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Actually Susan, I think that what ancient people decided was that there were forces of Nature that did NOT do what people wanted. Like volcanoes, storms, earthquakes etc. We call them, even today, forces of nature. They can still destroy us and our plans.
On what basis do you think they did not anthropomorphise these forces of nature?? Do you think they realised they were natural forces of nature? If that was the case, why do you think that people, as they became more stable and were surviving more successfully, made that natural system into a more and more complicated system of worshipping the gods/spirits that they imagined, and told people, were behind them?
They worked to placate them, built places for these forces to be worshipped. If, right from that logical start, they knew they were exploiting the people with their apparent power to intercede with whatever gods they had invented, that makes religions and their leaders an unhelpful way of living – I was going to say, ‘a blight’ but that is too derogatory a term - on society for more like a million years rather than tens of thousands I think, don’t you?
If ancient people went from understanding that natural events were just that – natural, it would have been a backward step, evolutionarily if nothing else, to thentreat them as gods/spirits/etc.
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I suggest that what was superstitious was thinking people could do things which avert these natural processes.
Well, yes, that is what superstition is, isn’t it?! :) To say that religious beliefs are not superstitions doesn’t hold water. If you believe they are different, can you explain why?
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So I take it now that “alternative superstition “ simply means ancient superstitions or Susan’s interpretation of ancient superstitions.
No, I’ll make it clear – ancient superstitions were understandable; alternative superstitions that followed and continue today, were and are religious beliefs, with supposed gods or spirits as their focus.
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In terms of your last two sentences, I think that modern religions have already handled the issues of ancient or original superstitions quite well. God for modern religions is really tied to the concept of good or goodness. Especially, a lifestyle based on love of life and reciprocity towards one’s neighbors.
That, as we have learnt from evolutionary studies, is a vital survival trait. As long as it continues to be passed on, the human race will continue to survive, in spite of the unevidenced ideas of many, whether they are meant in as kind and good a manner or not. Religious leaders are so deeply embedded and involved in the necessity for perpetuating these faith beliefs that I suppose enough of them work for the good of the people for them to be supported until such time as they become a minority view. I shake my head sadly that there are still such vast numbers who can inculcate, indoctrinate, teach as truth, etc daft beliefs like people flying on winged horses, angels with wings, resurrections of people who then rise – whyrise? We know enough about the Earth, galaxies and the universe to understand what is above us” – into some mythical heaven.
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Now the notion that ‘god is beyond space and time’ was a later notion based on
Doesn’t matter what it was based on – it is a false idea which gets religious leaders out of the hole they are in.
I will also say that as far as I’m concerned, the CofE, shaky as it is, provides the background stability needed by humans and should stay until something more able to form that background becomes available.
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You know Susan, god does not have to be interpreted as a “supernatural existent”
Of course, there is no obligation, ;ought or should to do that. Why do you think it should? For one thing, as I might have mentioned occasionally, there is zero evidence for any godd/spirit/etc existing other than as an idea in human brains.
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and , if so, then you don’t have an argument at all. I can only suggest being careful with the argument of supernatural reality.
You’ll have to explain that – I can’t see what you mean.
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It works both ways. IMO, of course.
What does?!! And How?
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My definition is simple, god is the word people use to name the meaning they find in life. Not “supernatural “ at all.
If that were true, then there would be a cessation of people killing others because of the others’ beliefs. And, of course, the word God would lose its authority because the religious leaders claiming its existence would be shown to be spreading falsehoods.
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Hope this helps!
I don’t know about that, but it has made a very interesting start to my Saturday! Thank you.

