTH of the 'Virgin birth myth' 199 drrayeye 07-May-19 07:03
Re: Regarding the MYTH of the 'Virgin birth myth' 203 eyeofhorus33 07-May-19 19:39
Re: Regarding the MYTH of the 'Virgin birth myth' 198 drrayeye 07-May-19 21:27
Re: Regarding the MYTH of the 'Virgin birth myth' 194 eyeofhorus33 08-May-19 16:21
The formation of dogma in the Christian church 200 drrayeye 08-May-19 18:22
Micah: The formation of dogma in the Christian church 206 PB Bytes 09-May-19 17:17
Re: Micah: The formation of dogma in the Christian church 205 drrayeye 09-May-19 17:48
Re: Micah: The formation of dogma in the Christian church 187 PB Bytes 09-May-19 18:07
The Luminous Vision? 194 grangram 10-May-19 05:27
Re: The Luminous Vision? 198 PB Bytes 13-May-19 20:46
Re: The Luminous Vision? 222 PB Bytes 13-May-19 21:45
Re: The Luminous Vision? 190 grangram 22-May-19 06:11
IVF is not divinely created biblical 'virgin birth' 217 eyeofhorus33 07-May-19 19:48
Re: IVF is not divinely created biblical 'virgin birth' 213 PB Bytes 07-May-19 20:14
Re: IVF is not divinely created biblical 'virgin birth' 220 eyeofhorus33 07-May-19 21:10
Re: IVF is not divinely created biblical 'virgin birth' 196 PB Bytes 07-May-19 21:42
The birth of Christianity. Based upon mythology and neccessity in the Roman Empire. 194 Itatw70s 07-May-19 22:27
Re: The birth of Christianity. Based upon mythology and neccessity in the Roman Empire. 196 PB Bytes 07-May-19 22:54
Re: The birth of Christianity. Based upon mythology and neccessity in the Roman Empire. 212 Itatw70s 07-May-19 23:47
Re: The birth of Christianity. Based upon mythology and neccessity in the Roman Empire. 199 PB Bytes 08-May-19 00:30
Re: The birth of Christianity. Based upon mythology and neccessity in the Roman Empire. 183 Itatw70s 08-May-19 11:52
Re: The birth of Christianity. Based upon mythology and neccessity in the Roman Empire. 188 PB Bytes 08-May-19 14:27
Re: The birth of Christianity. Based upon mythology and neccessity in the Roman Empire. 187 Itatw70s 08-May-19 15:16
Re: The birth of Christianity. Based upon mythology and neccessity in the Roman Empire. 188 Eddie Larry 08-May-19 17:12
Re: The birth of Christianity. Based upon mythology and neccessity in the Roman Empire. 189 Itatw70s 08-May-19 18:51
Re: The birth of Christianity. Based upon mythology and neccessity in the Roman Empire. 202 Susan Doris 08-May-19 15:26
Re: The birth of Christianity. Based upon mythology and neccessity in the Roman Empire. 188 Itatw70s 08-May-19 18:53
The spirit is not born of woman. But it is the life force in both men and women? 223 grangram 08-May-19 08:47
Re: The spirit is not born of woman. But it is the life force in both men and women? 194 Susan Doris 08-May-19 11:43
Re: The spirit is not born of woman. But it is the life force in both men and women? 198 PB Bytes 08-May-19 14:21
Re: The spirit is not born of woman. But it is the life force in both men and women? 197 Susan Doris 08-May-19 15:33
No 188 drrayeye 08-May-19 18:37
Re: No 194 Itatw70s 08-May-19 22:20
Re: No 182 Susan Doris 09-May-19 05:41
Re: No 193 Itatw70s 09-May-19 11:33
Re: No 190 Susan Doris 09-May-19 05:32
Re: No 204 drrayeye 09-May-19 06:30
Re: No 197 Susan Doris 09-May-19 12:35
Re: No 183 Eddie Larry 09-May-19 14:17
Re: No 183 Susan Doris 09-May-19 15:30
Re: No 184 Eddie Larry 09-May-19 20:43
Re: Nowhere near the final exegesis of the mind. 201 Itatw70s 09-May-19 23:06
Going around in circles 192 drrayeye 09-May-19 16:00
Re: Going around in circles 184 Itatw70s 09-May-19 16:24
Re: The spirit is not born of woman. But it is the life force in both men and women? 192 PB Bytes 10-May-19 00:15
Re: The spirit is not born of woman. But it is the life force in both men and women? 204 PB Bytes 08-May-19 14:29
As above, so below.... 277 PB Bytes 08-May-19 20:56
thanks 182 grangram 09-May-19 08:14
