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JonnyMcA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> laughin Wrote:
>
> > But some kind radiation has, in the past, been
> > what they tried to make gravity to be
> > all part of the "unification of the forces)
> > process
>
> This is incorrect. they are talking about teh
> unification of different forces/interactions. You
> use the word radiation as if it has only one
> meaning pertaining to EM. Alpha and beta
> radiation for example are particles, you get
> proton, and heavy ion radiation treatment for some
> cancers. The Weak force is mediated by W and Z
> bosons, and these are not EM radiation, but yet
> The EM force is unified with the Weak force at
> high energies. Your view is far too simplistic
> and misunderstood.
>
>
> > whatever it is, HAS to travel faster than
> light,
> > because the effect of gravity does
> >
> [grahamhancock.com]
>
> > ,1040448#msg-1040448
>
> Actually no. Gravity in a Newtonian gravity
> framework is instantaneous. In general relativity
> it has a finite speed, that of the speed of light.
> Gravitational waves cannot exist is Newtonian
> gravity. that is why this result is such a
> milestone, as it once again proves that the
> framework for general relativity is correct, and
> that Newtonian gravity is not correct, although
> the latter is a good approximation for slow speeds
> and small mass.
>
> > So they are saying that space is rippling, not
> > that some particle is traveling THRU space FTL
> > also, remember, space isn't made of particles
> (so
> > get any ideas of aether out of your head right
> > now)
> > If a ripple of "space" (chuckle) can travel
> faster
> > than light can travel through it
> > then GR isn't violated,
> > the effect can be as fast as needed
> > and if no particles are exchanged
> > no bosons or gravitons needed
> > (bosons!, we don't need no stinking bosons)
> > which explains why they haven't been found!!!!
> >
>
> Like all waves, gravitational waves are energy
> propagation through space. In the case of
> gravitational waves, this is manifested through
> the waving of space-time, just like an
> electromagnetic wave is a waving teh the
> electromagnetic field. Just like the
> electromagnetic field, no medium is required to
> carry the wave (unlike sound waves for example).
> As to why gravitons havent been found. Since
> gravitons are the quantised vibration of the
> gravitational field (much as photons are the
> quantised vibration of the EM field), and since an
> ensemble of gravitons would make up a
> gravitational wave (much like an ensemble of
> photons make up an EM wave), and since we have
> only just developed apparatus sensitive enough to
> detect gravitational waves, I think you are asking
> too much as to why we have not yet found
> gravitons!
>
>
> > Hey, I'm just trying to interpret their
> "findings"
> > before the Nobel
> > (it looks better to have the story straight
> > beforehand)
>
> > now the big question...?
> > what's shakin'? (an old hippy expression :) )
> > what (and how) is grabbing ahold of space and
> > shaking it?
> > especially since there is nothing to grab ahold
> > of.....
>
> It is an interesting question, and general
> relativity is not the end of the subject on how
> nature works, since at the quatum level it breaks
> down. When, or if, we ever develope a completely
> consistant theory of quantum gravity your big
> question may be answered...or not.
>
> BTW, its best to refer to them as gravitational
> waves. Gravity waves are something entirely
> different
> [en.wikipedia.org]
>
> Jonny


hi Jonny,

Quote

Hey, I'm just trying to interpret their "findings"
> before the Nobel
> (it looks better to have the story straight
> beforehand)

there is a lot of confusion about this "story"

1. what is actually detected (measured)
in theory the interferometer is measuring the stretching
and contracting of "space"
this is shown by the phase difference
between a split beam of light in two different directions

2. they claim this difference is from "ripples" in the fabric
of spacetime caused two black hole spiraling into each other
as they approach each other they shed "gravitational radiation"(energy)
causing the spacetime ripples
and this energy is carried away by the gravitational waves
[www.youtube.com]

but how does this gravitational radiation affect spacetime geometry
which isn't particles or anything else? Other than that's what
GR claims?

