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carolb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Starbinder Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > carolb Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Starbinder Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Here you go Carol and anyone else
> interested.
> > > JP
> > > > Bibring states (in June 2015) that there is
> > no
> > > > surface ice anywhere to be found on the
> > comet,
> > > > even in the cracks where they've looked
> deep
> > > (I'm
> > > > assuming that's with the OSIRIS images that
> > > they
> > > > aren't showing us). He also says that the
> > comet
> > > > models that have been written about for
> > > decades,
> > > > which he says he had done many times, are
> > wrong
> > > > and that the model of the comet being 80%
> ice
> > > is
> > > > wrong. He goes on to say that ice is not
> the
> > > > binding force it is likely the grains they
> > see
> > > on
> > > > the surface.
> > > >
> > > > 1:06:00 to 1:09:00
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> [www.esa.int]
> play_of_Rosetta_conference
> > >
> > >
> > > Please see Jonny's post here, from last June,
> > > regarding that very issue:
> > >
> > >
> >
> [url=http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?3,72
> 1236,724503#msg-724503]Jonny's post[/url]
> > >
> > > Carol
> >
> >
> > The Rosetta teams seem to have had big
> surprises
> > in September 2014 and again in August 2015.
> > Surprises so big that they've admitted now that
> > they were "in denial" with respect to September
> > for the time being. The August data has yet to
> be
> > reported or even commented on.
> >
> > The following quote is from the ESA Rosetta
> Blog
> > concerning abundant oxygen (September 2014
> data)
> > and jet outbursts (July/August 2015 data).
> >
> > "Quite apart from the devastation effect which
> > this finding of abundant molecular oxygen above
> > the surface of the 67P nucleus is having on the
> > current paradigm not only of how comets, but
> also
> > the solar system itself formed, I consider the
> > most revealing aspect of this finding to be its
> > implications for how mainstream science is
> > conducted. As Kathrin Altwegg admitted, the
> team
> > was “in denial” for many long months, so
> > utterly impossible did the finding appear and
> so
> > totally inconsistent was it with everything
> that
> > the “consensus” opinion believed about the
> > composition of comet nuclei. As André Bieler
> > admitted, “As soon as we got close enough to
> the
> > comet, we actually found it right away” .
> That
> > was way back in September 2014, some fourteen
> > months before the finding was finally
> disclosed."
> >
> > "Now as I (and others) have already pointed out
> on
> > several occasions in other threads, there has
> so
> > far also been a curious absence of data
> disclosed
> > on the temperature and plasma characteristics
> of
> > the “jets” (in particular the spectacular
> > outbursts observed during the July 29, August
> 12
> > and August 22 events). The only comment made in
> > the blog-post on the “extraordinarily
> bright”
> > August 22 event was that that the team was
> “busy
> > analyzing the data to understand the nature of
> > these events”, meaning that the collected
> data
> > was (and probably still is) literally
> > incomprehensible for them. When the extremely
> high
> > temperature and the extremely active plasma
> data
> > are at last published (probably several more
> > months in the future), it will be seen that in
> > that respect too, the team was “in denial”.
> It
> > may take a very long time, but we will
> ultimately
> > be told the truth about the real nature of
> 67P."
>
>
> Can you provide a link, please, to the specific
> blogs with those quotations?
>
> Edit: I found a link elsewhere:
>
> [url]http://news.discovery.com/space/rosettas-comet-spe[/url]
> ws-molecular-oxygen-surprise-151028.htm
>
> To be honest, I think you're over-exaggerating,
> and taking out of context the extent of the
> 'denial' you mention. It didn't last 'for many
> long months'. They were surprised at the data
> they were finding. Hardly surprising, given the
> 'first' that was Rosetta.
>
> [quote]“It is the most surprising discovery we
> have made so far in 67P,” said Rosetta scientist
> Kathrin Altwegg, with the Physics Institute and
> Center for Space and Habitability at the
> University of Bern in Germany.
> “The first time we really saw it I think we all
> went a little bit into denial because ... oxygen
> was not among the molecules suspected in a
> cometary coma,” Altwegg said. “All models show
> that molecular oxygen will react with the hydrogen
> and will no longer be present.”>
> [/quote]
>
> Why do you think scientists are supposed to get
> everything right first time? How do you think
> science progresses, if not from learning from new
> data and results? If everything remained static,
> astronomers would still be using the same model of
> the solar system that they did before the space
> age. Knowledge and information have increased by
> leaps and bounds since the 1950's, and will
> continue to do so, as old models are challenged
> with the availability of new data. Why is that so
> hard to admit?
>
>
> Carol

'They were surprised at the data they were finding' ... because ??

