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Hi DL

I commend you for doing such a remarkable job, in keeping your composure throughout while addressing another whose beliefs on Christianity are, perhaps, diametrically opposed to your own.

I had not wanted to post this text, from Wikipedia, because I am mainly interested in Thomas, the text's origins and all that, and because I didn't want to presume to know what you, DL, or believed in regarding "Gnosticism".

My only comment regarding to what I think you may believe now are two-fold: if your Gnosticism has anything to do with the traditional teachings of Jesus, is that you seem to have a very uphill climb convincing others that Jesus thought of the Father in any remotely "evil" terms. Secondly, if you ever experience what I believe Verse 3 speaks of, your "frustration" will is replaced by fulfilment and whatever generalizations you may presently hold about (the human pursuit of) knowledge will be superceded by information coming from a might higher authority.

But that's just me :)

Here's the text I wanted to comment on, from Wiki,

Some of the core teachings [of Gnosticism] include the following:

All matter is evil, and the non-material, spirit-realm is good.

This is wrong, and likely a borrowed idea from cultural biases of that time. There is a non-material spiritual realm, realms really, but their existence doesn't make this one - the Father's creation - evil.


There is an unknowable God, who gave rise to many lesser spirit beings called Aeons.

God is knowable; there are spiritual beings who are also of God's creation.


The creator of the (material) universe is not the supreme god, but an inferior spirit (the Demiurge).


My opinion is that it's more likely that this line, which I also believe to be false, is not a mortal invention but one propagated by spiritual intelligences that others would rightly define as "evil."


Gnosticism does not deal with "sin," only ignorance.

To each their own.

To achieve salvation, one needs gnosis (knowledge).

A friend recently told me, I believe, that this may have been the sticking point between Gnostic Christianity and the version that prevailed. If so, I agree with the call because salvation was central to Jesus' self-proclaimed life mission.

So, taking a big leap here back to 300AD, if the parties called to Nicea were aware of such a faction, I would agree that their teachings, if elucidated above(?), should be categorically disregarded as they were indeed anti-thetical to what the churches were trying to define.

At present, I see this idea as being fundamentally separate from the Thomas doc. There's the text, and there's how others may have interpreted it at the time. I'm not sure if Thomas is indicative of the Gnostic teachings, as described above. They may have borrowed it, for all I know, and made it their own.

Warm regards, and best wishes on your path.

PB




Gnostic Bishop Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Poster Boy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "how can you idol worship one who has the same
> > qualities as Hitler? "
> >
> > Because I frame the Father VERY differently
> from
> > you.
> >
> > At this point, I'm thinking that we're near the
> > end of our discussion.
>
> You are likely correct.
>
> Few Christians ever like to look at the immorality
> of their gods.
>
> That frustrated me in the past to the point of my
> writing a little thing on the faith you have to
> have to have your position.
>
> Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.
>
>
> Faith is a way to quit using, "God given" power of
> Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to
> embrace doctrines that moral people reject.
>
> The God of the OT says, “Come now, and let us
> reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]
>
> How can literalists reason on God when they must
> ignore reason and logic and discard them when
> turning into literalist?
>
> Those who are literalists can only reply somewhat
> in the fashion that Martin Luther did.
> “Faith must trample under foot all reason,
> sense, and understanding.”
> “Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that
> faith has.”
>
> This attitude effectively kills all worthy
> communication that non-theists can have with
> theist. Faith closes their mind as it is pure idol
> worship.
>
> Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true
> messages of myths. We cannot show our faith based
> friends that they are wrong through their faith
> colored glasses. Their faith also plugs their
> ears.
>
> Regards
> DL
>
>
> It frustra

