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Poster Boy - This is an unfair onus, Susan, unless you or a single one of your secular colleagues can provide a hard and fast definition of things that we all agree exist, like happiness or sadness. Care to define exactly what either of those terms mean? I don't think that you or anyone here can do that. So, why ask others such impossible questions?

Lloyd - I apologize. I know this question was NOT directed at me, but is in the open forum (not a private message), so please excuse me for responding.

Right you are. All opinions are valid here, Lloyd, so have at it.

There was no disrespect intended to Susan on my part, when I invoked the term "unfair" and what followed. It's just that I am certain that I know where this line of discussion leads.

Secularists often place unfair burdens on believers, when it comes to the mechanics of why we believe. In many cases, this plays out as an unwillingness to consider evidence or dismiss it outright; then they preach that 'evidence' is what matters to modern thinkers and that to not agree with such a thing is not rational. Basically, those secularists who think this don't know what 'rationalism' is.

The notion of trying to get a believe to demonstrate exactly what a sin is is equally skewed, and the best way to demonstrate that is to shift the onus by asking them to describe an abstract perception that we all agree is real, like happiness. Case closed, unless anyone reading this can provide a tidy definition of happiness, one that we can all agree completely defines that concept. Like 1 plus 1 equals 2.


Lloyd - As important (perhaps more so) no one ought to be attacked personally for asking a question, even a silly impertinent one so long as it's on topic.

Let me be clear about another thing, Lloyd. I don't think that Susan's question or her topic here is 'silly'. On the contrary, I think it's worthy of discussion which is not something I find here a lot anymore. At the end of the day, Susan believes that there is no sin and that we only make mistakes. That, I would say, is incorrect and is not very well considered. I would say, further, that the reason why it isn't considered is because Susan has a very strong secular bias. To say that a serial pedophile, rapist, etc etc etc simply makes "mistakes" is, in my opinion, not silly but ridiculous.

