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OCaptain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> laughin Wrote:
>
> > In real science
> > one does not keep "revisiting some assumptions"
> > for each new discovery
> > and then say "black holes do best fit the data"
>
> Then it should be quite easy for you to find
> real published, peer-reviewed science that backs
> your statement. You're asking me to defend the
> science behind black holes, when you haven't even
> shown exactly where black hole theory (or whatever
> you want to call it) falls short. Further, I'm not
> responsible for that science, but unlike you, I
> give specialists the benefit of the doubt - in
> their specialty. I defer to them until I have
> reason not to.



[blackholes.stardate.org]

Quote

When Schwarzschild, a 42-year-old mathematician who was in charge of a German military weather station, read Einstein's new theory, which was published in 1916, he used it to make some calculations of his own. Schwarzschild found that if you squeezed enough mass into a small enough volume, its gravity would become almost infinitely strong. It would warp the space around it so strongly that nothing could escape from it -- not even light. In essence, the object would be invisible to the outside universe: matter and energy could fall into it, but nothing could come back out.

Schwarzschild's calculations provided the scientific basis for the concept of black holes.

This "infinitely strong" gravity is the result of having a "zero" in the denominator of his equation
( see the "dividing by zero" link)
so this is based upon "if" you squeeze enough mass into a small enough volume.....fantasy

Quote

Most of what astronomers know about black holes themselves is based on theoretical models. These models say that a black hole consists of a singularity -- an almost infinitely dense pinpoint of matter that contains the black hole's entire mass -- and a horizon, which to the outside universe forms the black hole's surface. It is not a physical surface, however, but the point at which the black hole's escape velocity -- the speed at which matter or energy must travel to get away -- exceeds the speed of light. Anything passing within the horizon can never come back out: It is trapped -- in a black hole.

Even Jonny here on the board admits there are no singularities....
and by definition, you need a singularity to trigger a black hole to form

and if you use a modified definition (model) to explain black holes
it means the original definition (model) was wrong!!!!

to explain this in basic steps...
1. the original equation (model) had specific terms with specific values
which when solved gave the singularity value = black hole
2. new information about the values of these terms, i.e., spin, temperature, x-rays, gravity waves,etc
have been added to define "what a black hole is"
3. this means the original equation was wrong
because it didn't include this new information
black holes, if they exist, have been the same before us "discovering them"as afterwards
they do not change because we find out new things about them
4. So the original equation and its assumptions of terms and values are incorrect

[blackholes.stardate.org]

Quote

The Science of Imagination

The evolution of our thinking about black holes is an evolution of both science and imagination. As he daydreamed of falling apples, Isaac Newton realized they were influenced by the same force that holds the Moon in orbit: gravity. By applying his discovery, others calculated that some stars might have such powerful gravity that not even light could escape them. And by imagining journeys through time and space, Albert Einstein realized that gravity is a curvature in spacetime; others discovered that it might be curved so severely that a massive object could be cloaked from sight. These discoveries and insights, and many others, led to the discovery and study of some of the most fascinating objects in the universe: black holes.





>
>
> laughin Wrote:
>
> > of course they would
> > when you modify your theory
> > to fit every new thingy that comes along
> >
> > every one of the black hole theories
> > from the beginning until now
> > have been WRONG
> > or else they wouldn't have needed to be
> modified
>
> Can you explain every one of the black hole
> theories from the beginning until now? And can you
> explain how they have each been wrong?
> Specifically?

>



>
> laughin Wrote:
>
> > how many times can a theory be wrong
> > before someone says "maybe we're going down the
> > wrong road"
> > and stops and asks for new directions?
>
> Let's work our way through your claim above
> first, shall we? Because, as of right now, you
> haven't shown that only one of those "theories" is
> wrong.

