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You can go after the priests etc. as much as you like, with my blessing. However, ordinary people know there is something bigger than our brains. Too bad you hang on to your brain alone. It seems a bit out of touch.
Not all church leaders are bad either. I just read about a Danish minister who in the olden days, not sure when, thundered against certain customs which included horrendous animal cruelty.

GG.



Susan Doris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
Quote

Actually Susan, I think that what ancient
> people decided was that there were forces of
> Nature that did NOT do what people wanted. Like
> volcanoes, storms, earthquakes etc. We call them,
> even today, forces of nature. They can still
> destroy us and our plans.
> On what basis do you think they did not
> anthropomorphise these forces of nature?? Do you
> think they realised they were natural forces of
> nature? If that was the case, why do you think
> that people, as they became more stable and were
> surviving more successfully, made that natural
> system into a more and more complicated system of
> worshipping the gods/spirits that they imagined,
> and told people, were behind them?
> They worked to placate them, built places for
> these forces to be worshipped. If, right from that
> logical start, they knew they were exploiting the
> people with their apparent power to intercede with
> whatever gods they had invented, that makes
> religions and their leaders an unhelpful way of
> living – I was going to say, ‘a blight’ but
> that is too derogatory a term - on society for
> more like a million years rather than tens of
> thousands I think, don’t you?
> If ancient people went from understanding that
> natural events were just that – natural, it
> would have been a backward step, evolutionarily if
> nothing else, to thentreat them as
> gods/spirits/etc.
>
Quote

I suggest that what was superstitious was
> thinking people could do things which avert these
> natural processes.
> Well, yes, that is what superstition is, isn’t
> it?! :) To say that religious beliefs are not
> superstitions doesn’t hold water. If you believe
> they are different, can you explain why?
>
Quote

So I take it now that “alternative
> superstition “ simply means ancient
> superstitions or Susan’s interpretation of
> ancient superstitions.
> No, I’ll make it clear – ancient superstitions
> were understandable; alternative superstitions
> that followed and continue today, were and are
> religious beliefs, with supposed gods or spirits
> as their focus.
>
Quote

In terms of your last two sentences, I
> think that modern religions have already handled
> the issues of ancient or original superstitions
> quite well. God for modern religions is really
> tied to the concept of good or goodness.
> Especially, a lifestyle based on love of life and
> reciprocity towards one’s neighbors.
> That, as we have learnt from evolutionary studies,
> is a vital survival trait. As long as it continues
> to be passed on, the human race will continue to
> survive, in spite of the unevidenced ideas of
> many, whether they are meant in as kind and good a
> manner or not. Religious leaders are so deeply
> embedded and involved in the necessity for
> perpetuating these faith beliefs that I suppose
> enough of them work for the good of the people for
> them to be supported until such time as they
> become a minority view. I shake my head sadly that
> there are still such vast numbers who can
> inculcate, indoctrinate, teach as truth, etc daft
> beliefs like people flying on winged horses,
> angels with wings, resurrections of people who
> then rise – whyrise? We know enough about the
> Earth, galaxies and the universe to understand
> what is above us” – into some mythical
> heaven.
>
Quote

Now the notion that ‘god is beyond space
> and time’ was a later notion based on
>
Doesn’t matter what it was based on –
> it is a false idea which gets religious leaders
> out of the hole they are in.
> I will also say that as far as I’m concerned,
> the CofE, shaky as it is, provides the background
> stability needed by humans and should stay until
> something more able to form that background
> becomes available.
>
Quote

You know Susan, god does not have to be
> interpreted as a “supernatural
> existent”
> Of course, there is no obligation, ;ought or
> should to do that. Why do you think it should? For
> one thing, as I might have mentioned occasionally,
> there is zero evidence for any godd/spirit/etc
> existing other than as an idea in human brains.
>
Quote

and , if so, then you don’t have an
> argument at all. I can only suggest being careful
> with the argument of supernatural reality.
>
> You’ll have to explain that – I can’t see
> what you mean.
>
Quote