3. back to gravity which they claim is mediated thru a gravity field
of graviton thingies
the effect of gravity between ponderable bodies in reality is FTL
whether it is viewed through GR or Newt
so how does that work?
does spacetime geometry react FTL?
is gravity actually a giant form of quantum entanglement?
(which nobody seems upset about its ftl shenanigans)

in theory, nothing not even light, can escape a black hole
except GRAVITY, otherwise it would never attract anything
so gravitational radiation must be able to leave a black hole

so gravity acts faster than light
and is not affected by the same things as light
and unlike light, can grab hold of spacetime and shake it

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Subject Views Written By Posted
gravity waves "detected" 1649 laughin 11-Feb-16 16:34
Re: gravity waves "detected" 633 Susan Doris 11-Feb-16 17:44
Re: gravity waves "detected" 513 Sirius7237 11-Feb-16 18:30
Re: gravity waves "detected" 614 laughin 11-Feb-16 21:20
Re: gravity waves "detected" 534 JonnyMcA 12-Feb-16 14:23
Re: gravity waves "detected" 568 laughin 12-Feb-16 15:51
Re: gravity waves "detected" 417 JonnyMcA 12-Feb-16 16:31
Re: gravity waves "detected" 522 laughin 13-Feb-16 18:26
Re: gravity waves "detected" 564 JonnyMcA 13-Feb-16 18:41
Re: gravity waves "detected" 652 Me 15-Feb-16 15:57
Re: gravity waves "detected" 487 laughin 15-Feb-16 20:17
Re: gravity waves "detected" 526 carolb 13-Feb-16 21:53
Re: gravity waves "detected" 420 D-Archer 14-Feb-16 11:16
Re: gravity waves "detected" 442 carolb 14-Feb-16 14:54
Re: gravity waves "detected" 428 Sirius7237 14-Feb-16 20:08
Re: gravity waves "detected" 531 carolb 14-Feb-16 22:31
Re: gravity waves "detected" 554 Aine 15-Feb-16 16:20
Re: gravity waves "detected" 472 D-Archer 15-Feb-16 09:59
Re: gravity waves "detected" 457 JonnyMcA 12-Feb-16 14:31
Re: gravity waves "detected" 485 carolb 13-Feb-16 21:29
Re: gravity waves "detected" 401 laughin 14-Feb-16 15:19
Re: gravity waves "detected" 345 skakos 15-Feb-16 14:07
Re: gravity waves "detected" 434 Pete Vanderzwet 11-Feb-16 21:06
Re: gravity waves "detected" 553 JonnyMcA 12-Feb-16 14:38
Onto Dark Energy waves! 493 Eddie Larry 11-Feb-16 21:34
It took 100 years to discover what Einstein already knew 343 David L 12-Feb-16 12:50
Re: It took 100 years to discover what Einstein already knew 439 Spiros 12-Feb-16 17:09
Re: It took 100 years to discover what Einstein already knew 501 D-Archer 15-Feb-16 12:47
Re: It took 100 years to discover what Einstein already knew 510 Aine 15-Feb-16 16:15
Re: It took 100 years to discover what Einstein already knew 466 D-Archer 15-Feb-16 18:53
Re: It took 100 years to discover what Einstein already knew 484 laughin 15-Feb-16 20:39
Re: It took 100 years to discover what Einstein already knew 422 Aine 16-Feb-16 01:48
Re: gravity waves "detected" 544 dong 12-Feb-16 18:36
Re: gravity waves "detected" 542 laughin 13-Feb-16 03:26
Re: gravity waves "detected" 470 dong 16-Feb-16 07:41
Liego 458 laughin 15-Feb-16 04:17
Gravity Waves of Propaganda the Sequel 454 D-Archer 15-Feb-16 09:48
Re: gravity waves "detected" 546 skakos 15-Feb-16 12:58
Re: gravity waves "detected" 501 Aine 15-Feb-16 22:31