That said, I agree with Nolondil that Susan has raised an indirectly related point here, that being the extent to which we are guilt driven by people who would make us feel incarerated by such things, if we let them.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Sin - do you?! 1231 Susan Doris 26-May-18 12:37
Re: Sin - do you?! 242 PB Bytes 26-May-18 13:38
Re: Sin - do you?! 231 Susan Doris 26-May-18 13:53
Re: Sin - do you?! 234 PB Bytes 26-May-18 18:11
Re: Sin - do you?! 238 Susan Doris 26-May-18 18:36
Re: Sin - do you?! 227 PB Bytes 26-May-18 22:49
Re: Sin - do you?! 225 Eddie Larry 26-May-18 18:34
Re: Sin - do you?! 207 Susan Doris 27-May-18 05:18
Re: Sin - do you?! 221 Eddie Larry 27-May-18 13:20
Re: Sin - do you?! 219 Susan Doris 27-May-18 14:00
Re: Sin - do you?! 206 Eddie Larry 27-May-18 14:11
Re: Sin - do you?! 227 PB Bytes 27-May-18 17:06
Re: Sin - do you?! 215 Susan Doris 27-May-18 17:18
Re: Sin - do you?! 204 PB Bytes 27-May-18 17:22
Re: Sin - do you?! 193 Eddie Larry 27-May-18 19:09
Re: Sin - do you?! 227 PB Bytes 27-May-18 20:57
Re: Sin - do you?! 204 Susan Doris 28-May-18 05:25
Re: Sin - do you?! 216 PB Bytes 28-May-18 14:00
Re: Sin - do you?! 215 Susan Doris 28-May-18 14:13
Re: Sin - do you?! 222 PB Bytes 28-May-18 16:06
Re: Sin - do you?! 280 MLloydHudson 26-May-18 18:43
Re: Sin - do you?! 218 drrayeye 26-May-18 18:59
Re: Sin - do you?! 230 Susan Doris 27-May-18 05:29
Re: Sin - do you?! 260 MLloydHudson 28-May-18 06:28
mistake vs. sin: a example 228 drrayeye 26-May-18 20:03
Re: mistake vs. sin: a example 207 greengirl5 26-May-18 23:14
Re: mistake vs. sin: a example 207 Susan Doris 27-May-18 06:20
Re: mistake vs. sin: a example 224 Susan Doris 27-May-18 06:07
Re: mistake vs. sin: a example 218 drrayeye 28-May-18 03:09
Re: Sin - do you?! 247 drew 27-May-18 05:22
Re: Sin - do you?! 233 Susan Doris 27-May-18 06:28
Re: Sin - do you?! 262 drew 28-May-18 02:28
Re: Sin - do you?! 204 PB Bytes 28-May-18 02:18
Re: Sin - do you?! 208 Susan Doris 28-May-18 05:18
Sin or mistake 210 greengirl5 28-May-18 13:33
Re: Sin or mistake 203 Eddie Larry 28-May-18 13:49
Re: Sin or mistake 218 Susan Doris 28-May-18 14:11
Re: Sin or mistake 202 Eddie Larry 28-May-18 14:30
Re: Sin or mistake 220 Susan Doris 28-May-18 13:50
Sinners and money-lenders 311 greengirl5 28-May-18 23:25
Re: Sinners and money-lenders 205 Susan Doris 29-May-18 05:27
Re: Sinners and money-lenders 217 greengirl5 29-May-18 07:08
Re: Sinners and money-lenders 201 Susan Doris 29-May-18 14:46
Re: Sin - do you?! 203 PB Bytes 28-May-18 14:03
Re: Sin - do you?! 223 Susan Doris 28-May-18 14:16
Re: Sin - do you?! 203 PB Bytes 28-May-18 14:25
Re: Sin - do you?! 226 Susan Doris 28-May-18 15:12
Re: Sin - do you?! 219 PB Bytes 28-May-18 15:52
Re: Sin - do you?! 206 Susan Doris 28-May-18 17:11
Re: Sin - do you?! 231 PB Bytes 28-May-18 17:39
Re: Sin - do you?! 210 Susan Doris 29-May-18 05:45
Re: Sin - do you?! 215 greengirl5 29-May-18 07:27
Re: Sin - do you?! 208 Susan Doris 29-May-18 15:00
Re: Sin - do you?! 207 PB Bytes 29-May-18 22:10
Re: Sin - do you?! 224 greengirl5 29-May-18 23:12
Re: Sin - do you?! 271 Eddie Larry 30-May-18 04:24
Re: Sin - do you?! 251 drew 28-May-18 23:11
A complement--and a reminder 240 drrayeye 29-May-18 19:54
Re: A complement--and a reminder 225 Susan Doris 30-May-18 07:34
Re: A complement--and a reminder 220 drrayeye 30-May-18 08:57
Re: A complement--and a reminder 201 Susan Doris 30-May-18 12:32
Re: A complement--and a reminder 211 drrayeye 30-May-18 16:31
Re: A complement--and a reminder 204 Susan Doris 30-May-18 17:04
Re: A complement--and a reminder 212 drrayeye 30-May-18 20:24
Re: A complement--and a reminder 227 Susan Doris 31-May-18 05:14
A caveat 203 drrayeye 31-May-18 11:45
Re: A caveat 195 Susan Doris 31-May-18 14:48
Re: eloquence with words... 256 drew 02-Jun-18 01:12
Re: eloquence with words... 223 Susan Doris 02-Jun-18 05:19
Re: Sin - denotation and connotation 280 Nolondil 29-May-18 20:41
Deliberate obfuscation 244 drrayeye 29-May-18 23:20
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 288 Nolondil 29-May-18 23:50
I answer the question 211 drrayeye 30-May-18 08:32
Re: I answer the question 218 Susan Doris 30-May-18 08:40
See earlier reply 193 drrayeye 30-May-18 16:35
Re: I answer the question 210 greengirl5 30-May-18 13:05
Re: I answer the question 228 Eddie Larry 30-May-18 13:54
discernment 197 drrayeye 30-May-18 16:24
Re: discernment 233 Eddie Larry 30-May-18 22:32
Re: discernment 199 greengirl5 30-May-18 23:40
Re: discernment 260 Eddie Larry 31-May-18 00:02
Thunderstruck! 196 greengirl5 31-May-18 00:28
Re: discernment 190 Susan Doris 31-May-18 05:18
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 209 PB Bytes 30-May-18 23:14