Re: thanks 188 PB Bytes 09-May-19 14:02
yeah 188 grangram 09-May-19 15:49
Catholic-universal? 181 PB Bytes 13-May-19 20:07
Re: IVF is not divinely created biblical 'virgin birth' 200 PB Bytes 07-May-19 22:47
Re: IVF is not divinely created biblical 'virgin birth' 188 Susan Doris 08-May-19 07:32
Re: IVF is not divinely created biblical 'virgin birth' 181 Susan Doris 08-May-19 05:39
Re: IVF is not divinely created biblical 'virgin birth' 193 eyeofhorus33 08-May-19 22:04
Problem is 184 drrayeye 09-May-19 07:55
"Bible worthless as history" 194 eyeofhorus33 09-May-19 10:50
Re: "Bible worthless as history" 184 drrayeye 09-May-19 13:18
Re: "Bible worthless as history" 191 Susan Doris 09-May-19 14:09
Re: "Bible worthless as history" 175 Eddie Larry 09-May-19 14:23
Re: "Bible worthless as history" 175 Susan Doris 09-May-19 16:05
Re: "Bible worthless as history" 178 Eddie Larry 09-May-19 20:53
a little strong 190 drrayeye 09-May-19 17:00
Jesus' Female Disciples. 177 grangram 10-May-19 05:14
Here we go again... 187 PB Bytes 09-May-19 16:31
Re: Here we go again... 184 Susan Doris 09-May-19 17:12
First, 184 drrayeye 09-May-19 18:26
Re: First, 183 Susan Doris 10-May-19 05:39
Academic thinking 194 drrayeye 09-May-19 18:14
Re: Academic thinking 181 PB Bytes 09-May-19 19:12
Tolstoy thinking 188 PB Bytes 12-May-19 13:12
David Rohl Lectures 197 grangram 15-May-19 12:52
Rohl's Revised Chronology 197 eyeofhorus33 18-May-19 17:42
Re: Rohl's Revised Chronology 178 grangram 19-May-19 04:43
Re: Rohl's Revised Chronology 183 eyeofhorus33 19-May-19 14:36
Re: Rohl's Revised Chronology 189 grangram 21-May-19 07:26
Thank you 205 eyeofhorus33 21-May-19 21:02
Re: Thank you 180 PB Bytes 22-May-19 02:02
Indeed 192 eyeofhorus33 22-May-19 17:19
Psuedo intellectual dishonesty 181 PB Bytes 22-May-19 18:21
Re: Psuedo intellectual dishonesty 184 eyeofhorus33 22-May-19 18:53
Re: Psuedo intellectual dishonesty 169 PB Bytes 22-May-19 19:12
Speechless (with an edited to add comment) 208 eyeofhorus33 22-May-19 19:19
Re: Speechless (with an edited to add comment--ooh, I'm sooo scared) 188 PB Bytes 22-May-19 20:10
Re: Speechless (with an edited to add comment--ooh, I'm sooo scared) 203 eyeofhorus33 22-May-19 20:33
Thornborough, Giza & Orion Shining Above-Below 196 grangram 23-May-19 10:02
Re: Thornborough, Giza & Orion Shining Above-Below 179 PB Bytes 23-May-19 14:27
Jason Colavito 178 drrayeye 23-May-19 17:59
Re: Jason Calovito 169 PB Bytes 23-May-19 18:09
Re: Jason Colavito 175 drrayeye 23-May-19 23:58
Can't even spell his name correctly (n/t) 195 eyeofhorus33 24-May-19 14:00
corrected 170 drrayeye 24-May-19 15:37
Re: Jason Colavito part One 174 PB Bytes 24-May-19 15:37
Re: Jason Colavito part One 173 drrayeye 24-May-19 16:18
Re: Jason Colavito part Four - on Hancock re Rogan and Magicians of the Gods 195 PB Bytes 24-May-19 22:46
It's Jason's debunkatron POV 184 drrayeye 25-May-19 18:53
Re: It's Jason's debunkatron POV 173 PB Bytes 25-May-19 19:26
Re: It's Jason's debunkatron POV 175 PB Bytes 26-May-19 00:57
Re: It's Jason's debunkatron POV 172 Susan Doris 26-May-19 07:47
Re: It's Jason's debunkatron POV 169 PB Bytes 26-May-19 15:49
Re: It's Jason's debunkatron POV 177 drrayeye 26-May-19 10:56
One's path... 171 PB Bytes 26-May-19 16:52
Re: It's Jason's debunkatron POV 192 Susan Doris 26-May-19 07:33
As long as we suppose 302 drrayeye 26-May-19 21:47
Re: Jason Colavito part Two - on Shermer re Rogan and Magicians of the Gods 171 PB Bytes 24-May-19 16:43
You had me at hello 165 drrayeye 24-May-19 16:57
Re: Jason Colavito part Three - on Shermer re Rogan and Magicians of the Gods 174 PB Bytes 24-May-19 17:41
Links 189 eyeofhorus33 23-May-19 17:01
Egyptian Genesis 187 grangram 22-May-19 06:49
Bayesian carbon 14 dating video--comments 175 drrayeye 22-May-19 21:54