It didn't fit their model, not just because it was the first time they'd seen this type of data. The denial is inherent in the amount of time it took them to realize what they'd discovered, wrap their heads around it and were able to report on it.

Kathrin says it all in your quote.

> “The first time we really saw it I think we all
> went a little bit into denial because ... oxygen
> was not among the molecules suspected in a
> cometary coma,” Altwegg said. “All models show
> that molecular oxygen will react with the hydrogen
> and will no longer be present.”

Maybe they aren't the only ones in denial?

What might the response to considerably higher than expected temperatures within the jets be? More surprise and denial because it's the first time they see this data (in situ) or because it doesn't fit their model?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06-Nov-15 19:41 by Starbinder.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 2093 Laird Scranton 28-Oct-15 23:02
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 498 OCaptain 28-Oct-15 23:09
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 352 carolb 28-Oct-15 23:12
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 481 Laird Scranton 28-Oct-15 23:51
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 352 Laird Scranton 28-Oct-15 23:42
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 338 carolb 28-Oct-15 23:49
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 333 Laird Scranton 29-Oct-15 00:42
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 386 laughin 29-Oct-15 16:29
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 384 Starbinder 29-Oct-15 17:42
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 325 OCaptain 29-Oct-15 18:08
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 294 laughin 29-Oct-15 18:49
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 310 OCaptain 29-Oct-15 23:13
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 318 laughin 31-Oct-15 15:26
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 349 drrayeye 31-Oct-15 16:49
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 272 OCaptain 31-Oct-15 16:58
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 282 laughin 31-Oct-15 18:24
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 277 OCaptain 31-Oct-15 19:07
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 311 laughin 01-Nov-15 03:12
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 330 Laird Scranton 01-Nov-15 05:37
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 360 laughin 01-Nov-15 16:16
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 266 Laird Scranton 01-Nov-15 16:31
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 291 Aine 30-Oct-15 14:06
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 277 laughin 30-Oct-15 14:53
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 361 Aine 30-Oct-15 15:35
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 287 carolb 30-Oct-15 15:36
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 298 laughin 30-Oct-15 18:55
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 324 Laird Scranton 30-Oct-15 16:44
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 370 Aine 30-Oct-15 17:04
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 322 carolb 30-Oct-15 17:21
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 247 Laird Scranton 30-Oct-15 18:47
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 298 laughin 30-Oct-15 18:44
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 299 Laird Scranton 29-Oct-15 19:46
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 305 laughin 29-Oct-15 20:48
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 298 Laird Scranton 29-Oct-15 22:07
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 300 carolb 29-Oct-15 22:24
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 304 Starbinder 30-Oct-15 00:46
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 293 Laird Scranton 30-Oct-15 01:01
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 394 Aine 30-Oct-15 14:11
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 296 Laird Scranton 30-Oct-15 15:42
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 439 carolb 30-Oct-15 16:32
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 273 Laird Scranton 30-Oct-15 16:51
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 303 carolb 30-Oct-15 16:57
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 268 Laird Scranton 30-Oct-15 17:02
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 377 carolb 30-Oct-15 17:20
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 260 OCaptain 30-Oct-15 20:07
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 244 Laird Scranton 30-Oct-15 20:37
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 344 OCaptain 31-Oct-15 00:51
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 255 OCaptain 30-Oct-15 20:06
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 301 Laird Scranton 30-Oct-15 20:34
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 358 carolb 30-Oct-15 20:47
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 247 Laird Scranton 30-Oct-15 21:09
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 276 carolb 30-Oct-15 23:23
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 273 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 00:49
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 274 carolb 31-Oct-15 01:01
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 239 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 01:10
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 386 carolb 31-Oct-15 01:38
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 248 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 02:56
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 278 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 03:58
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 357 carolb 31-Oct-15 12:01
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 255 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 15:19
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 255 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 15:47
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 307 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 16:02
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 287 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 18:26
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 319 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 21:48
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 255 Laird Scranton 01-Nov-15 00:27
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 271 carolb 01-Nov-15 01:00
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 279 Laird Scranton 01-Nov-15 01:36
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 322 skakos 03-Nov-15 09:51
