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MDaines Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Truth may seem, but cannot be:
> Beauty brag, but 'tis not she;
> Truth and beauty buried be.
>
> To this urn let those repair
> That are either true or fair
> For these dead birds sigh a prayer.
>
> (Final verses of The Phoenix and the Turtle,
> William Shakespeare)
>
> Whoever wrote this was lamenting the lost memory
> of the alchemical teachings of Hermes.
>
> Let the priest in surplice white,
> That defunctive music can,
> Be the death-divining swan,
> Lest the requiem lack his right.
>
> Quatrain no.4 refers to the constellation of
> Cygnus. Also see the Conference of the Birds,
> another much earlier reference to the birds of
> Hermeticism. I notice, after writing this, that
> the link between the two poems has been made
> before. I have already suggested elsewhere that
> the core text and message of the Conference of the
> Birds, also known as Bird Parliament, existed long
> before it was adapted by Persian poet Attar.
>
> The turtle is well attested as the foundation of
> the pillar that supports our world. Truth is of
> the essence. When it’s lost, all is lost.
>
> Madeleine

I know, on the surface at least, the "Turtle" is a turtle-dove not a shelled 'un. But double and triple intended interpretations are more the norm than the exception in these works.

This poems authorship, composition and meaning are widely debated. Can't say that I have an opinion myself

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Subject Views Written By Posted
The Bard 6267 seanoffshotgun 10-Nov-18 16:46
Re: The Bard 713 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 21:08
Re: The Bard 678 seanoffshotgun 10-Nov-18 23:12
Re: The Bard 632 Eddie Larry 11-Nov-18 04:46
Re: The Bard 682 Reagent 19-Nov-18 09:57
Re: The Bard 619 seanoffshotgun 20-Nov-18 23:11
Re: The Bard 562 seanoffshotgun 18-Jan-19 21:19
Re: The Bard 426 seanoffshotgun 23-Mar-19 00:35
Re: The Bard 423 seanoffshotgun 23-Mar-19 00:56
Re: The Bard 399 Eddie Larry 23-Mar-19 15:35
Re: The Bard 446 seanoffshotgun 23-Mar-19 21:14
Re: The Bard 378 rulebook54 29-Jun-19 17:05
Re: The Bard 340 seanoffshotgun 14-Jul-19 00:40
Re: The Bard 252 rulebook54 21-Oct-19 16:15
Re: The Bard 260 Glass Jigsaw 21-Oct-19 18:59
Re: The Bard 259 Eddie Larry 21-Oct-19 20:32
Re: The Bard 259 seanoffshotgun 21-Oct-19 20:45
Re: The Bard 240 Glass Jigsaw 22-Oct-19 00:50
Re: The Bard 252 Eddie Larry 22-Oct-19 01:53
Re: The Bard 242 Glass Jigsaw 23-Oct-19 00:29
Re: The Bard 250 seanoffshotgun 23-Oct-19 01:16
Re: The Bard 251 Glass Jigsaw 23-Oct-19 01:31
Re: The Bard 234 seanoffshotgun 24-Oct-19 23:38
Re: The Bard 255 seanoffshotgun 22-Oct-19 03:06
Re: The Bard 228 Glass Jigsaw 23-Oct-19 02:36
Re: The Bard 244 seanoffshotgun 23-Oct-19 02:45
Re: The Bard 259 Eddie Larry 21-Oct-19 21:12
Re: The Bard 235 Glass Jigsaw 22-Oct-19 00:31
Re: The Bard 243 seanoffshotgun 22-Oct-19 02:52
Re: The Bard 249 Glass Jigsaw 23-Oct-19 00:41
Re: The Bard 239 seanoffshotgun 23-Oct-19 01:39
Re: The Bard 240 Glass Jigsaw 23-Oct-19 02:28
Re: The Bard 243 seanoffshotgun 23-Oct-19 02:38
Re: The Bard 260 seanoffshotgun 22-Oct-19 03:20
Re: The Bard 359 seanoffshotgun 14-Jul-19 00:48
Re: The Bard 243 Glass Jigsaw 23-Oct-19 00:17
Re: The Bard 237 seanoffshotgun 23-Oct-19 00:37
Re: The Bard 292 CJD1965 29-Aug-19 23:21
Re: The Bard 285 seanoffshotgun 30-Aug-19 23:56
Re: The Bard 283 CJD1965 31-Aug-19 01:24
Re: The Bard 296 seanoffshotgun 31-Aug-19 01:52
Re: The Bard 310 seanoffshotgun 31-Aug-19 02:41