>
>
> laughin Wrote:
>
> > theories are suppose to PREDICT discoveries
> > and not constantly require modifications to the
> > assumptions
> > making changes to your theory AFTERWARD to make
> > things fit
> > means you don't know jack about what is really
> > going on. PERIOD
>
> Well, we'll see after you explain the specific
> shortcomings of all of the black hole theories.
>
> Go on, we're waiting.
>
> Brian

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Subject Views Written By Posted
gravity waves "detected" 1580 laughin 11-Feb-16 16:34
Re: gravity waves "detected" 579 Susan Doris 11-Feb-16 17:44
Re: gravity waves "detected" 470 Sirius7237 11-Feb-16 18:30
Re: gravity waves "detected" 572 laughin 11-Feb-16 21:20
Re: gravity waves "detected" 492 JonnyMcA 12-Feb-16 14:23
Re: gravity waves "detected" 528 laughin 12-Feb-16 15:51
Re: gravity waves "detected" 373 JonnyMcA 12-Feb-16 16:31
Re: gravity waves "detected" 482 laughin 13-Feb-16 18:26
Re: gravity waves "detected" 527 JonnyMcA 13-Feb-16 18:41
Re: gravity waves "detected" 596 Me 15-Feb-16 15:57
Re: gravity waves "detected" 444 laughin 15-Feb-16 20:17
Re: gravity waves "detected" 484 carolb 13-Feb-16 21:53
Re: gravity waves "detected" 379 D-Archer 14-Feb-16 11:16
Re: gravity waves "detected" 395 carolb 14-Feb-16 14:54
Re: gravity waves "detected" 393 Sirius7237 14-Feb-16 20:08
Re: gravity waves "detected" 490 carolb 14-Feb-16 22:31
Re: gravity waves "detected" 511 Aine 15-Feb-16 16:20
Re: gravity waves "detected" 428 D-Archer 15-Feb-16 09:59
Re: gravity waves "detected" 408 JonnyMcA 12-Feb-16 14:31
Re: gravity waves "detected" 444 carolb 13-Feb-16 21:29
Re: gravity waves "detected" 360 laughin 14-Feb-16 15:19
Re: gravity waves "detected" 303 skakos 15-Feb-16 14:07
Re: gravity waves "detected" 393 Pete Vanderzwet 11-Feb-16 21:06
Re: gravity waves "detected" 513 JonnyMcA 12-Feb-16 14:38
Onto Dark Energy waves! 452 Eddie Larry 11-Feb-16 21:34
It took 100 years to discover what Einstein already knew 310 David L 12-Feb-16 12:50
Re: It took 100 years to discover what Einstein already knew 400 Spiros 12-Feb-16 17:09
Re: It took 100 years to discover what Einstein already knew 463 D-Archer 15-Feb-16 12:47
Re: It took 100 years to discover what Einstein already knew 472 Aine 15-Feb-16 16:15
Re: It took 100 years to discover what Einstein already knew 425 D-Archer 15-Feb-16 18:53
Re: It took 100 years to discover what Einstein already knew 443 laughin 15-Feb-16 20:39
Re: It took 100 years to discover what Einstein already knew 385 Aine 16-Feb-16 01:48
Re: gravity waves "detected" 509 dong 12-Feb-16 18:36
Re: gravity waves "detected" 502 laughin 13-Feb-16 03:26
Re: gravity waves "detected" 428 dong 16-Feb-16 07:41
Liego 421 laughin 15-Feb-16 04:17
Gravity Waves of Propaganda the Sequel 412 D-Archer 15-Feb-16 09:48
Re: gravity waves "detected" 498 skakos 15-Feb-16 12:58
Re: gravity waves "detected" 461 Aine 15-Feb-16 22:31
Re: gravity waves "detected" 328 carolb 16-Feb-16 00:57
Re: gravity waves "detected" 407 D-Archer 16-Feb-16 11:47
