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Based on what I have learned these last few days, my current take on GoT, which of course can be subject to change, as always, but especially since all of things we have been discussing are quite new to me.

At best, I would say that GoT is a collection of writings that Thomas may have written, in whole or in part. I am convinced that the author knew of a mystical experience - the recognition of heaven's ubiquity and what ramifications that has on one's sense of self identification. But if Thomas was the writer, I can only see these as notes for journal recording and NOT what must be his main message.

In my thinking I start with the doubting Thomas episode. Set in 33ad, according to traditional teachings Thomas would live another 20 years before moving to India where, from 53ad until 72-73. His time spent there is well documented by locals, and he is said to have built seven churches there before being martyred. What I found especially striking during my time in the Madras area, was how similar the stories associated with Thomas were to what I know of his contemporaries: a seemingly extraordinary fixation on the traditional gospel, as evidence in no small part by an ornate cross he carved into stone in a place where he preached, and on the hill where he was speared in the back, while praying in front of another cross that he had also allegedly carved.

So, what about the first 20 years of Thomas's post-Easter career? Are we to assume that he preached a gnostic mystical message to his followers, and then travelled down to India, dropped all of that and suddenly became what we would regard as a traditional convert? Hardly likely. The much more likely alternative is that Thomas did what he continued to do for the final 20 years of his life, telling a message in a foreign land like Paul, at tremendous ongoing personal risk.

That said, my own life experience compels me to believe that the author of Thomas was privvy to a very real, very transcendent experience which is alluded to in Verse 3. So, for now, I am thinking that this, at best was something Thomas wanted to record for posterity's sake and maybe share with some, but it could not be his main message. It would not surprise me one bit if Jesus pulled Thomas aside and initiated this experience, in much the same way that he chose two other apostles for a private viewing Transfiguration - precedent. By implication, such stories are not for everyone. The traditional gospel is.

If Thomas experienced what I did, I can certainly see why he would want to recall or write about the episode for posterity's sake. But if that's true, I think it is just as likely that some people wanted to use this document for their own political purposes, and now that I'm more informed I'm leaning to the motive being an attempt to impose a Gnostic mystical overlay over the emerging Christian message.