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 1918 PB Bytes 29-Mar-19 17:07
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 335 Eddie Larry 29-Mar-19 17:53
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 315 PB Bytes 29-Mar-19 22:12
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 301 Eddie Larry 29-Mar-19 22:54
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 336 PB Bytes 30-Mar-19 05:23
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 309 drrayeye 30-Mar-19 17:01
Making progress 319 drrayeye 30-Mar-19 18:20
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 300 Gnostic Bishop 31-Mar-19 20:51
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 222 PB Bytes 01-Apr-19 16:30
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 215 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 17:14
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 217 PB Bytes 01-Apr-19 17:47
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 224 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 18:00
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 216 PB Bytes 01-Apr-19 18:28
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 213 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 18:58
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 210 PB Bytes 01-Apr-19 19:05
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 201 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 19:15
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 218 PB Bytes 01-Apr-19 20:44
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 205 Gnostic Bishop 02-Apr-19 15:17
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 203 PB Bytes 02-Apr-19 15:43
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 207 Gnostic Bishop 02-Apr-19 15:57
Manichaeism 224 Eddie Larry 02-Apr-19 17:49
Re: Manichaeism 219 Gnostic Bishop 02-Apr-19 18:10
Re: Manichaeism 217 Eddie Larry 02-Apr-19 20:16
Re: Manichaeism 200 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 14:45
Re: Manichaeism 206 Eddie Larry 03-Apr-19 16:05
Re: Manichaeism 207 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 16:58
Re: Manichaeism 207 Eddie Larry 03-Apr-19 17:22
Re: Manichaeism 210 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 17:31
Re: Manichaeism 197 Eddie Larry 03-Apr-19 18:26
Re: Manichaeism 200 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 20:19
Re: Manichaeism 200 Eddie Larry 03-Apr-19 20:36
Re: Manichaeism 201 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 20:42
Re: Manichaeism 225 Eddie Larry 03-Apr-19 22:25
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 207 Gnostic Bishop 02-Apr-19 15:25
Before we go any further 218 PB Bytes 02-Apr-19 15:45
Re: Before we go any further 210 Gnostic Bishop 02-Apr-19 16:05
Re: Before we go any further 218 PB Bytes 02-Apr-19 17:02
Re: Before we go any further 209 Gnostic Bishop 02-Apr-19 18:04
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 217 Gnostic Bishop 02-Apr-19 15:28
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 218 PB Bytes 02-Apr-19 15:46
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 213 Gnostic Bishop 02-Apr-19 16:17
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 212 Gnostic Bishop 02-Apr-19 15:38
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 209 PB Bytes 02-Apr-19 15:47
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 218 Gnostic Bishop 02-Apr-19 16:19
Thanks 205 drrayeye 01-Apr-19 18:54
Re: Thanks 210 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 19:04
Some alternatives 208 drrayeye 01-Apr-19 21:05
Re: Some alternatives 199 Gnostic Bishop 02-Apr-19 15:46
Re: Some alternatives 215 drrayeye 02-Apr-19 20:49
Re: Some alternatives 207 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 14:51
Re: Thanks 230 PB Bytes 01-Apr-19 19:14
Re: Thanks 214 drrayeye 01-Apr-19 19:55
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 211 PB Bytes 01-Apr-19 15:31
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 207 Eddie Larry 01-Apr-19 15:46
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 204 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 16:52
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 217 Eddie Larry 01-Apr-19 17:04
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 218 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 17:49
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 203 Eddie Larry 01-Apr-19 17:54
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 204 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 18:38
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 198 Eddie Larry 01-Apr-19 18:53
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 194 PB Bytes 02-Apr-19 02:49
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 212 Eddie Larry 02-Apr-19 04:07
Thomas in India 223 PB Bytes 02-Apr-19 04:31
Re: Thomas in India 211 eyeofhorus33 03-Apr-19 18:11
Re: Thomas in India 205 PB Bytes 03-Apr-19 18:13
Re: Thomas in India 207 eyeofhorus33 03-Apr-19 18:20
Re: Thomas in India 218 PB Bytes 03-Apr-19 18:32
Re: Thomas in India 207 eyeofhorus33 03-Apr-19 18:40
Re: Thomas in India 204 PB Bytes 03-Apr-19 19:06
Re: Thomas in India 212 eyeofhorus33 03-Apr-19 20:42
Re: Thomas in India 209 PB Bytes 03-Apr-19 21:23
Re: Thomas in India 212 eyeofhorus33 04-Apr-19 06:35
Re: Thomas in India 205 PB Bytes 04-Apr-19 15:41
Inspiration 203 drrayeye 04-Apr-19 18:13
Re: Inspiration 241 PB Bytes 04-Apr-19 21:30
Re: Inspiration 207 Gnostic Bishop 06-Apr-19 11:53
