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Quote

Eli:
It takes generations for a "race" to overcome systemic poverty which is doubly hard when property ownership is denied by the system in control. [grahamhancock.com]
Quote


Buck:
- "Property ownership is denied by the system in control." Expand and define, please.
[grahamhancock.com]

Quote

Eli:
"First you’ll need to acknowledge that the parameter I set (“from the start”) is “generations” long."


Buck 45 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> - I can't. I can acknowledge that you gave a
> list of historical incidents and examples but to
> qualify it as "generations?" I can't. This is
> what I mean by you expressing yourself and
> position in your first reply...
>


I did and you won't because the way my statement and examples were framed "from the start" doesn't allow you to pontificate and demand only current examples of endemic and/or systemic institutionalized racism.


> "No, what we learned is that you will attribute to
> others whatever position best allows you to
> pontificate endlessly about the self-perceived
> wisdom of your position."
>
> - Amazing how unanswered simple questions about
> one's actual position results in being labeled
> "pontificating" or as some sort of strawmaning the
> other's position.....
>
> "We learned that because regardless of numerous
> protestations and clarifications you continued to
> misrepresent my patently obvious position just to
> advantage yours."
>
> - Now now, don't assume. Again, repeating
> myself... all I asked was for clarifications so
> as to understand what the hell your position
> actually is.
>

Then start by acknowledging that "from the start" my time frame is "generations".

Just how many times will I need to object to your mischaracterization and/or clarify this time?


> "Sowell like these people"
>
> - Sowell is not like 'those people."
>
>
Quote

"We keep hearing that "black lives matter,"
> but they seem to matter only when that helps
> politicians to get votes, or when that slogan
> helps demagogues demonize the police."
Quote

We keep hearing that "black lives matter," but they seem to matter only when that helps politicians to get votes, or when that slogan helps demagogues demonize the police. The other 99% of black lives destroyed by people who are not police do not seem to attract nearly as much attention in the media.

What about black success? Does that matter? Apparently not so much.

We have heard a lot about black students failing to meet academic standards. So you might think that it would be front-page news when some whole ghetto schools not only meet, but exceed, the academic standards of schools in more upscale communities.


>
Quote

"if black lives really matter, as they
> should matter like all other lives"
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Ordinarily, it is not a good idea to base how you vote on just one issue. But if black lives really matter, as they should matter like all other lives, then it is hard to see any racial issue that matters as much as education.
The government could double the amount of money it spends on food stamps or triple the amount it spends on housing subsidies, and it will mean very little if the next generation of young blacks goes out into the world as adults without a decent education.


>
Quote

"Chief among those who generate this
> poisonous atmosphere are career race hustlers like
> Al Sharpton and racist institutions like the
> "Black Lives Matter" movement. All such demagogues
> need is a situation where there has been a
> confrontation where someone was white and someone
> else was black. The facts don't matter to
> them."
Quote

There is a ton of blame, more than enough to go around to the wide range of people and institutions that have contributed to these disasters. In addition to the murderers who have killed people they don’t even know, there are those who created the atmosphere of blind hatred in which such killers flourish.

Chief among those who generate this poisonous atmosphere are career race hustlers like Al Sharpton and racist institutions like the “Black Lives Matter” movement. All such demagogues need is a situation where there has been a confrontation where someone was white and someone else was black. The facts don’t matter to them.


> "the role race plays every day in America."
>
> - Maybe for you but not me. Quantity of one's
> melanin tells we nothing about who you are. That
> it does for you is, _______.
>

Are you a black American Buck?
That is the topic right?


> "Not that we should accept responsibility for the
> past but instead to simply acknowledge the role
> the past plays in the present."
>
> - Right. And is "endemic, institutional racism"
> still present? Present in Black run cities with
> Black Police Commissioners, Captains, Chiefs,
> Prosecutors, Judges, DA's, Mayors, Governors,
> Senators (State and Federal)??????
>


Uh, yes. Because case in point, your example doesn't exist.