Patterns of evidence 185 drrayeye 20-May-19 13:48
Not yet Ray 209 eyeofhorus33 20-May-19 19:52
Re: Here we go again... 204 eyeofhorus33 09-May-19 21:19
Re: Here we go again... 208 PB Bytes 09-May-19 22:48
Re: Here we go again... 194 Susan Doris 10-May-19 05:50
Re: Here we go again... 178 PB Bytes 10-May-19 16:56
You are mistaken.. 192 eyeofhorus33 10-May-19 08:46
Re: You are mistaken.. 199 PB Bytes 10-May-19 14:14
Re: You are mistaken.. 186 eyeofhorus33 10-May-19 16:50
Re: You are mistaken.. 184 PB Bytes 10-May-19 16:53
Know thyself, 205 eyeofhorus33 10-May-19 22:15
Affirming the Greater Reality 197 PB Bytes 10-May-19 23:03
Wrong again! 205 eyeofhorus33 11-May-19 05:37
Mea Culpa for Matt 192 PB Bytes 11-May-19 18:57
Re: Virgin birth? 181 Eddie Larry 08-May-19 17:27
Cosmic Consciousness 205 Itatw70s 06-May-19 23:05
Re: Cosmic Consciousness 174 PB Bytes 07-May-19 02:38
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 191 Eddie Larry 06-May-19 00:36
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 176 PB Bytes 05-May-19 22:50
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 179 Eddie Larry 05-May-19 22:53
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 198 PB Bytes 05-May-19 23:20
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 185 Eddie Larry 06-May-19 00:02
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 186 PB Bytes 06-May-19 00:19
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 179 Eddie Larry 06-May-19 00:31
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 182 PB Bytes 06-May-19 00:45
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 195 Eddie Larry 06-May-19 00:58
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 197 PB Bytes 06-May-19 01:03
Re: Amending the Apostles Creed... 204 Eddie Larry 06-May-19 02:38
Passive-aggressive noise. 184 PB Bytes 06-May-19 03:05
Re: Passive-aggressive noise. 187 Eddie Larry 06-May-19 04:02
Re: Passive-aggressive noise. 184 PB Bytes 06-May-19 04:33
Re: Passive-aggressive noise. 185 Eddie Larry 06-May-19 05:18
Re: Passive-aggressive noise. 182 Itatw70s 06-May-19 11:30
Re: Passive-aggressive noise. 181 Eddie Larry 06-May-19 13:28
The Age of Pisces.... 209 Itatw70s 07-May-19 11:52
Re: The Mauling of the Magdalene 202 drrayeye 03-May-19 17:27
Re: Jesus' Female Disciples. 186 Eddie Larry 29-Apr-19 16:42
Re: Jesus' Female Disciples. 202 PB Bytes 29-Apr-19 17:02
Taking Action: Jesus' Female Disciples. 202 PB Bytes 29-Apr-19 17:09
Fantastic! 191 drrayeye 29-Apr-19 17:15
Re: Fantastic! 188 PB Bytes 29-Apr-19 17:24
Re: Fantastic! 195 grangram 29-Apr-19 19:22
Re: Fantastic! 187 PB Bytes 30-Apr-19 03:51
Helen Bond and Joan Taylor (2018) St Pauls cathedral 195 grangram 30-Apr-19 06:38
Re: Helen Bond and Joan Taylor (2018) St Pauls cathedral 190 PB Bytes 30-Apr-19 15:15
Re: Helen Bond and Joan Taylor (2018) St Pauls cathedral 182 grangram 01-May-19 16:06
Re: Taking Action: Jesus' Female Disciples. 194 Susan Doris 30-Apr-19 09:51
Re: Taking Action: Jesus' Female Disciples. 194 PB Bytes 30-Apr-19 15:39
Re: Taking Action: Jesus' Female Disciples. 209 eyeofhorus33 02-May-19 08:22
Re: Taking Action: Jesus' Female Disciples. 192 PB Bytes 02-May-19 19:25
Re: Jesus' Female Disciples. 191 Eddie Larry 29-Apr-19 17:18
Re: Jesus' Female Disciples. 192 PB Bytes 29-Apr-19 17:22
Re: Jesus' Female Disciples. 189 grangram 29-Apr-19 19:26
Re: Jesus' Female Disciples. 191 Itatw70s 30-Apr-19 11:46
Re: Jesus' Female Disciples. 200 Susan Doris 30-Apr-19 13:35
The Mother Goddess.... 206 Itatw70s 30-Apr-19 13:51
Re: Jesus' Female Disciples. 233 grangram 30-Apr-19 17:10
Re: Jesus' Female Disciples. 251 Itatw70s 30-Apr-19 17:49
Re: Jesus' Female Disciples. 270 Enigcom 01-May-19 16:14
Re: Jesus' Female Disciples. 269 Itatw70s 01-May-19 23:22


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