It works both ways. IMO, of course.
>
> What does?!! And How?
>
Quote

My definition is simple, god is the word
> people use to name the meaning they find in life.
> Not “supernatural “ at all.
> If that were true, then there would be a cessation
> of people killing others because of the others’
> beliefs. And, of course, the word God would lose
> its authority because the religious leaders
> claiming its existence would be shown to be
> spreading falsehoods.
>
Quote

Hope this helps!
> I don’t know about that, but it has made a very
> interesting start to my Saturday! Thank you.
>
> Susan

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Free will or not? 1292 greengirl5 04-Nov-18 21:54
Re: Free will or not? 287 Itatw70s 04-Nov-18 22:51
Re: Free will or not? 251 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 00:02
Re: Free will or not? 227 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 03:19
Re: Free will or not? 215 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 04:01
Re: Free will or not? 212 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 05:01
Re: Free will or not? 213 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 05:10
Re: Free will or not? 200 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 05:25
Re: Free will or not? 218 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 06:18
The chocolate made me do it 191 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 07:35
Re: The chocolate made me do it 202 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 08:00
Re: The chocolate made me do it 219 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 09:18
Re: The chocolate made me do it 231 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 10:00
Re: The chocolate made me do it 216 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 12:18
Re: The chocolate made me do it 187 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 12:57
Re: The chocolate made me do it, but did not make me think! 212 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:25
Re: The chocolate made me do it 227 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 15:05
Security and randomness 209 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 08:19
Re: Security and randomness 198 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 12:51
Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 199 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 11:40
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 197 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 12:22
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 199 Itatw70s 05-Nov-18 12:48
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 209 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:35
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 196 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 13:04
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 192 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 15:28
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 197 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 19:57
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 219 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 20:39
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 189 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 06:21
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 221 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 09:19
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 204 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 10:37
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 195 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 14:09
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 208 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 14:23
scientific vs. clinical perspective on consciousness 199 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 19:01
Various states of consciousness 192 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 21:32
Re: Various states of consciousness 200 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 00:37
Re: Various states of consciousness 207 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 01:11
Re: Various states of consciousness 197 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 06:11
Re: Various states of consciousness 213 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 07:28
Re: Various states of consciousness 204 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 08:28
you're totally lost here 202 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 08:55
Re: you're totally lost here 198 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 09:52
Re: you're totally lost here 200 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 12:02
Re: you're totally lost here 211 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 16:03
Keep the science out 233 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 18:25
Re: Various states of consciousness 211 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 08:58
Re: Various states of consciousness 214 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 10:14
Re: Various states of consciousness 203 Eddie Larry 07-Nov-18 19:04
Re: Various states of consciousness 200 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 21:18
Was Einstein a scientist? 200 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 21:55
Not a materialist 200 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 22:14
Re: Not a materialist 190 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 01:16
Butting in 197 drrayeye 08-Nov-18 06:24
Re: Not a materialist 208 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 02:30
Re: Not a materialist 194 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 05:58
Re: Not a materialist 178 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 07:19
Re: Various states of consciousness 210 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 01:13
Re: Various states of consciousness 191 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 01:08
Re: Various states of consciousness 195 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 02:17
Re: Various states of consciousness 205 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 06:07
Interpretations 203 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 07:23
Re: Various states of consciousness 227 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 07:32
Re: Various states of consciousness 228 Eddie Larry 08-Nov-18 18:26
Re: Various states of consciousness 195 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 06:16
Re: Various states of consciousness 193 Eddie Larry 09-Nov-18 23:57
May the force be with you! 217 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 01:57
