Inner Space :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For discussions on all matters relating to personal development, religion, philosophy, psychology and so on. 
Welcome! Log InRegister
Nolondil Wrote:

An excellent answer!
-------------------------------------------------------
> Poster Boy Wrote:
>
> > Leaving aside the churches' corrupting
> influences,
> > what about those serial killers, etc? Surely
> you
> > wouldn't liken them to less-than-perfect
> > archers!?
> >
>
Nolondil This will quickly lead us into the weeds of the
> definitions of individual identity and free will.
> How did the 'serial killer' become a
> 'serial killer'? Was it some sort of traumatic
> experience in their own lives (which may of them
> do have when you investigate) and how well did
> they cope with it? And when does someone begin to
> be held responsible for themselves?...
> The greater consequences don't change the nature
> of the situation. On the other hand, if they could
> not have changed the outcome, they are not
> entirely responsible, are they? :)

PB - I firmly agree.
>
> And these questions are a smaller scale version of
> the question of the nature of evil. Is evil 'real'
> in itself? Or merely a separation/privation from
> the good? This is the famous distinction between
> Augustine/Boethius (and the generally held
> 'Christian' view) that evil is merely privation of
> good -- loss of perfection -- and the Manichean
> view that evil is something real in itself,
> independent of and opposed to good -- and
> irredeemable...

PB And...
>
Nolondil > > Mainly, I dispute that this authority
> exists
> > > among mortal kind.
> >
PB > If I may ask, do you believe that such an
> > authority does or might exist elsewhere?
>
Nolondil - This really could get into metaphysics. Are there
> 'beings of higher rank' than humans? Something
> that does come up on this board from time to time.
> :) Personally, I wasn't thinking of some other
> 'authority', I was thinking of laws of cause and
> effect more like karma. Which humans could not
> alter any more than the laws of physics.

PB, it does necessarily get into metaphysics, I think. Personally,
when it comes to this issue I rely mainly on my own life experience,
rather than turning to the philosophies of others. In this context
I refer to various spiritual experiences, where I believe this matter
was addressed.

For whatever it's worth, Nolondil, at the end of the day, I believe
that we live in a universe that is ultimately an extension of a greater Mind,
that we generally call God. Others call it the Tao, some the Brahman etc.

The perception of separation between 'Mind' and matter, or the universal
infinite-Mind and the sub-infinite realms is/are the ultimate
Maya, and at the higher levels of awareness this becomes clear and is
something that can be directly experienced, if only temporarily.

To your earlier point, in my estimation it follows that there is potential
to sin at various sub-infinite levels, and that such manifestations are
likely often due to indirect causes where the individual soul becomes a
victim of its environment or is prone to error for being sub-infinitely aware -
regardless of how advanced or high that level is. Such errors contain a
volitional element, but are not necessarily evil when initially made although
there seems to be great potential to exacerbate the consequences of such
original sins. Susan alludes to thresholds in this thread. I suppose that I
would say that there is such a line, with the most serious consequences being
appropriately called 'evil' for various reasons.

So, my own conclusion is that 'sin' and 'evil' are very real, but born of the
separation that necessarily follows immersion into the sub-infinite realms. I
believe that Jesus somehow understood, or was made to understand, the mechanics
of Mind-matter physics and somehow understood that dying for our sins was the remedy.
Mind-matter physics would probably be the "authority" that I envision, Nolondil, or
a significant part of it. I believe there is a universal God, of course, but I
don't think He whimsically goes about punishing us for our transgressions as much
as we set in motion processes that are more mechanistic, ie 'karmic' in nature.
Karma likely speaks to the concept of 'original' sin, I figure. As a doctrine
there is no contradiction about us being born as sinners if in the past we have
incurred karmic debt.

PB



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 31-May-18 19:03 by Poster Boy.