Susan

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Free will or not? 1291 greengirl5 04-Nov-18 21:54
Re: Free will or not? 287 Itatw70s 04-Nov-18 22:51
Re: Free will or not? 251 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 00:02
Re: Free will or not? 225 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 03:19
Re: Free will or not? 215 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 04:01
Re: Free will or not? 212 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 05:01
Re: Free will or not? 212 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 05:10
Re: Free will or not? 200 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 05:25
Re: Free will or not? 218 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 06:18
The chocolate made me do it 191 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 07:35
Re: The chocolate made me do it 202 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 08:00
Re: The chocolate made me do it 218 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 09:18
Re: The chocolate made me do it 230 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 10:00
Re: The chocolate made me do it 215 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 12:18
Re: The chocolate made me do it 186 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 12:57
Re: The chocolate made me do it, but did not make me think! 211 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:25
Re: The chocolate made me do it 227 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 15:05
Security and randomness 207 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 08:19
Re: Security and randomness 197 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 12:51
Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 199 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 11:40
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 197 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 12:22
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 199 Itatw70s 05-Nov-18 12:48
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 207 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:35
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 196 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 13:04
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 192 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 15:28
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 194 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 19:57
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 219 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 20:39
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 188 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 06:21
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 220 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 09:19
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 203 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 10:37
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 194 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 14:09
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 207 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 14:23
scientific vs. clinical perspective on consciousness 199 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 19:01
Various states of consciousness 192 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 21:32
Re: Various states of consciousness 200 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 00:37
Re: Various states of consciousness 207 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 01:11
Re: Various states of consciousness 196 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 06:11
Re: Various states of consciousness 212 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 07:28
Re: Various states of consciousness 203 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 08:28
you're totally lost here 202 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 08:55
Re: you're totally lost here 198 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 09:52
Re: you're totally lost here 199 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 12:02
Re: you're totally lost here 211 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 16:03
Keep the science out 231 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 18:25
Re: Various states of consciousness 210 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 08:58
Re: Various states of consciousness 211 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 10:14
Re: Various states of consciousness 203 Eddie Larry 07-Nov-18 19:04
Re: Various states of consciousness 199 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 21:18
Was Einstein a scientist? 199 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 21:55
Not a materialist 199 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 22:14
Re: Not a materialist 189 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 01:16
Butting in 197 drrayeye 08-Nov-18 06:24
Re: Not a materialist 208 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 02:30
Re: Not a materialist 194 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 05:58
Re: Not a materialist 176 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 07:19
Re: Various states of consciousness 208 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 01:13
Re: Various states of consciousness 190 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 01:08
Re: Various states of consciousness 194 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 02:17
Re: Various states of consciousness 202 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 06:07
Interpretations 202 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 07:23
Re: Various states of consciousness 227 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 07:32
Re: Various states of consciousness 228 Eddie Larry 08-Nov-18 18:26
Re: Various states of consciousness 195 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 06:16
Re: Various states of consciousness 193 Eddie Larry 09-Nov-18 23:57
May the force be with you! 216 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 01:57
Re: May the force be with you! 207 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 02:20
Re: May the force be with you! 203 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 04:10
Re: May the force be with you! 203 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 14:10
Re: May the force be with you! 196 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 20:26
Re: Various states of consciousness 217 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 08:15
Religious leaders and others 197 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 09:55
Re: Religious leaders and others 224 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 12:04
Pathological disbeliever 206 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 20:32
Re: Pathological disbeliever 207 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 06:01
Re: Various states of consciousness 197 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 14:27
Whose fault? 190 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 21:00
Re: Whose fault? 209 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 21:12
Re: Whose fault? 199 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 06:05
Re: Whose fault? 205 greengirl5 11-Nov-18 06:38
Re: Whose fault? 205 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 07:14
Susan's sociological theory of religions 194 drrayeye 10-Nov-18 19:10
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 215 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 20:14
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 185 drrayeye 11-Nov-18 02:16
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 194 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 06:14
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 196 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 12:46
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 187 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 03:54
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 203 Susan Doris 13-Nov-18 06:14
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 183 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 04:11
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 203 Susan Doris 13-Nov-18 06:29
Maybe a cheer leader for science 189 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 08:34
"T of E" vs. "t of e"? 189 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 08:41
N R F 189 greengirl5 13-Nov-18 09:28
Re: "T of E" vs. "t of e"? 202 Susan Doris 13-Nov-18 17:59
Re: "T of E" vs. "t of e"? 180 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 20:16
Re: "T of E" vs. "t of e"? 333 Susan Doris 14-Nov-18 02:16
Superstitious behavior 198 drrayeye 08-Nov-18 20:40
Re: Superstitious behavior 181 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 20:53
Re: Superstitious behavior 207 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 06:30
another day--another rant. 185 drrayeye 09-Nov-18 09:15
Re: another day--another rant. 204 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 11:11
Free will 183 drrayeye 10-Nov-18 08:20
Superstitions 158 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 20:48
Re: Various states of consciousness 174 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 20:49
Re: Various states of consciousness 180 Eddie Larry 08-Nov-18 04:08
You're not following 203 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 08:47
Re: Free will or not? 199 Jock 06-Nov-18 17:00
Re: Free will or not? 217 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 18:04
Re: Free will or not? 216 Jock 08-Nov-18 21:38
Re: Free will or not? 203 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 06:41
Re: Free will or not? 178 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 07:32
Re: Free will or not? 191 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 07:48
Completely off the wall 183 drrayeye 09-Nov-18 13:01
Re: Completely off the wall 213 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 13:56
Re: Completely off the wall 184 drrayeye 09-Nov-18 18:00
Re: Completely off the wall 191 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 18:31
Re: Completely off the wall 215 Jock 09-Nov-18 20:11
Contumelious 178 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 21:29
Re: Completely off the wall 180 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 08:25
Re: Completely off the wall 190 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 21:17
Re-education 199 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 21:08
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 263 M. J. Thomas 05-Nov-18 14:45
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 228 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 15:46
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 242 M. J. Thomas 06-Nov-18 10:43
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 192 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 14:13
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 221 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 14:28
So what is God to you? 193 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 21:47
Re: So what is God to you? 221 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 00:48
Re: So what is God to you? 188 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 01:21
Re: So what is God to you? 211 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 01:38
Re: So what is God to you? 192 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 02:07
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 219 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 20:04
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 202 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:51
Me too! 211 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:47
No-Name freedom.... 204 Itatw70s 06-Nov-18 01:12
The way 206 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 02:19
Re: Free will or not? 210 Itatw70s 06-Nov-18 12:25
Re: Free will or not? 215 Eddie Larry 06-Nov-18 14:34
Re: Free will or not? 206 Itatw70s 06-Nov-18 16:42
Way to go! 204 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 21:52
The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 205 Itatw70s 07-Nov-18 00:41
Re: The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 238 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 01:24
Re: The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 232 Itatw70s 07-Nov-18 12:40
Re: The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 220 Enigcom 07-Nov-18 16:15
Re: Free will or not? 224 Itatw70s 07-Nov-18 20:55
Re: Free will or not? 202 Enigcom 11-Nov-18 22:10
Re: Free will or not? 202 wilpsy3 10-Nov-18 21:39


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