Conspiracy... 271 skakos 03-Nov-15 11:19
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 249 OCaptain 30-Oct-15 20:02
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 351 Laird Scranton 30-Oct-15 20:30
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 238 OCaptain 31-Oct-15 00:56
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 284 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 02:04
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 257 OCaptain 31-Oct-15 12:14
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 273 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 15:41
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 216 OCaptain 31-Oct-15 20:03
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 265 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 21:26
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 268 OCaptain 01-Nov-15 12:10
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 281 drrayeye 01-Nov-15 13:50
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 303 carolb 01-Nov-15 15:11
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 279 drrayeye 01-Nov-15 16:52
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 278 Laird Scranton 01-Nov-15 16:56
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 318 carolb 01-Nov-15 17:14
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 255 Laird Scranton 01-Nov-15 18:27
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 263 drrayeye 01-Nov-15 21:57
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 232 Laird Scranton 01-Nov-15 16:03
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 280 OCaptain 01-Nov-15 19:35
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 367 Laird Scranton 01-Nov-15 20:34
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 275 Starbinder 30-Oct-15 19:27
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 326 carolb 30-Oct-15 20:01
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 249 laughin 30-Oct-15 20:17
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 290 Starbinder 30-Oct-15 20:24
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 323 carolb 30-Oct-15 20:46
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 326 Starbinder 30-Oct-15 21:14
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 277 carolb 30-Oct-15 23:11
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 253 Starbinder 31-Oct-15 01:05
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 275 Starbinder 02-Nov-15 19:40
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 299 carolb 02-Nov-15 21:21
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 266 Starbinder 06-Nov-15 14:53
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 423 carolb 06-Nov-15 15:16
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 259 Starbinder 06-Nov-15 18:50
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 271 carolb 06-Nov-15 20:10
What about scientism? 310 drrayeye 07-Nov-15 08:19
Re: What about scientism? 293 carolb 07-Nov-15 12:59
Re: What about scientism? 335 OCaptain 07-Nov-15 13:55
Re: What about scientism? 395 carolb 07-Nov-15 17:37
Re: What about scientism? 304 drrayeye 07-Nov-15 19:55
"Blue sky thinking" 296 randompHactor 07-Nov-15 20:15
Re: What about scientism? 289 carolb 07-Nov-15 20:41
Re: What about scientism? 277 drrayeye 07-Nov-15 23:36
Re: What about scientism? 270 carolb 07-Nov-15 23:45
Re: What about scientism? 311 laughin 09-Nov-15 02:51
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 408 laughin 30-Oct-15 15:03
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 372 OCaptain 29-Oct-15 23:20
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 541 Laird Scranton 29-Oct-15 23:51
SUMMARY? 279 skakos 02-Nov-15 21:33
Mod Note > skakos – Switch View 302 Dr. Troglodyte 02-Nov-15 22:33
Re: SUMMARY? 391 Laird Scranton 02-Nov-15 23:22
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 400 Laird Scranton 29-Oct-15 19:32
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 254 Laird Scranton 02-Nov-15 16:53
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 382 drrayeye 02-Nov-15 19:52
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 217 Laird Scranton 02-Nov-15 21:02
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 335 Laird Scranton 03-Nov-15 14:44
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 226 drrayeye 03-Nov-15 16:09
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 268 OCaptain 03-Nov-15 18:32
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 263 Laird Scranton 03-Nov-15 18:46
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 406 laughin 03-Nov-15 19:28
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 238 laughin 03-Nov-15 19:02
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 286 Laird Scranton 03-Nov-15 21:02
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 258 Laird Scranton 03-Nov-15 04:58
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 284 Ratcho 03-Nov-15 06:18
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 250 Laird Scranton 03-Nov-15 14:30
Regarding myths... 261 skakos 03-Nov-15 11:46
Re: Regarding myths... 255 Laird Scranton 03-Nov-15 17:00
Re: off topic... 239 Ratcho 03-Nov-15 20:15
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 328 skakos 04-Nov-15 13:28
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 275 skakos 04-Nov-15 15:07
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 253 skakos 04-Nov-15 15:11
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 848 skakos 04-Nov-15 22:22
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 387 Laird Scranton 05-Nov-15 01:11
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 269 skakos 05-Nov-15 14:10
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 273 Laird Scranton 05-Nov-15 14:23
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 371 skakos 05-Nov-15 19:32
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 267 Laird Scranton 05-Nov-15 19:42
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 361 Laird Scranton 04-Nov-15 21:23
Cosmic Disconnect 283 laughin 06-Nov-15 15:00
Re: Cosmic Disconnect 237 OCaptain 07-Nov-15 13:49
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 445 skakos 16-Nov-15 12:46
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 354 OCaptain 16-Nov-15 13:54
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 399 skakos 16-Nov-15 15:36
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 459 OCaptain 17-Nov-15 01:23
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 392 skakos 18-Nov-15 18:32
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 402 Ratcho 18-Nov-15 18:45
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 345 OCaptain 19-Nov-15 00:49
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 425 skakos 19-Nov-15 07:24
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 568 skakos 27-Dec-15 22:04


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