> " you insist on only considering the present and
> assume since a black man argues the black
> community needs to save itself your indifference
> is justified."
>
> - I'm not 'indifferent' in the slightest. What
> was that about 'attributing to others whatever
> position best allows you to pontificate
> endlessly?' Riiiight. I've been for and active
> on getting 2A back into Black communities for
> years and for getting them off the Democratic
> plantation. Black communities are just like
> disasters we see in DEM/FEMA i.e. local ones.
> Long after the Feds and everyone outta town
> leaves, it's on the locals to live there. If they
> don't sort their stuff for themselves, then it'll
> go back to the way it was before once the Feds or
> whomever leaves. That is fact.
>


Why are black communities "just like disasters we see in DEM/FEMA"?


> "Your argument here amounts to a -what have we
> done lately to oppress the black community"
>
> - Not entirely accurate but that is an avenue
> when one uses historical examples from 50 to 200
> years in the past to support their claim or
> support of "endemic, institutional racism."
>
> "Sorry but you don’t get to define the term
> systemic institutionalized racism as applied to
> race relations in America so narrowly nor may you
> insist I satisfy such a meaningless question."
>
> - Oh, so now it's "systemic?" That's even more
> ridiculous!!! How many times, eli, do I have to
> repeat to you that I was asking about how Cappy
> and by your injection, you, are defining those
> words, that term because by the basic definition
> (that you provided) and through recent history
> (less than 50 years ago) that term is clearly not
> applicable.

Probably because Brian is being more specific than me and is focusing on the race that is suffering the institutionalized racism while I innately focus on the extent that the institution has supported racism against many races. Rather a small distinction to qualify for such a dickish comment but Buck’s gotta be Buck.

> I know it sounds intelligent but
> using it for something today is just stupid.

Well good then. As I have provided through examples and am now clarifying for you AGAIN I am defining it as something that happened over many generations -including this one- that was enforced by the United States government against racial groups of Americans that has had a lasting effect on them socially, economically and culturally.

I realize that’s not the conversation you wish to have but I’m not going to bullied into adopting the position you need.

Maybe someone else will come along and polish your apples for you.