Re: The Bard 286 Glass Jigsaw 06-Sep-19 11:31
Re: The Bard 293 seanoffshotgun 07-Sep-19 03:10
Re: The Bard 277 seanoffshotgun 16-Sep-19 02:30
Re: The Bard 278 Broker 18-Sep-19 22:07
Re: The Bard 270 seanoffshotgun 18-Sep-19 23:29
Re: The Bard 277 Eddie Larry 20-Sep-19 14:48
Re: The Bard 257 seanoffshotgun 20-Sep-19 20:29
Re: The Bard 282 Eddie Larry 20-Sep-19 22:46
Re: The Bard 256 seanoffshotgun 21-Sep-19 01:04
Re: The Bard 270 Eddie Larry 21-Sep-19 04:12
Re: The Bard 265 Glass Jigsaw 21-Sep-19 21:10
Re: The Bard 254 Eddie Larry 22-Sep-19 03:56
Re: The Bard 259 Glass Jigsaw 22-Sep-19 14:44
Re: The Bard 249 Eddie Larry 22-Sep-19 15:20
Re: The Bard 260 Glass Jigsaw 22-Sep-19 17:24
Re: The Bard 255 seanoffshotgun 23-Sep-19 03:48
Re: The Bard 275 MDaines 23-Sep-19 10:40
Re: The Bard 259 Broker 24-Sep-19 00:10
Re: The Bard 257 MDaines 24-Sep-19 16:32
Re: The Bard 256 Glass Jigsaw 24-Sep-19 00:15
Re: The Bard 269 MDaines 24-Sep-19 09:06
Re: The Bard 244 Glass Jigsaw 25-Sep-19 12:59
Re: The Bard 243 Glass Jigsaw 25-Sep-19 13:03
Re: The Bard 248 seanoffshotgun 25-Sep-19 19:25
Re: The Bard 248 Broker 23-Sep-19 23:51
Re: The Bard 285 seanoffshotgun 24-Sep-19 01:09
Re: The Bard 264 seanoffshotgun 24-Sep-19 01:22
Re: The Bard 232 CJD1965 17-Oct-19 18:50
Re: The Bard 247 seanoffshotgun 17-Oct-19 20:09
Re: The Bard 236 seanoffshotgun 17-Oct-19 20:14
Tarot in Shakespeare 253 seanoffshotgun 25-Sep-19 19:49
Re: Tarot in Shakespeare 260 Glass Jigsaw 26-Sep-19 00:12
Re: Tarot in Shakespeare 281 seanoffshotgun 26-Sep-19 01:06
Re: Tarot in Shakespeare 268 Glass Jigsaw 27-Sep-19 00:48
The Two of Sumerian Source 260 MDaines 27-Sep-19 08:17
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 252 Glass Jigsaw 27-Sep-19 11:21
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 268 MDaines 27-Sep-19 12:54
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 263 seanoffshotgun 27-Sep-19 20:14
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 252 Glass Jigsaw 28-Sep-19 18:32
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 265 seanoffshotgun 28-Sep-19 23:03
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 258 Glass Jigsaw 29-Sep-19 19:58
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 268 seanoffshotgun 30-Sep-19 08:31
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 241 Glass Jigsaw 30-Sep-19 13:45
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 262 seanoffshotgun 01-Oct-19 22:52
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 248 Glass Jigsaw 02-Oct-19 14:37
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 256 seanoffshotgun 02-Oct-19 19:53
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 246 Glass Jigsaw 03-Oct-19 00:13
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 252 seanoffshotgun 03-Oct-19 05:48
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 257 Glass Jigsaw 04-Oct-19 14:59
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 253 seanoffshotgun 08-Oct-19 22:04
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 252 Glass Jigsaw 09-Oct-19 19:45
Rennes le Chateau and Bains mysteries, hoaxes, context 254 Edmond 15-Oct-19 11:53
Re: Rennes le Chateau and Bains mysteries, hoaxes, context 252 Glass Jigsaw 16-Oct-19 00:31
Re: Rennes le Chateau and Bains mysteries, hoaxes, context 273 Edmond 16-Oct-19 06:22
Re: Rennes le Chateau and Bains mysteries, hoaxes, context 247 seanoffshotgun 16-Oct-19 22:56
Re: Rennes le Chateau and Bains mysteries, hoaxes, context 257 Edmond 18-Oct-19 17:02
Re: Rennes le Chateau and Bains mysteries, hoaxes, context 240 seanoffshotgun 18-Oct-19 19:14