Re: gravity waves "detected" 548 carolb 16-Feb-16 12:32
Re: gravity waves "detected" 361 D-Archer 16-Feb-16 14:13
Re: gravity waves "detected" 377 carolb 16-Feb-16 14:42
Re: gravity waves "detected" 347 D-Archer 16-Feb-16 15:17
Re: gravity waves "detected" 481 carolb 16-Feb-16 16:27
Re: gravity waves "detected" 493 D-Archer 17-Feb-16 14:08
Really? 378 Sirfiroth 17-Feb-16 15:11
Re: Really? 487 JonnyMcA 17-Feb-16 15:32
Re: Really? 477 D-Archer 17-Feb-16 15:42
Re: gravity waves "detected" 478 carolb 17-Feb-16 18:05
mods! 430 D-Archer 18-Feb-16 11:13
Re: mods! 517 carolb 18-Feb-16 14:14
Re: mods! 513 D-Archer 18-Feb-16 16:02
Re: gravity waves "detected" 592 Sirfiroth 17-Feb-16 01:06
Re: gravity waves "detected" 413 Aine 17-Feb-16 14:48
Re: gravity waves "detected" 457 JonnyMcA 17-Feb-16 15:19
Re: gravity waves "detected" 341 Sirfiroth 17-Feb-16 15:39
Re: gravity waves "detected" 428 JonnyMcA 17-Feb-16 17:37
Re: gravity waves "detected" 508 Aine 17-Feb-16 18:49
Re: gravity waves "detected" 451 laughin 16-Feb-16 20:24
Re: gravity waves "detected" 299 D-Archer 17-Feb-16 16:23
Gravy Waves 619 D-Archer 20-Feb-16 11:39
Playing devil’s advocate on the discovery of gravitational waves 561 laughin 02-Mar-16 18:23
Scientists: we're 100% convinced 386 laughin 07-Mar-16 17:13
Black holes and big bangs can't co-exist 484 laughin 13-Mar-16 04:52
Re: gravity waves "detected" 423 brett z 20-Apr-16 23:42
Re: gravity waves "detected" 430 laughin 21-Apr-16 14:02
Re: gravity waves "detected" 348 OCaptain 10-May-16 12:45
Re: gravity waves "detected" 335 laughin 10-May-16 13:16
Re: gravity waves "detected" 364 OCaptain 10-May-16 13:21
Re: gravity waves "detected" 411 laughin 10-May-16 19:25
Re: gravity waves "detected" 526 OCaptain 10-May-16 22:56
Re: gravity waves "detected" 426 laughin 11-May-16 15:32
Re: gravity waves "detected" 529 JonnyMcA 11-May-16 16:53
Re: gravity waves "detected" 529 laughin 12-May-16 16:26
pompousness "detected" 462 laughin 18-May-16 15:25
bump- 2 weeks 565 laughin 27-May-16 15:02
Re: bump- 3 weeks 505 laughin 02-Jun-16 23:20
Re: bump- 4 weeks and why isn't Carolb patrolling the threads 493 laughin 10-Jun-16 15:42
Gravitational Waves from Black Hole Megamergers Are Weaker Than Predicted 470 laughin 04-May-16 13:15
Re: Gravitational Waves from Black Hole Megamergers Are Weaker Than Predicted 483 D-Archer 09-May-16 19:05
Re: Gravitational Waves from Black Hole Megamergers Are Weaker Than Predicted 303 OCaptain 10-May-16 12:46
Re: Gravitational Waves from Black Hole Megamergers Are Weaker Than Predicted 512 laughin 10-May-16 13:27
Re: Gravitational Waves from Black Hole Megamergers Are Weaker Than Predicted 351 OCaptain 10-May-16 16:39
Re: Gravitational Waves from Black Hole Megamergers Are Weaker Than Predicted 411 laughin 10-May-16 19:10
how many times can you change the rules and still get a black hole 400 laughin 08-Jun-16 14:00
LIGO press conf, June 15 439 brett z 15-Jun-16 11:53
Re: LIGO press conf, June 15 424 D-Archer 15-Jun-16 14:48


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