And if that's true, then it may be likely that the other gnostic text were subject to the same tweaking, if not complete fabrications.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03-Apr-19 15:47 by Poster Boy.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 1919 PB Bytes 29-Mar-19 17:07
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 335 Eddie Larry 29-Mar-19 17:53
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 315 PB Bytes 29-Mar-19 22:12
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 303 Eddie Larry 29-Mar-19 22:54
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 336 PB Bytes 30-Mar-19 05:23
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 309 drrayeye 30-Mar-19 17:01
Making progress 319 drrayeye 30-Mar-19 18:20
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 300 Gnostic Bishop 31-Mar-19 20:51
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 222 PB Bytes 01-Apr-19 16:30
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 216 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 17:14
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 217 PB Bytes 01-Apr-19 17:47
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 224 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 18:00
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 217 PB Bytes 01-Apr-19 18:28
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 213 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 18:58
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 210 PB Bytes 01-Apr-19 19:05
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 201 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 19:15
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 219 PB Bytes 01-Apr-19 20:44
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 206 Gnostic Bishop 02-Apr-19 15:17
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 203 PB Bytes 02-Apr-19 15:43
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 207 Gnostic Bishop 02-Apr-19 15:57
Manichaeism 225 Eddie Larry 02-Apr-19 17:49
Re: Manichaeism 219 Gnostic Bishop 02-Apr-19 18:10
Re: Manichaeism 217 Eddie Larry 02-Apr-19 20:16
Re: Manichaeism 200 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 14:45
Re: Manichaeism 206 Eddie Larry 03-Apr-19 16:05
Re: Manichaeism 208 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 16:58
Re: Manichaeism 208 Eddie Larry 03-Apr-19 17:22
Re: Manichaeism 211 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 17:31
Re: Manichaeism 198 Eddie Larry 03-Apr-19 18:26
Re: Manichaeism 201 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 20:19
Re: Manichaeism 201 Eddie Larry 03-Apr-19 20:36
Re: Manichaeism 202 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 20:42
Re: Manichaeism 226 Eddie Larry 03-Apr-19 22:25
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 207 Gnostic Bishop 02-Apr-19 15:25
Before we go any further 219 PB Bytes 02-Apr-19 15:45
Re: Before we go any further 210 Gnostic Bishop 02-Apr-19 16:05
Re: Before we go any further 218 PB Bytes 02-Apr-19 17:02
Re: Before we go any further 210 Gnostic Bishop 02-Apr-19 18:04
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 217 Gnostic Bishop 02-Apr-19 15:28
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 219 PB Bytes 02-Apr-19 15:46
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 213 Gnostic Bishop 02-Apr-19 16:17
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 213 Gnostic Bishop 02-Apr-19 15:38
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 209 PB Bytes 02-Apr-19 15:47
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 218 Gnostic Bishop 02-Apr-19 16:19
Thanks 206 drrayeye 01-Apr-19 18:54
Re: Thanks 210 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 19:04
Some alternatives 209 drrayeye 01-Apr-19 21:05
Re: Some alternatives 200 Gnostic Bishop 02-Apr-19 15:46
Re: Some alternatives 215 drrayeye 02-Apr-19 20:49
Re: Some alternatives 207 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 14:51
Re: Thanks 230 PB Bytes 01-Apr-19 19:14
Re: Thanks 214 drrayeye 01-Apr-19 19:55
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 211 PB Bytes 01-Apr-19 15:31
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 207 Eddie Larry 01-Apr-19 15:46
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 205 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 16:52
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 217 Eddie Larry 01-Apr-19 17:04
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 218 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 17:49
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 203 Eddie Larry 01-Apr-19 17:54
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 205 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 18:38
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 199 Eddie Larry 01-Apr-19 18:53
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 194 PB Bytes 02-Apr-19 02:49
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 212 Eddie Larry 02-Apr-19 04:07
Thomas in India 223 PB Bytes 02-Apr-19 04:31
Re: Thomas in India 211 eyeofhorus33 03-Apr-19 18:11
Re: Thomas in India 206 PB Bytes 03-Apr-19 18:13
Re: Thomas in India 207 eyeofhorus33 03-Apr-19 18:20
Re: Thomas in India 219 PB Bytes 03-Apr-19 18:32
Re: Thomas in India 207 eyeofhorus33 03-Apr-19 18:40
Re: Thomas in India 204 PB Bytes 03-Apr-19 19:06
Re: Thomas in India 212 eyeofhorus33 03-Apr-19 20:42
Re: Thomas in India 209 PB Bytes 03-Apr-19 21:23
Re: Thomas in India 212 eyeofhorus33 04-Apr-19 06:35
Re: Thomas in India 205 PB Bytes 04-Apr-19 15:41