Eli

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Subject Views Written By Posted
George Floyd 1192 Archaic 29-May-20 10:05
Re: George Floyd 143 WhoWeird 29-May-20 11:47
Re: George Floyd 135 Archaic 29-May-20 11:50
Re: George Floyd 127 WhoWeird 29-May-20 12:06
Re: George Floyd 130 Archaic 29-May-20 12:17
Re: George Floyd 127 WhoWeird 29-May-20 12:24
Re: George Floyd 135 solaremp 29-May-20 14:45
Re: George Floyd 124 WhoWeird 29-May-20 17:03
Warning: TDS Rage Post Below, Proceed With Caution. 127 WhoWeird 29-May-20 19:37
Re: Warning: TDS Rage Post Below, Proceed With Caution. 132 Aine 29-May-20 21:42
Re: Warning: TDS Rage Post Below, Proceed With Caution. 130 WhoWeird 29-May-20 22:03
Re: Warning: TDS Rage Post Below, Proceed With Caution. 123 Aine 29-May-20 22:15
Re: Warning: TDS Rage Post Below, Proceed With Caution. 146 Lee McGiffen 30-May-20 07:21
I agree with you 162 Deep1 29-May-20 13:13
Re: I agree with you 128 Archaic 29-May-20 15:20
Re: I agree with you 130 eli stills 29-May-20 19:58
Re: I agree with you 129 Archaic 29-May-20 21:28
Re: George Floyd 138 PB Bytes 29-May-20 15:02
Re: George Floyd 134 Archaic 29-May-20 16:54
Re: George Floyd 130 PB Bytes 29-May-20 17:21
Re: George Floyd 121 OCaptain 29-May-20 17:43
Re: George Floyd 130 Aine 29-May-20 21:46
Re: George Floyd 127 Archaic 29-May-20 22:43
Re: George Floyd 121 Aine 30-May-20 00:35
Re: George Floyd 129 Archaic 30-May-20 03:14
Re: George Floyd 128 Aine 31-May-20 00:12
Re: George Floyd 118 drrayeye 31-May-20 04:08
Re: George Floyd 55 OCaptain 22-Sep-20 17:46
Re: George Floyd 93 Warwick 22-Sep-20 17:50
Re: George Floyd 80 Archaic 27-Sep-20 00:43
Re: George Floyd 78 Warwick 27-Sep-20 18:41
Re: George Floyd 120 Aine 29-May-20 21:48
2 tragedies 138 Buck 45 29-May-20 20:12
Re: 2 tragedies 125 WhoWeird 29-May-20 20:17
Re: 2 tragedies 157 Aine 29-May-20 21:43
Re: 2 tragedies 114 WhoWeird 29-May-20 21:56
Re: 2 tragedies 125 Aine 29-May-20 22:14
Re: 2 tragedies 118 WhoWeird 29-May-20 22:22
Re: 2 tragedies 128 Archaic 30-May-20 03:50
Re: 2 tragedies 122 WhoWeird 30-May-20 04:47
2 issues 128 Buck 45 30-May-20 06:09
Re: 2 issues 125 WhoWeird 30-May-20 06:13
Re: George Floyd 119 muppedo 30-May-20 00:39
Re: George Floyd 121 Archaic 30-May-20 03:29
Is This Heiping? 125 WhoWeird 30-May-20 14:51
Re: Is This Heiping? 120 Archaic 30-May-20 16:03
Re: Is This Heiping? 105 WhoWeird 30-May-20 16:06
Re: Is This Heiping? 118 Archaic 30-May-20 16:14
Re: Is This Heiping? 121 WhoWeird 30-May-20 16:25
Re: Is This Heiping? 112 eli stills 30-May-20 18:29
Re: Is This Heiping? 119 WhoWeird 30-May-20 19:45
Re: Is This Heiping? 118 drrayeye 30-May-20 20:37
Re: Is This Heiping? 110 WhoWeird 30-May-20 20:56
Re: Is This Heiping? 128 muppedo 30-May-20 21:17
Re: Is This Heiping? 111 drrayeye 30-May-20 21:36
Re: Is This Heiping? 143 muppedo 30-May-20 22:08
Re: Is This Heiping? 127 Aine 30-May-20 23:58
Re: Is This Heiping? 134 Archaic 31-May-20 06:57
Re: Is This Heiping? 112 eli stills 30-May-20 22:40
Putting It Into Perspective 116 adequatedane 30-May-20 14:58
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 113 WhoWeird 30-May-20 15:10
How's It Going in Stupid Land from Scooby 126 adequatedane 31-May-20 14:02
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 123 OCaptain 30-May-20 15:15
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 119 eli stills 30-May-20 18:35
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 165 solaremp 31-May-20 14:11
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 121 Eddie Larry 31-May-20 15:08
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 113 Archaic 02-Jun-20 09:36