Options: ReplyQuote


Subject Views Written By Posted
Sin - do you?! 1245 Susan Doris 26-May-18 12:37
Re: Sin - do you?! 254 PB Bytes 26-May-18 13:38
Re: Sin - do you?! 244 Susan Doris 26-May-18 13:53
Re: Sin - do you?! 244 PB Bytes 26-May-18 18:11
Re: Sin - do you?! 246 Susan Doris 26-May-18 18:36
Re: Sin - do you?! 236 PB Bytes 26-May-18 22:49
Re: Sin - do you?! 237 Eddie Larry 26-May-18 18:34
Re: Sin - do you?! 217 Susan Doris 27-May-18 05:18
Re: Sin - do you?! 229 Eddie Larry 27-May-18 13:20
Re: Sin - do you?! 228 Susan Doris 27-May-18 14:00
Re: Sin - do you?! 214 Eddie Larry 27-May-18 14:11
Re: Sin - do you?! 238 PB Bytes 27-May-18 17:06
Re: Sin - do you?! 223 Susan Doris 27-May-18 17:18
Re: Sin - do you?! 214 PB Bytes 27-May-18 17:22
Re: Sin - do you?! 202 Eddie Larry 27-May-18 19:09
Re: Sin - do you?! 235 PB Bytes 27-May-18 20:57
Re: Sin - do you?! 214 Susan Doris 28-May-18 05:25
Re: Sin - do you?! 228 PB Bytes 28-May-18 14:00
Re: Sin - do you?! 224 Susan Doris 28-May-18 14:13
Re: Sin - do you?! 231 PB Bytes 28-May-18 16:06
Re: Sin - do you?! 289 MLloydHudson 26-May-18 18:43
Re: Sin - do you?! 227 drrayeye 26-May-18 18:59
Re: Sin - do you?! 240 Susan Doris 27-May-18 05:29
Re: Sin - do you?! 269 MLloydHudson 28-May-18 06:28
mistake vs. sin: a example 238 drrayeye 26-May-18 20:03
Re: mistake vs. sin: a example 218 greengirl5 26-May-18 23:14
Re: mistake vs. sin: a example 216 Susan Doris 27-May-18 06:20
Re: mistake vs. sin: a example 233 Susan Doris 27-May-18 06:07
Re: mistake vs. sin: a example 227 drrayeye 28-May-18 03:09
Re: Sin - do you?! 257 drew 27-May-18 05:22
Re: Sin - do you?! 243 Susan Doris 27-May-18 06:28
Re: Sin - do you?! 270 drew 28-May-18 02:28
Re: Sin - do you?! 213 PB Bytes 28-May-18 02:18
Re: Sin - do you?! 217 Susan Doris 28-May-18 05:18
Sin or mistake 219 greengirl5 28-May-18 13:33
Re: Sin or mistake 213 Eddie Larry 28-May-18 13:49
Re: Sin or mistake 227 Susan Doris 28-May-18 14:11
Re: Sin or mistake 210 Eddie Larry 28-May-18 14:30
Re: Sin or mistake 230 Susan Doris 28-May-18 13:50
Sinners and money-lenders 320 greengirl5 28-May-18 23:25
Re: Sinners and money-lenders 213 Susan Doris 29-May-18 05:27
Re: Sinners and money-lenders 226 greengirl5 29-May-18 07:08
Re: Sinners and money-lenders 210 Susan Doris 29-May-18 14:46
Re: Sin - do you?! 211 PB Bytes 28-May-18 14:03
Re: Sin - do you?! 232 Susan Doris 28-May-18 14:16
Re: Sin - do you?! 212 PB Bytes 28-May-18 14:25
Re: Sin - do you?! 235 Susan Doris 28-May-18 15:12
Re: Sin - do you?! 228 PB Bytes 28-May-18 15:52
Re: Sin - do you?! 214 Susan Doris 28-May-18 17:11
Re: Sin - do you?! 239 PB Bytes 28-May-18 17:39
Re: Sin - do you?! 218 Susan Doris 29-May-18 05:45
Re: Sin - do you?! 224 greengirl5 29-May-18 07:27
Re: Sin - do you?! 219 Susan Doris 29-May-18 15:00
Re: Sin - do you?! 216 PB Bytes 29-May-18 22:10
Re: Sin - do you?! 233 greengirl5 29-May-18 23:12
Re: Sin - do you?! 281 Eddie Larry 30-May-18 04:24
Re: Sin - do you?! 259 drew 28-May-18 23:11
A complement--and a reminder 248 drrayeye 29-May-18 19:54
Re: A complement--and a reminder 233 Susan Doris 30-May-18 07:34
Re: A complement--and a reminder 228 drrayeye 30-May-18 08:57
Re: A complement--and a reminder 212 Susan Doris 30-May-18 12:32
Re: A complement--and a reminder 219 drrayeye 30-May-18 16:31
Re: A complement--and a reminder 212 Susan Doris 30-May-18 17:04
Re: A complement--and a reminder 221 drrayeye 30-May-18 20:24
Re: A complement--and a reminder 237 Susan Doris 31-May-18 05:14
A caveat 211 drrayeye 31-May-18 11:45
Re: A caveat 206 Susan Doris 31-May-18 14:48
Re: eloquence with words... 265 drew 02-Jun-18 01:12
Re: eloquence with words... 232 Susan Doris 02-Jun-18 05:19
Re: Sin - denotation and connotation 289 Nolondil 29-May-18 20:41
Deliberate obfuscation 252 drrayeye 29-May-18 23:20
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 297 Nolondil 29-May-18 23:50
I answer the question 219 drrayeye 30-May-18 08:32
Re: I answer the question 226 Susan Doris 30-May-18 08:40
See earlier reply 201 drrayeye 30-May-18 16:35
Re: I answer the question 219 greengirl5 30-May-18 13:05
Re: I answer the question 237 Eddie Larry 30-May-18 13:54
discernment 207 drrayeye 30-May-18 16:24
Re: discernment 241 Eddie Larry 30-May-18 22:32
Re: discernment 208 greengirl5 30-May-18 23:40
Re: discernment 268 Eddie Larry 31-May-18 00:02
Thunderstruck! 205 greengirl5 31-May-18 00:28
Re: discernment 199 Susan Doris 31-May-18 05:18
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 219 PB Bytes 30-May-18 23:14
Of course "sin" exists 222 greengirl5 30-May-18 23:54