Re: gravity waves "detected" 374 carolb 16-Feb-16 00:57
Re: gravity waves "detected" 444 D-Archer 16-Feb-16 11:47
Re: gravity waves "detected" 596 carolb 16-Feb-16 12:32
Re: gravity waves "detected" 401 D-Archer 16-Feb-16 14:13
Re: gravity waves "detected" 413 carolb 16-Feb-16 14:42
Re: gravity waves "detected" 387 D-Archer 16-Feb-16 15:17
Re: gravity waves "detected" 525 carolb 16-Feb-16 16:27
Re: gravity waves "detected" 529 D-Archer 17-Feb-16 14:08
Really? 422 Sirfiroth 17-Feb-16 15:11
Re: Really? 529 JonnyMcA 17-Feb-16 15:32
Re: Really? 525 D-Archer 17-Feb-16 15:42
Re: gravity waves "detected" 517 carolb 17-Feb-16 18:05
mods! 471 D-Archer 18-Feb-16 11:13
Re: mods! 553 carolb 18-Feb-16 14:14
Re: mods! 559 D-Archer 18-Feb-16 16:02
Re: gravity waves "detected" 642 Sirfiroth 17-Feb-16 01:06
Re: gravity waves "detected" 451 Aine 17-Feb-16 14:48
Re: gravity waves "detected" 507 JonnyMcA 17-Feb-16 15:19
Re: gravity waves "detected" 388 Sirfiroth 17-Feb-16 15:39
Re: gravity waves "detected" 474 JonnyMcA 17-Feb-16 17:37
Re: gravity waves "detected" 549 Aine 17-Feb-16 18:49
Re: gravity waves "detected" 494 laughin 16-Feb-16 20:24
Re: gravity waves "detected" 339 D-Archer 17-Feb-16 16:23
Gravy Waves 661 D-Archer 20-Feb-16 11:39
Playing devil’s advocate on the discovery of gravitational waves 601 laughin 02-Mar-16 18:23
Scientists: we're 100% convinced 434 laughin 07-Mar-16 17:13
Black holes and big bangs can't co-exist 523 laughin 13-Mar-16 04:52
Re: gravity waves "detected" 467 Observer 20-Apr-16 23:42
Re: gravity waves "detected" 467 laughin 21-Apr-16 14:02
Re: gravity waves "detected" 384 OCaptain 10-May-16 12:45
Re: gravity waves "detected" 380 laughin 10-May-16 13:16
Re: gravity waves "detected" 404 OCaptain 10-May-16 13:21
Re: gravity waves "detected" 454 laughin 10-May-16 19:25
Re: gravity waves "detected" 567 OCaptain 10-May-16 22:56
Re: gravity waves "detected" 473 laughin 11-May-16 15:32
Re: gravity waves "detected" 586 JonnyMcA 11-May-16 16:53
Re: gravity waves "detected" 567 laughin 12-May-16 16:26
pompousness "detected" 503 laughin 18-May-16 15:25
bump- 2 weeks 602 laughin 27-May-16 15:02
Re: bump- 3 weeks 546 laughin 02-Jun-16 23:20
Re: bump- 4 weeks and why isn't Carolb patrolling the threads 528 laughin 10-Jun-16 15:42
Gravitational Waves from Black Hole Megamergers Are Weaker Than Predicted 507 laughin 04-May-16 13:15
Re: Gravitational Waves from Black Hole Megamergers Are Weaker Than Predicted 521 D-Archer 09-May-16 19:05
Re: Gravitational Waves from Black Hole Megamergers Are Weaker Than Predicted 346 OCaptain 10-May-16 12:46
Re: Gravitational Waves from Black Hole Megamergers Are Weaker Than Predicted 554 laughin 10-May-16 13:27
Re: Gravitational Waves from Black Hole Megamergers Are Weaker Than Predicted 394 OCaptain 10-May-16 16:39
Re: Gravitational Waves from Black Hole Megamergers Are Weaker Than Predicted 451 laughin 10-May-16 19:10
how many times can you change the rules and still get a black hole 440 laughin 08-Jun-16 14:00
LIGO press conf, June 15 478 Observer 15-Jun-16 11:53
Re: LIGO press conf, June 15 461 D-Archer 15-Jun-16 14:48


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