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 138 adequatedane 31-May-20 14:01
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 151 WhoWeird 31-May-20 15:59
I Must Believe the Narrative by the Village Idiot 130 adequatedane 31-May-20 17:09
Re: I Must Believe the Narrative by the Village Idiot 150 WhoWeird 31-May-20 17:13
Re: I Must Believe the Narrative by the Village Idiot 140 Audrey 31-May-20 18:42
You Are A Scared little Boy 140 adequatedane 01-Jun-20 03:39
Re: You Are A Scared little Boy 118 WhoWeird 01-Jun-20 06:59
Re: You Are A Scared little Boy from Scooby 109 adequatedane 01-Jun-20 13:28
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 134 Audrey 31-May-20 18:41
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 116 Archaic 02-Jun-20 09:37
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 116 adequatedane 02-Jun-20 12:50
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 125 Archaic 02-Jun-20 13:23
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 126 adequatedane 03-Jun-20 14:09
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 215 WhoWeird 03-Jun-20 14:24
From Scooby 101 adequatedane 04-Jun-20 12:13
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 114 muppedo 03-Jun-20 23:40
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 118 adequatedane 04-Jun-20 12:11
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 144 OCaptain 04-Jun-20 12:16
"Institutional Racism" 151 Buck 45 04-Jun-20 20:40
Seriously? 123 eli stills 04-Jun-20 20:56
How many times will I have to repeat myself?! :D 134 Buck 45 04-Jun-20 21:23
Waikiki 139 drrayeye 04-Jun-20 21:28
Plz, moar racism 124 Buck 45 04-Jun-20 21:35
Institutionalized racism and Hawaii 104 drrayeye 04-Jun-20 22:12
Still running your mouth... 126 Buck 45 04-Jun-20 22:20
Does repeating yourself somehow clarify your point? 131 eli stills 04-Jun-20 21:41
Re: Does repeating yourself somehow clarify your point? 123 Aine 04-Jun-20 21:46
Re: Does repeating yourself somehow clarify your point? 105 Archaic 04-Jun-20 21:54
Re: Does repeating yourself somehow clarify your point? 122 WhoWeird 04-Jun-20 21:55
Re: Does repeating yourself somehow clarify your point? 102 OCaptain 05-Jun-20 00:17
Re: Does repeating yourself somehow clarify your point? 100 Aine 05-Jun-20 00:38
I only repeat because you don't answer 109 Buck 45 04-Jun-20 22:04
Hopelessly bad question 111 drrayeye 04-Jun-20 22:22
Hopelessly bad post 102 Buck 45 04-Jun-20 23:15
Not a Hawaiian Trumper concept 97 drrayeye 04-Jun-20 23:21
Re: I only repeat because you don't answer 126 eli stills 04-Jun-20 22:52
Round-n-round... 122 Buck 45 04-Jun-20 23:14
Sorry! Buck’s right again, Buck’s some kind of friggin genius, can’t believe I ever resisted Buck’s wisdom or dared challenge his depthless knowledge of all things. 141 eli stills 05-Jun-20 01:01
Sorry people don't feel that way about you 127 Buck 45 05-Jun-20 02:41
I don't need someone to polish my apples Buck 150 eli stills 05-Jun-20 04:33
But you need someone to read to you... 113 Buck 45 05-Jun-20 06:13
Re: But you need someone to read to you... 137 eli stills 05-Jun-20 15:19
Separate? Sure. Together? Can't. 122 Buck 45 05-Jun-20 16:36
Still lost 106 drrayeye 05-Jun-20 18:36
Re: Still lost 111 Audrey 05-Jun-20 20:58
Re: Separate? Sure. Together? Can't. 210 eli stills 05-Jun-20 19:03
You forgot to add BOLD to your SHOUTS! :D 123 Buck 45 05-Jun-20 20:44
Re: Separate? Sure. Together? Can't. 111 Audrey 05-Jun-20 22:06
Re: Round-n-round... 81 OCaptain 22-Sep-20 17:30
3 months and still no answer 66 Buck 45 23-Sep-20 01:25
Re: 3 months and still no answer 70 eli stills 23-Sep-20 02:13