Re: Of course "sin" exists 207 PB Bytes 31-May-18 01:16
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 268 Nolondil 31-May-18 00:11
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 232 greengirl5 31-May-18 00:43
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 219 PB Bytes 31-May-18 01:13
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 250 Nolondil 31-May-18 18:25
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 211 PB Bytes 31-May-18 19:00
Original sin--sort of 224 drrayeye 31-May-18 23:26
Re: Original sin--sort of 223 greengirl5 31-May-18 23:44
Re: Original sin--sort of 202 PB Bytes 01-Jun-18 03:59
Re: Original sin--sort of 217 Susan Doris 01-Jun-18 05:24
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 237 Nolondil 01-Jun-18 00:37
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 209 PB Bytes 01-Jun-18 01:35
Very interesting! 257 greengirl5 01-Jun-18 01:42
Re: Very interesting! 211 PB Bytes 01-Jun-18 04:12
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 225 Susan Doris 01-Jun-18 05:18
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 219 Susan Doris 31-May-18 05:28
If not 'mistakes' then what? 224 PB Bytes 31-May-18 15:18
Re: If not 'mistakes' then what? 209 Susan Doris 31-May-18 17:35
Re: If not 'mistakes' then what? 221 PB Bytes 31-May-18 18:05
Re: If not 'mistakes' then what? 219 Susan Doris 01-Jun-18 05:31
Isn't it quite simple? 250 greengirl5 29-May-18 23:55
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 239 greengirl5 30-May-18 00:11
Thinking in earnest now 237 greengirl5 30-May-18 00:40
Re: Thinking in earnest now 289 Nolondil 30-May-18 00:55
Re: Thinking in earnest now 210 Susan Doris 30-May-18 08:37
Re: Thinking in earnest now 245 Eddie Larry 30-May-18 09:50
Re: Thinking in earnest now 221 Susan Doris 30-May-18 11:08
Re: Thinking in earnest now 257 Eddie Larry 30-May-18 17:46
Re: Thinking in earnest now 221 Susan Doris 31-May-18 05:38
Re: Thinking in earnest now 228 greengirl5 31-May-18 12:57
Re: Thinking in earnest now 252 Eddie Larry 31-May-18 14:01
Re: Thinking in earnest now 211 greengirl5 31-May-18 14:19
Re: Thinking in earnest now 212 Susan Doris 31-May-18 14:54
Re: Thinking in earnest now 248 Eddie Larry 31-May-18 17:35
Re: Thinking in earnest now 223 Susan Doris 31-May-18 17:40
Re: Thinking in earnest now 233 Eddie Larry 31-May-18 18:25
Smart/intelligent slime 205 greengirl5 01-Jun-18 08:05
Re: Smart/intelligent slime 202 Susan Doris 01-Jun-18 13:29
Intelligent slime - not that simple! 217 greengirl5 01-Jun-18 23:03
Re: Intelligent slime - not that simple! 261 Susan Doris 02-Jun-18 05:36
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 296 MLloydHudson 31-May-18 02:20
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 217 greengirl5 31-May-18 02:56
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 210 Susan Doris 31-May-18 05:48
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 232 MLloydHudson 30-May-18 22:11
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 234 greengirl5 31-May-18 00:12
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 209 Susan Doris 31-May-18 06:35
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 225 Susan Doris 30-May-18 12:09
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 212 PB Bytes 30-May-18 16:52
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 220 Susan Doris 30-May-18 17:41
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 232 PB Bytes 30-May-18 18:30
Another brainstorm of mine 223 greengirl5 31-May-18 00:56
Re: Another brainstorm of mine 219 PB Bytes 31-May-18 01:18
Re: Another brainstorm of mine 219 Susan Doris 31-May-18 06:53
Re: Another brainstorm of mine 211 greengirl5 31-May-18 13:13
Re: Another brainstorm of mine 208 Susan Doris 31-May-18 15:02
the bible and God 231 greengirl5 01-Jun-18 08:16
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 212 Susan Doris 31-May-18 06:41
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 225 PB Bytes 31-May-18 19:14
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 295 MLloydHudson 31-May-18 03:41
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 224 PB Bytes 31-May-18 04:22
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 219 Susan Doris 31-May-18 07:11
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 238 PB Bytes 31-May-18 17:35
Job 235 PB Bytes 31-May-18 04:37
Re: Job 224 Susan Doris 31-May-18 07:14
Re: Sin - denotation and connotation 246 Susan Doris 30-May-18 08:00
Re: Sin - do you?! 263 Susan Doris 30-May-18 05:02
Sin do you... 340 drew 25-Jun-18 23:44


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.