Inspiration 204 drrayeye 04-Apr-19 18:13
Re: Inspiration 242 PB Bytes 04-Apr-19 21:30
Re: Inspiration 208 Gnostic Bishop 06-Apr-19 11:53
Re: Inspiration 215 Eddie Larry 06-Apr-19 17:03
Re: Inspiration 201 PB Bytes 06-Apr-19 17:20
Re: Inspiration 198 Gnostic Bishop 06-Apr-19 18:23
Re: Inspiration 208 Gnostic Bishop 06-Apr-19 18:21
Re: Inspiration 246 Eddie Larry 06-Apr-19 18:29
James the Just 229 grangram 05-Apr-19 08:25
I agree completely 207 drrayeye 05-Apr-19 16:50
Re: I agree completely 208 grangram 05-Apr-19 17:56
Re: I agree completely 212 drrayeye 05-Apr-19 23:00
Re: James the Just 210 PB Bytes 05-Apr-19 23:27
Socrates? of course. 217 grangram 06-Apr-19 06:50
Re: Inspiration 202 Gnostic Bishop 06-Apr-19 00:47
Re: Inspiration 216 drrayeye 06-Apr-19 03:07
Re: Inspiration 204 Gnostic Bishop 06-Apr-19 12:27
Re: Thomas in India 210 eyeofhorus33 04-Apr-19 20:18
Re: Thomas in India 225 Eddie Larry 04-Apr-19 21:24
Re: Thomas in India 229 PB Bytes 04-Apr-19 21:39
Re: Thomas in India 206 Eddie Larry 05-Apr-19 01:39
Re: Thomas in India 234 eyeofhorus33 04-Apr-19 21:42
Re: Thomas in India 208 drrayeye 05-Apr-19 00:40
Re: Thomas in India 203 Eddie Larry 05-Apr-19 00:49
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 303 drrayeye 30-Mar-19 03:47
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 279 PB Bytes 30-Mar-19 05:28
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 292 drrayeye 30-Mar-19 06:14
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 290 PB Bytes 30-Mar-19 14:20
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 286 Eddie Larry 30-Mar-19 17:56
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 281 PB Bytes 31-Mar-19 23:20
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 224 Eddie Larry 01-Apr-19 15:28
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 212 PB Bytes 01-Apr-19 15:41
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 207 Eddie Larry 01-Apr-19 15:50
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 201 PB Bytes 01-Apr-19 16:18
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 208 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 17:02
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 203 Eddie Larry 01-Apr-19 17:27
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 207 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 17:53
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 193 Eddie Larry 01-Apr-19 17:57
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 200 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 16:55
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 201 Eddie Larry 01-Apr-19 17:01
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 190 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 17:25
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 202 Eddie Larry 01-Apr-19 17:32
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 200 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 18:32
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 198 Eddie Larry 01-Apr-19 18:58
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 205 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 19:11
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 207 Eddie Larry 01-Apr-19 19:35
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 192 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 19:41
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 192 Eddie Larry 01-Apr-19 19:45
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 203 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 19:51
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 201 Eddie Larry 01-Apr-19 20:11
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 195 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 20:31
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 209 PB Bytes 01-Apr-19 17:01
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 205 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 17:44
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 299 Susan Doris 30-Mar-19 06:16
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 260 PB Bytes 30-Mar-19 14:13
Youtube is very helpful 276 drrayeye 30-Mar-19 18:52
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 267 Gnostic Bishop 31-Mar-19 20:46
Some interesting comments 277 drrayeye 30-Mar-19 20:39
Re: Some interesting comments 306 Eddie Larry 30-Mar-19 22:45
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 405 Gnostic Bishop 31-Mar-19 20:29
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 244 PB Bytes 31-Mar-19 23:17
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 206 Itatw70s 01-Apr-19 11:58
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 201 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 13:11
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 212 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 13:19
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 209 PB Bytes 01-Apr-19 15:11
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 209 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 15:53
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 216 Itatw70s 01-Apr-19 15:13
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 199 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 16:13
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 223 PB Bytes 01-Apr-19 15:53
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 208 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 16:21
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 211 PB Bytes 01-Apr-19 16:51