Re: Inspiration 215 Eddie Larry 06-Apr-19 17:03
Re: Inspiration 201 PB Bytes 06-Apr-19 17:20
Re: Inspiration 198 Gnostic Bishop 06-Apr-19 18:23
Re: Inspiration 207 Gnostic Bishop 06-Apr-19 18:21
Re: Inspiration 246 Eddie Larry 06-Apr-19 18:29
James the Just 229 grangram 05-Apr-19 08:25
I agree completely 207 drrayeye 05-Apr-19 16:50
Re: I agree completely 208 grangram 05-Apr-19 17:56
Re: I agree completely 212 drrayeye 05-Apr-19 23:00
Re: James the Just 210 PB Bytes 05-Apr-19 23:27
Socrates? of course. 216 grangram 06-Apr-19 06:50
Re: Inspiration 201 Gnostic Bishop 06-Apr-19 00:47
Re: Inspiration 216 drrayeye 06-Apr-19 03:07
Re: Inspiration 203 Gnostic Bishop 06-Apr-19 12:27
Re: Thomas in India 210 eyeofhorus33 04-Apr-19 20:18
Re: Thomas in India 225 Eddie Larry 04-Apr-19 21:24
Re: Thomas in India 228 PB Bytes 04-Apr-19 21:39
Re: Thomas in India 206 Eddie Larry 05-Apr-19 01:39
Re: Thomas in India 234 eyeofhorus33 04-Apr-19 21:42
Re: Thomas in India 207 drrayeye 05-Apr-19 00:40
Re: Thomas in India 203 Eddie Larry 05-Apr-19 00:49
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 303 drrayeye 30-Mar-19 03:47
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 279 PB Bytes 30-Mar-19 05:28
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 292 drrayeye 30-Mar-19 06:14
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 290 PB Bytes 30-Mar-19 14:20
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 286 Eddie Larry 30-Mar-19 17:56
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 281 PB Bytes 31-Mar-19 23:20
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 223 Eddie Larry 01-Apr-19 15:28
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 212 PB Bytes 01-Apr-19 15:41
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 206 Eddie Larry 01-Apr-19 15:50
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 201 PB Bytes 01-Apr-19 16:18
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 208 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 17:02
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 202 Eddie Larry 01-Apr-19 17:27
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 207 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 17:53
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 192 Eddie Larry 01-Apr-19 17:57
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 199 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 16:55
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 200 Eddie Larry 01-Apr-19 17:01
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 190 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 17:25
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 202 Eddie Larry 01-Apr-19 17:32
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 199 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 18:32
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 198 Eddie Larry 01-Apr-19 18:58
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 205 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 19:11
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 206 Eddie Larry 01-Apr-19 19:35
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 191 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 19:41
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 191 Eddie Larry 01-Apr-19 19:45
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 202 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 19:51
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 200 Eddie Larry 01-Apr-19 20:11
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 195 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 20:31
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 208 PB Bytes 01-Apr-19 17:01
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 205 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 17:44
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 299 Susan Doris 30-Mar-19 06:16
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 259 PB Bytes 30-Mar-19 14:13
Youtube is very helpful 276 drrayeye 30-Mar-19 18:52
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 267 Gnostic Bishop 31-Mar-19 20:46
Some interesting comments 277 drrayeye 30-Mar-19 20:39
Re: Some interesting comments 306 Eddie Larry 30-Mar-19 22:45
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 404 Gnostic Bishop 31-Mar-19 20:29
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 244 PB Bytes 31-Mar-19 23:17
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 206 Itatw70s 01-Apr-19 11:58
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 200 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 13:11
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 211 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 13:19
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 208 PB Bytes 01-Apr-19 15:11
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 208 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 15:53
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 216 Itatw70s 01-Apr-19 15:13
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 199 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 16:13
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 223 PB Bytes 01-Apr-19 15:53
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 208 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 16:21
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 211 PB Bytes 01-Apr-19 16:51