Easy 79 Buck 45 23-Sep-20 03:08
Re: Easy 86 eli stills 23-Sep-20 03:37
Slavery of the Mind 74 Buck 45 23-Sep-20 21:27
Re: Slavery of the Mind 70 muppedo 23-Sep-20 22:41
It's all the UK's fault :D 60 Buck 45 24-Sep-20 02:04
Re: Slavery of the Mind 63 eli stills 24-Sep-20 00:56
I agree; Dems are racist, as an institution 72 Buck 45 24-Sep-20 01:16
Re: I agree; Dems are racist, as an institution 84 eli stills 24-Sep-20 02:45
But you reject my examples? 71 Buck 45 24-Sep-20 23:53
Re: But you reject my examples? 49 eli stills 25-Sep-20 02:06
eli-go-round 67 Buck 45 25-Sep-20 02:34
Re: eli-go-round 74 eli stills 25-Sep-20 03:52
Your evidence is my evidence that you reject... 54 Buck 45 25-Sep-20 19:15
Re: Your evidence is my evidence that you reject... 46 eli stills 25-Sep-20 21:24
:( 77 Buck 45 25-Sep-20 22:03
Re: Your evidence is my evidence that you reject... 75 OCaptain 26-Sep-20 11:44
"His white mentor?" :D 55 Buck 45 27-Sep-20 00:39
Smoke blowing, hand waving, Gish galloping Trumper Apologetics 74 drrayeye 23-Sep-20 04:46
Terrible Spin and Obvious lack of Knowledge with a touch of deflection. 75 adequatedane 23-Sep-20 13:14
George Floyd 71 drrayeye 23-Sep-20 19:06
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 96 adequatedane 05-Jun-20 13:18
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 106 Archaic 04-Jun-20 17:24
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 111 Aine 03-Jun-20 14:18
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 179 Nolondil 03-Jun-20 15:15
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 102 Audrey 04-Jun-20 01:24
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 96 Aine 04-Jun-20 01:29
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 90 WhoWeird 04-Jun-20 01:32
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 116 Archaic 04-Jun-20 17:26
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 111 Aine 04-Jun-20 18:23
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 112 Archaic 04-Jun-20 18:33
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 121 WhoWeird 04-Jun-20 18:39
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 120 Archaic 04-Jun-20 20:41
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 102 WhoWeird 04-Jun-20 21:08
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 114 WhoWeird 04-Jun-20 22:25
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 105 Aine 04-Jun-20 18:43
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 100 Archaic 04-Jun-20 20:44
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 100 eli stills 04-Jun-20 21:04
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 119 Archaic 04-Jun-20 21:14
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 93 eli stills 04-Jun-20 21:29
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 131 Archaic 04-Jun-20 21:58
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 88 eli stills 04-Jun-20 23:03
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 121 WhoWeird 04-Jun-20 21:09
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 125 Archaic 04-Jun-20 21:15
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 114 WhoWeird 04-Jun-20 21:34
Perspective 111 Warwick 04-Jun-20 18:45
Re: Perspective 96 Aine 04-Jun-20 19:26
Re: Perspective 90 Warwick 04-Jun-20 20:04
Re: Perspective 115 WhoWeird 04-Jun-20 21:11
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 95 adequatedane 04-Jun-20 12:20
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 152 Archaic 04-Jun-20 17:27
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 101 eli stills 04-Jun-20 18:12