Of course "sin" exists 212 greengirl5 30-May-18 23:54
Re: Of course "sin" exists 198 PB Bytes 31-May-18 01:16
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 256 Nolondil 31-May-18 00:11
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 223 greengirl5 31-May-18 00:43
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 210 PB Bytes 31-May-18 01:13
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 241 Nolondil 31-May-18 18:25
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 201 PB Bytes 31-May-18 19:00
Original sin--sort of 215 drrayeye 31-May-18 23:26
Re: Original sin--sort of 215 greengirl5 31-May-18 23:44
Re: Original sin--sort of 192 PB Bytes 01-Jun-18 03:59
Re: Original sin--sort of 209 Susan Doris 01-Jun-18 05:24
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 228 Nolondil 01-Jun-18 00:37
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 200 PB Bytes 01-Jun-18 01:35
Very interesting! 246 greengirl5 01-Jun-18 01:42
Re: Very interesting! 202 PB Bytes 01-Jun-18 04:12
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 216 Susan Doris 01-Jun-18 05:18
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 208 Susan Doris 31-May-18 05:28
If not 'mistakes' then what? 216 PB Bytes 31-May-18 15:18
Re: If not 'mistakes' then what? 201 Susan Doris 31-May-18 17:35
Re: If not 'mistakes' then what? 213 PB Bytes 31-May-18 18:05
Re: If not 'mistakes' then what? 210 Susan Doris 01-Jun-18 05:31
Isn't it quite simple? 240 greengirl5 29-May-18 23:55
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 230 greengirl5 30-May-18 00:11
Thinking in earnest now 229 greengirl5 30-May-18 00:40
Re: Thinking in earnest now 281 Nolondil 30-May-18 00:55
Re: Thinking in earnest now 202 Susan Doris 30-May-18 08:37
Re: Thinking in earnest now 234 Eddie Larry 30-May-18 09:50
Re: Thinking in earnest now 212 Susan Doris 30-May-18 11:08
Re: Thinking in earnest now 249 Eddie Larry 30-May-18 17:46
Re: Thinking in earnest now 213 Susan Doris 31-May-18 05:38
Re: Thinking in earnest now 218 greengirl5 31-May-18 12:57
Re: Thinking in earnest now 243 Eddie Larry 31-May-18 14:01
Re: Thinking in earnest now 202 greengirl5 31-May-18 14:19
Re: Thinking in earnest now 203 Susan Doris 31-May-18 14:54
Re: Thinking in earnest now 238 Eddie Larry 31-May-18 17:35
Re: Thinking in earnest now 213 Susan Doris 31-May-18 17:40
Re: Thinking in earnest now 222 Eddie Larry 31-May-18 18:25
Smart/intelligent slime 197 greengirl5 01-Jun-18 08:05
Re: Smart/intelligent slime 193 Susan Doris 01-Jun-18 13:29
Intelligent slime - not that simple! 209 greengirl5 01-Jun-18 23:03
Re: Intelligent slime - not that simple! 252 Susan Doris 02-Jun-18 05:36
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 284 MLloydHudson 31-May-18 02:20
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 209 greengirl5 31-May-18 02:56
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 202 Susan Doris 31-May-18 05:48
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 224 MLloydHudson 30-May-18 22:11
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 225 greengirl5 31-May-18 00:12
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 200 Susan Doris 31-May-18 06:35
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 214 Susan Doris 30-May-18 12:09
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 203 PB Bytes 30-May-18 16:52
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 210 Susan Doris 30-May-18 17:41
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 223 PB Bytes 30-May-18 18:30
Another brainstorm of mine 213 greengirl5 31-May-18 00:56
Re: Another brainstorm of mine 210 PB Bytes 31-May-18 01:18
Re: Another brainstorm of mine 210 Susan Doris 31-May-18 06:53
Re: Another brainstorm of mine 202 greengirl5 31-May-18 13:13
Re: Another brainstorm of mine 199 Susan Doris 31-May-18 15:02
the bible and God 223 greengirl5 01-Jun-18 08:16
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 202 Susan Doris 31-May-18 06:41
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 214 PB Bytes 31-May-18 19:14
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 280 MLloydHudson 31-May-18 03:41
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 215 PB Bytes 31-May-18 04:22
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 209 Susan Doris 31-May-18 07:11
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 229 PB Bytes 31-May-18 17:35
Job 226 PB Bytes 31-May-18 04:37
Re: Job 216 Susan Doris 31-May-18 07:14
Re: Sin - denotation and connotation 238 Susan Doris 30-May-18 08:00
Re: Sin - do you?! 254 Susan Doris 30-May-18 05:02
Sin do you... 329 drew 25-Jun-18 23:44


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