I commend you for doing such a remarkable job, in keeping your composure throughout while addressing another whose beliefs on Christianity are, perhaps, diametrically opposed to your own.
I had not wanted to post this text, from Wikipedia, because I am mainly interested in Thomas, the text's origins and all that, and because I didn't want to presume to know what you, DL, or believed in regarding "Gnosticism".
My only comment regarding to what I think you may believe now are two-fold: if your Gnosticism has anything to do with the traditional teachings of Jesus, is that you seem to have a very uphill climb convincing others that Jesus thought of the Father in any remotely "evil" terms. Secondly, if you ever experience what I believe Verse 3 speaks of, your "frustration" will is replaced by fulfilment and whatever generalizations you may presently hold about (the human pursuit of) knowledge will be superceded by information coming from a might higher authority.
But that's just me :)
Here's the text I wanted to comment on, from Wiki,
Some of the core teachings [of Gnosticism] include the following:
All matter is evil, and the non-material, spirit-realm is good.
This is wrong, and likely a borrowed idea from cultural biases of that time. There is a non-material spiritual realm, realms really, but their existence doesn't make this one - the Father's creation - evil.
There is an unknowable God, who gave rise to many lesser spirit beings called Aeons.
God is knowable; there are spiritual beings who are also of God's creation.
The creator of the (material) universe is not the supreme god, but an inferior spirit (the Demiurge).
My opinion is that it's more likely that this line, which I also believe to be false, is not a mortal invention but one propagated by spiritual intelligences that others would rightly define as "evil."
Gnosticism does not deal with "sin," only ignorance.
To each their own.
To achieve salvation, one needs gnosis (knowledge).
A friend recently told me, I believe, that this may have been the sticking point between Gnostic Christianity and the version that prevailed. If so, I agree with the call because salvation was central to Jesus' self-proclaimed life mission.
So, taking a big leap here back to 300AD, if the parties called to Nicea were aware of such a faction, I would agree that their teachings, if elucidated above(?), should be categorically disregarded as they were indeed anti-thetical to what the churches were trying to define.
At present, I see this idea as being fundamentally separate from the Thomas doc. There's the text, and there's how others may have interpreted it at the time. I'm not sure if Thomas is indicative of the Gnostic teachings, as described above. They may have borrowed it, for all I know, and made it their own.
Warm regards, and best wishes on your path.
Gnostic Bishop Wrote:
> Poster Boy Wrote:
> > "how can you idol worship one who has the same
> > qualities as Hitler? "
> > Because I frame the Father VERY differently
> > you.
> > At this point, I'm thinking that we're near the
> > end of our discussion.
> You are likely correct.
> Few Christians ever like to look at the immorality
> of their gods.
> That frustrated me in the past to the point of my
> writing a little thing on the faith you have to
> have to have your position.
> Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.
> Faith is a way to quit using, "God given" power of
> Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to
> embrace doctrines that moral people reject.
> The God of the OT says, “Come now, and let us
> reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]
> How can literalists reason on God when they must
> ignore reason and logic and discard them when
> turning into literalist?
> Those who are literalists can only reply somewhat
> in the fashion that Martin Luther did.
> “Faith must trample under foot all reason,
> sense, and understanding.”
> “Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that
> faith has.”
> This attitude effectively kills all worthy
> communication that non-theists can have with
> theist. Faith closes their mind as it is pure idol
> Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true
> messages of myths. We cannot show our faith based
> friends that they are wrong through their faith
> colored glasses. Their faith also plugs their
> It frustra