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 204 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 17:18
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 218 PB Bytes 01-Apr-19 17:50
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 206 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 18:27
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 193 drrayeye 01-Apr-19 19:11
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 196 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 19:20
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 203 drrayeye 01-Apr-19 19:47
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 203 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 20:25
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 219 drrayeye 01-Apr-19 21:48
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 211 Itatw70s 01-Apr-19 23:31
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 246 Gnostic Bishop 02-Apr-19 16:09
Our differences are our similarities.... 220 Itatw70s 02-Apr-19 18:17
Re: Our differences are our similarities.... 202 Gnostic Bishop 02-Apr-19 19:44
Re: Our differences are our similarities.... 208 Itatw70s 02-Apr-19 23:39
Re: Our differences are our similarities.... 196 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 15:02
Re: Our differences are our similarities.... 199 Itatw70s 03-Apr-19 16:34
Re: Our differences are our similarities.... 201 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 17:03
Re: Our differences are our similarities.... 200 Itatw70s 04-Apr-19 18:21
Re: Our differences are our similarities.... 199 Gnostic Bishop 06-Apr-19 00:53
IMO 226 drrayeye 02-Apr-19 23:12
About that short trip I had mentioned... 224 PB Bytes 03-Apr-19 04:04
Re: IMO 204 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 14:56
Re: IMO - My take after these few days 206 PB Bytes 03-Apr-19 15:45
Re: IMO - My take after these few days 207 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 16:51
Re: IMO - My take after these few days 206 PB Bytes 03-Apr-19 17:04
Re: IMO - My take after these few days 203 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 17:29
Re: IMO - My take after these few days 211 PB Bytes 03-Apr-19 17:39
Re: IMO - My take after these few days 210 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 19:57
Re: IMO - My take after these few days 201 Itatw70s 04-Apr-19 19:40
Re: IMO - My take after these few days 201 Gnostic Bishop 06-Apr-19 01:01
Spirituality 213 drrayeye 03-Apr-19 17:57
Re: Spirituality 207 PB Bytes 03-Apr-19 18:07
Re: Spirituality 205 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 20:13
Regarding Bishop Spong: 204 PB Bytes 03-Apr-19 20:28
Re: Regarding Bishop Spong: 204 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 20:36
Re: Spirituality 203 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 20:07
If you need help 197 drrayeye 04-Apr-19 03:52
Re: If you need help 203 Gnostic Bishop 04-Apr-19 14:04
Re: IMO 189 drrayeye 03-Apr-19 17:35
Re: IMO 197 Eddie Larry 03-Apr-19 18:31
Re: IMO 190 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 20:23
Re: IMO 201 Eddie Larry 03-Apr-19 20:28
Re: IMO 201 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 20:39
Re: IMO 194 Eddie Larry 03-Apr-19 21:13
Re: IMO 203 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 21:44
Re: IMO 198 Eddie Larry 03-Apr-19 22:21
Re: IMO 183 Gnostic Bishop 04-Apr-19 13:58
Re: IMO 199 Eddie Larry 04-Apr-19 17:38
Re: IMO 200 Gnostic Bishop 05-Apr-19 20:28
You've posted this already 201 drrayeye 05-Apr-19 22:57
Re: You've posted this already 204 Gnostic Bishop 06-Apr-19 12:24
God--in song 208 drrayeye 06-Apr-19 20:39
Richard Dawkins 208 drrayeye 04-Apr-19 04:31
Rupert is great! 206 grangram 05-Apr-19 11:49
Rediscovering God 243 drrayeye 05-Apr-19 16:44
Oh Please 201 drrayeye 04-Apr-19 04:14
Re: Oh Please 196 Gnostic Bishop 04-Apr-19 14:10
TV Popularizers 203 drrayeye 04-Apr-19 17:18
Re: IMO 221 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 19:56
Re: IMO 216 drrayeye 04-Apr-19 04:01
Re: IMO 212 Gnostic Bishop 04-Apr-19 14:07
I think I get it 216 drrayeye 04-Apr-19 18:04
Ascetic Christianity documentary 240 grangram 05-Apr-19 09:20
Re: Ascetic Christianity documentary 210 PB Bytes 06-Apr-19 04:32
Re: Ascetic Christianity documentary 210 grangram 06-Apr-19 07:19
Thomas 78 "Why have you come out into the desert? 250 grangram 06-Apr-19 06:03
Re: Thomas 78 "Why have you come out into the desert? 223 PB Bytes 06-Apr-19 15:16
Re: Thomas 78 "Why have you come out into the desert? 212 Eddie Larry 06-Apr-19 16:38
Re: Thomas 78 "Why have you come out into the desert? 207 PB Bytes 06-Apr-19 16:49
Re: Thomas 78 "Why have you come out into the desert? 203 Eddie Larry 06-Apr-19 16:59
Some more thoughts on Jesus' influence through James' work 246 grangram 08-Apr-19 09:04
Re: Some more thoughts on Jesus' influence through James' work 262 PB Bytes 08-Apr-19 18:05
Re: Some more thoughts on Jesus' influence through James' work 235 grangram 08-Apr-19 19:28
Re: Some more thoughts on Jesus' influence through James' work 241 PB Bytes 08-Apr-19 20:34
Re: Thomas 78 "Why have you come out into the desert? 248 PB Bytes 06-Apr-19 16:17
Re: Thomas 78 "Why have you come out into the desert? 216 grangram 09-Apr-19 13:11
Re: Thomas 78 "Why have you come out into the desert? 220 PB Bytes 09-Apr-19 17:33
The auto biography of a Yogi? 260 grangram 10-Apr-19 08:39
Re: The auto biography of a Yogi? 223 PB Bytes 10-Apr-19 23:15
Re: Rennes le Chateau tour guide 374 Edmond 23-May-19 08:32


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