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 203 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 17:18
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 218 PB Bytes 01-Apr-19 17:50
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 205 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 18:27
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 193 drrayeye 01-Apr-19 19:11
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 195 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 19:20
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 202 drrayeye 01-Apr-19 19:47
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 203 Gnostic Bishop 01-Apr-19 20:25
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 218 drrayeye 01-Apr-19 21:48
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 210 Itatw70s 01-Apr-19 23:31
Re: Exploring the Gospel of Thomas 246 Gnostic Bishop 02-Apr-19 16:09
Our differences are our similarities.... 220 Itatw70s 02-Apr-19 18:17
Re: Our differences are our similarities.... 202 Gnostic Bishop 02-Apr-19 19:44
Re: Our differences are our similarities.... 208 Itatw70s 02-Apr-19 23:39
Re: Our differences are our similarities.... 195 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 15:02
Re: Our differences are our similarities.... 199 Itatw70s 03-Apr-19 16:34
Re: Our differences are our similarities.... 201 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 17:03
Re: Our differences are our similarities.... 200 Itatw70s 04-Apr-19 18:21
Re: Our differences are our similarities.... 198 Gnostic Bishop 06-Apr-19 00:53
IMO 226 drrayeye 02-Apr-19 23:12
About that short trip I had mentioned... 223 PB Bytes 03-Apr-19 04:04
Re: IMO 204 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 14:56
Re: IMO - My take after these few days 206 PB Bytes 03-Apr-19 15:45
Re: IMO - My take after these few days 207 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 16:51
Re: IMO - My take after these few days 206 PB Bytes 03-Apr-19 17:04
Re: IMO - My take after these few days 202 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 17:29
Re: IMO - My take after these few days 211 PB Bytes 03-Apr-19 17:39
Re: IMO - My take after these few days 210 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 19:57
Re: IMO - My take after these few days 201 Itatw70s 04-Apr-19 19:40
Re: IMO - My take after these few days 201 Gnostic Bishop 06-Apr-19 01:01
Spirituality 213 drrayeye 03-Apr-19 17:57
Re: Spirituality 207 PB Bytes 03-Apr-19 18:07
Re: Spirituality 205 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 20:13
Regarding Bishop Spong: 203 PB Bytes 03-Apr-19 20:28
Re: Regarding Bishop Spong: 203 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 20:36
Re: Spirituality 203 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 20:07
If you need help 197 drrayeye 04-Apr-19 03:52
Re: If you need help 203 Gnostic Bishop 04-Apr-19 14:04
Re: IMO 188 drrayeye 03-Apr-19 17:35
Re: IMO 197 Eddie Larry 03-Apr-19 18:31
Re: IMO 189 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 20:23
Re: IMO 201 Eddie Larry 03-Apr-19 20:28
Re: IMO 200 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 20:39
Re: IMO 194 Eddie Larry 03-Apr-19 21:13
Re: IMO 202 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 21:44
Re: IMO 198 Eddie Larry 03-Apr-19 22:21
Re: IMO 182 Gnostic Bishop 04-Apr-19 13:58
Re: IMO 199 Eddie Larry 04-Apr-19 17:38
Re: IMO 200 Gnostic Bishop 05-Apr-19 20:28
You've posted this already 201 drrayeye 05-Apr-19 22:57
Re: You've posted this already 204 Gnostic Bishop 06-Apr-19 12:24
God--in song 207 drrayeye 06-Apr-19 20:39
Richard Dawkins 208 drrayeye 04-Apr-19 04:31
Rupert is great! 206 grangram 05-Apr-19 11:49
Rediscovering God 243 drrayeye 05-Apr-19 16:44
Oh Please 200 drrayeye 04-Apr-19 04:14
Re: Oh Please 196 Gnostic Bishop 04-Apr-19 14:10
TV Popularizers 203 drrayeye 04-Apr-19 17:18
Re: IMO 221 Gnostic Bishop 03-Apr-19 19:56
Re: IMO 216 drrayeye 04-Apr-19 04:01
Re: IMO 212 Gnostic Bishop 04-Apr-19 14:07
I think I get it 215 drrayeye 04-Apr-19 18:04
Ascetic Christianity documentary 240 grangram 05-Apr-19 09:20
Re: Ascetic Christianity documentary 210 PB Bytes 06-Apr-19 04:32
Re: Ascetic Christianity documentary 209 grangram 06-Apr-19 07:19
Thomas 78 "Why have you come out into the desert? 250 grangram 06-Apr-19 06:03
Re: Thomas 78 "Why have you come out into the desert? 222 PB Bytes 06-Apr-19 15:16
Re: Thomas 78 "Why have you come out into the desert? 211 Eddie Larry 06-Apr-19 16:38
Re: Thomas 78 "Why have you come out into the desert? 207 PB Bytes 06-Apr-19 16:49
Re: Thomas 78 "Why have you come out into the desert? 203 Eddie Larry 06-Apr-19 16:59
Some more thoughts on Jesus' influence through James' work 246 grangram 08-Apr-19 09:04
Re: Some more thoughts on Jesus' influence through James' work 262 PB Bytes 08-Apr-19 18:05
Re: Some more thoughts on Jesus' influence through James' work 235 grangram 08-Apr-19 19:28
Re: Some more thoughts on Jesus' influence through James' work 240 PB Bytes 08-Apr-19 20:34
Re: Thomas 78 "Why have you come out into the desert? 247 PB Bytes 06-Apr-19 16:17
Re: Thomas 78 "Why have you come out into the desert? 215 grangram 09-Apr-19 13:11
Re: Thomas 78 "Why have you come out into the desert? 219 PB Bytes 09-Apr-19 17:33
The auto biography of a Yogi? 259 grangram 10-Apr-19 08:39
Re: The auto biography of a Yogi? 223 PB Bytes 10-Apr-19 23:15
Re: Rennes le Chateau tour guide 373 Edmond 23-May-19 08:32


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