Re: May the force be with you! 207 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 02:20
Re: May the force be with you! 203 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 04:10
Re: May the force be with you! 204 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 14:10
Re: May the force be with you! 196 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 20:26
Re: Various states of consciousness 219 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 08:15
Religious leaders and others 197 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 09:55
Re: Religious leaders and others 224 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 12:04
Pathological disbeliever 206 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 20:32
Re: Pathological disbeliever 208 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 06:01
Re: Various states of consciousness 198 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 14:27
Whose fault? 191 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 21:00
Re: Whose fault? 209 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 21:12
Re: Whose fault? 199 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 06:05
Re: Whose fault? 206 greengirl5 11-Nov-18 06:38
Re: Whose fault? 205 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 07:14
Susan's sociological theory of religions 194 drrayeye 10-Nov-18 19:10
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 216 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 20:14
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 186 drrayeye 11-Nov-18 02:16
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 194 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 06:14
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 197 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 12:46
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 188 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 03:54
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 205 Susan Doris 13-Nov-18 06:14
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 183 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 04:11
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 204 Susan Doris 13-Nov-18 06:29
Maybe a cheer leader for science 190 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 08:34
"T of E" vs. "t of e"? 189 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 08:41
N R F 190 greengirl5 13-Nov-18 09:28
Re: "T of E" vs. "t of e"? 202 Susan Doris 13-Nov-18 17:59
Re: "T of E" vs. "t of e"? 180 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 20:16
Re: "T of E" vs. "t of e"? 336 Susan Doris 14-Nov-18 02:16
Superstitious behavior 199 drrayeye 08-Nov-18 20:40
Re: Superstitious behavior 182 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 20:53
Re: Superstitious behavior 208 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 06:30
another day--another rant. 187 drrayeye 09-Nov-18 09:15
Re: another day--another rant. 204 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 11:11
Free will 185 drrayeye 10-Nov-18 08:20
Superstitions 159 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 20:48
Re: Various states of consciousness 175 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 20:49
Re: Various states of consciousness 180 Eddie Larry 08-Nov-18 04:08
You're not following 204 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 08:47
Re: Free will or not? 200 Jock 06-Nov-18 17:00
Re: Free will or not? 218 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 18:04
Re: Free will or not? 217 Jock 08-Nov-18 21:38
Re: Free will or not? 204 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 06:41
Re: Free will or not? 179 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 07:32
Re: Free will or not? 193 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 07:48
Completely off the wall 184 drrayeye 09-Nov-18 13:01
Re: Completely off the wall 214 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 13:56
Re: Completely off the wall 185 drrayeye 09-Nov-18 18:00
Re: Completely off the wall 192 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 18:31
Re: Completely off the wall 217 Jock 09-Nov-18 20:11
Contumelious 179 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 21:29
Re: Completely off the wall 181 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 08:25
Re: Completely off the wall 192 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 21:17
Re-education 199 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 21:08
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 264 M. J. Thomas 05-Nov-18 14:45
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 229 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 15:46
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 244 M. J. Thomas 06-Nov-18 10:43
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 192 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 14:13
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 221 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 14:28
So what is God to you? 194 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 21:47
Re: So what is God to you? 224 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 00:48
Re: So what is God to you? 189 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 01:21
Re: So what is God to you? 215 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 01:38
Re: So what is God to you? 193 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 02:07
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 221 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 20:04
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 203 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:51
Me too! 212 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:47
No-Name freedom.... 204 Itatw70s 06-Nov-18 01:12
The way 206 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 02:19
Re: Free will or not? 211 Itatw70s 06-Nov-18 12:25
Re: Free will or not? 216 Eddie Larry 06-Nov-18 14:34
Re: Free will or not? 206 Itatw70s 06-Nov-18 16:42
Way to go! 204 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 21:52
The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 206 Itatw70s 07-Nov-18 00:41
Re: The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 239 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 01:24
Re: The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 233 Itatw70s 07-Nov-18 12:40
Re: The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 221 Enigcom 07-Nov-18 16:15
Re: Free will or not? 225 Itatw70s 07-Nov-18 20:55
Re: Free will or not? 203 Enigcom 11-Nov-18 22:10
Re: Free will or not? 203 wilpsy3 10-Nov-18 21:39


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