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 145 Archaic 04-Jun-20 18:36
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 91 eli stills 04-Jun-20 20:32
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 112 adequatedane 05-Jun-20 13:34
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 97 OCaptain 05-Jun-20 16:00
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 94 WhoWeird 05-Jun-20 16:11
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 93 Aine 05-Jun-20 16:13
Re: Putting It Into Perspective 108 WhoWeird 05-Jun-20 17:37
Deflection 85 adequatedane 06-Jun-20 12:35
Thanks 149 drrayeye 31-May-20 15:32
Very good post 126 greengirl5 01-Jun-20 06:46
Re: Very good post 101 WhoWeird 01-Jun-20 06:57
Re: George Floyd 108 adequatedane 01-Jun-20 16:29
Re: George Floyd 109 WhoWeird 01-Jun-20 20:30
Hi Stupid 95 adequatedane 04-Jun-20 12:22
Re: George Floyd 100 Archaic 02-Jun-20 09:32
Re: George Floyd 97 WhoWeird 02-Jun-20 19:02
Re: George Floyd 99 adequatedane 04-Jun-20 13:13
Re: George Floyd 140 WhoWeird 04-Jun-20 14:06
Re: George Floyd 128 eli stills 04-Jun-20 16:12
Re: George Floyd 99 WhoWeird 04-Jun-20 16:22
Re: George Floyd 98 Aine 04-Jun-20 16:37
Re: George Floyd 109 eli stills 04-Jun-20 18:13
Re: George Floyd 88 OCaptain 04-Jun-20 23:44
Re: Freedom in Tonga 120 molder 05-Jun-20 11:49
Good points 175 drrayeye 04-Jun-20 17:13
Restraint, respect 99 drrayeye 01-Jun-20 17:36
Re: Restraint, respect 101 Aine 01-Jun-20 23:27
Re: Restraint, respect 108 WhoWeird 01-Jun-20 23:30
Re: Restraint, respect 100 Aine 02-Jun-20 01:47
Re: Restraint, respect 109 WhoWeird 02-Jun-20 02:07
Re: Restraint, respect 108 Lee McGiffen 05-Jun-20 07:50
Re: Restraint, respect 100 Archaic 02-Jun-20 09:33
Re: George Floyd 101 WhoWeird 04-Jun-20 22:22
The 4 cops 100 Race Jackson 05-Jun-20 03:04
Re: The 4 cops 93 eli stills 05-Jun-20 04:49
Re: The 4 cops 86 adequatedane 05-Jun-20 13:16
Full Autopsy Released 118 adequatedane 05-Jun-20 14:09
Re: Full Autopsy Released 138 Jergat 05-Jun-20 14:23
Re: Full Autopsy Released 93 adequatedane 06-Jun-20 12:39
Re: Full Autopsy Released 104 WhoWeird 05-Jun-20 14:34
Deflection 82 adequatedane 06-Jun-20 12:40
Re: Full Autopsy Released 141 OCaptain 05-Jun-20 16:15
Re: Full Autopsy Released 81 eli stills 05-Jun-20 19:10
Re: Full Autopsy Released 86 adequatedane 06-Jun-20 12:50
Re: Full Autopsy Released 85 OCaptain 06-Jun-20 13:41
So Stupid and Useless from Scooby 82 adequatedane 07-Jun-20 13:40
Re: Full Autopsy Released 112 Audrey 05-Jun-20 20:33
Re: Full Autopsy Released 93 Eddie Larry 05-Jun-20 22:29
Re: Full Autopsy Released 86 Audrey 06-Jun-20 00:20
Re: Full Autopsy Released 87 Eddie Larry 06-Jun-20 00:48
Re: Full Autopsy Released 81 adequatedane 06-Jun-20 14:45
Re: Full Autopsy Released 86 WhoWeird 06-Jun-20 15:53
So Stupid from Scooby 83 adequatedane 06-Jun-20 22:43
Re: Full Autopsy Released 98 eli stills 06-Jun-20 16:43
Re: Full Autopsy Released 88 adequatedane 06-Jun-20 22:51
Re: Full Autopsy Released 87 muppedo 06-Jun-20 23:06
Re: Full Autopsy Released 101 eli stills 07-Jun-20 01:09
Re: Full Autopsy Released 102 adequatedane 07-Jun-20 14:00
Re: Full Autopsy Released 89 Audrey 06-Jun-20 00:18
Re: Full Autopsy Released 90 WhoWeird 06-Jun-20 00:44
Re: Full Autopsy Released 86 Eddie Larry 06-Jun-20 00:47
Re: Full Autopsy Released 90 Audrey 06-Jun-20 00:58
Re: Full Autopsy Released 100 adequatedane 06-Jun-20 22:55
Re: Full Autopsy Released 83 muppedo 06-Jun-20 23:55
Re: Full Autopsy Released 87 OCaptain 07-Jun-20 00:36
Re: George Floyd 103 Spiros 06-Jun-20 23:25
Re: George Floyd 66 OCaptain 22-Sep-20 17:50


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