Re: Mystery links challenge anthropology 244 Edmond 22-Oct-19 07:03
Re: Mystery links challenge anthropology 244 seanoffshotgun 22-Oct-19 07:17
Re: Mystery links challenge anthropology 244 Edmond 23-Oct-19 18:10
Re: Mystery links challenge anthropology 241 Glass Jigsaw 23-Oct-19 19:17
Re: Mystery links challenge anthropology 234 seanoffshotgun 24-Oct-19 23:48
Re: Mystery links challenge anthropology 241 Edmond 25-Oct-19 16:24
Re: Mystery links challenge anthropology 246 Glass Jigsaw 25-Oct-19 18:53
The Four Ts of Shakespeare’s Epitaph are Hermetic 272 MDaines 08-Oct-19 07:56
Re: The Four Ts of Shakespeare’s Epitaph are Hermetic 257 seanoffshotgun 08-Oct-19 21:55
Re: Four Ts of Shakespeare’s Epitaph 273 MDaines 10-Oct-19 07:44
Re: Four Ts of Shakespeare’s Epitaph 248 Glass Jigsaw 10-Oct-19 16:52
Re: Four Ts of Shakespeare’s Epitaph 252 seanoffshotgun 11-Oct-19 19:08
Re: Four Ts of Shakespeare’s Epitaph 261 Glass Jigsaw 12-Oct-19 16:42
Re: Four Ts of Shakespeare’s Epitaph 257 seanoffshotgun 11-Oct-19 19:04
The Will of William 242 MDaines 23-Oct-19 09:07
Re: The Will of William 242 Glass Jigsaw 23-Oct-19 12:57
The Phoenix and the Turtle 268 MDaines 15-Oct-19 10:26
Re: The Phoenix and the Turtle 251 Glass Jigsaw 16-Oct-19 12:17
Re: The Phoenix and the Turtle 253 seanoffshotgun 16-Oct-19 23:09
New candidate 260 seanoffshotgun 21-Oct-19 21:11
Re: New candidate 252 seanoffshotgun 22-Oct-19 03:35
Re: New candidate 263 seanoffshotgun 22-Oct-19 03:45
Re: New candidate 250 Glass Jigsaw 22-Oct-19 14:50
Re: New candidate 237 seanoffshotgun 23-Oct-19 01:25
Re: New candidate 242 seanoffshotgun 23-Oct-19 01:28
Re: New candidate 234 Glass Jigsaw 23-Oct-19 13:31
Re: New candidate 227 seanoffshotgun 25-Oct-19 00:04
Re: New candidate 228 Glass Jigsaw 25-Oct-19 01:28
Re: New candidate 229 seanoffshotgun 25-Oct-19 01:35
Re: New candidate 240 Glass Jigsaw 25-Oct-19 01:47
Re: New candidate 235 seanoffshotgun 25-Oct-19 01:56
Re: New candidate 233 Glass Jigsaw 25-Oct-19 02:26
Re: The Bard 240 Eddie Larry 29-Oct-19 18:18
Re: The Bard 229 Glass Jigsaw 29-Oct-19 18:50
Re: The Bard 225 Eddie Larry 29-Oct-19 20:30
Re: The Bard 232 seanoffshotgun 29-Oct-19 21:19
Re: The Bard 237 Eddie Larry 29-Oct-19 22:39
Re: The Bard 230 seanoffshotgun 29-Oct-19 23:15
Re: The Bard 239 Glass Jigsaw 30-Oct-19 01:43
Re: The Bard 234 Eddie Larry 30-Oct-19 02:05
Re: The Bard 231 Glass Jigsaw 30-Oct-19 02:18
Re: The Bard 235 seanoffshotgun 30-Oct-19 02:53
Re: The Bard 226 Glass Jigsaw 30-Oct-19 13:47
Re: The Bard 231 seanoffshotgun 31-Oct-19 00:30
Re: The Bard 229 Eddie Larry 31-Oct-19 04:22
Re: The Bard 226 seanoffshotgun 31-Oct-19 18:48
Re: The Bard 223 Glass Jigsaw 01-Nov-19 00:26
The Heresy of Hermeticism 231 MDaines 31-Oct-19 08:32
Re: The Heresy of Hermeticism 227 seanoffshotgun 31-Oct-19 19:12
Re: The Heresy of Hermeticism 230 Glass Jigsaw 01-Nov-19 00:44
Re: The Heresy of Hermeticism 237 seanoffshotgun 01-Nov-19 01:11
Re: The Heresy of Hermeticism 228 Glass Jigsaw 01-Nov-19 14:10
Re: The Heresy of Hermeticism 222 seanoffshotgun 01-Nov-19 20:49
Re: The Heresy of Hermeticism 223 Glass Jigsaw 02-Nov-19 01:41
Re: The Bard 247 Glass Jigsaw 30-Oct-19 01:34
Re: The Bard 248 seanoffshotgun 30-Oct-19 07:10
Re: The Bard 240 seanoffshotgun 01-Nov-19 00:16
The Spy theory 234 seanoffshotgun 05-Nov-19 00:57
Re: The Spy theory 217 Glass Jigsaw 06-Nov-19 19:05
Re: The Spy theory 232 seanoffshotgun 07-Nov-19 05:55
Re: The Spy theory 216 Glass Jigsaw 07-Nov-19 23:32
Re: The Spy theory 211 seanoffshotgun 08-Nov-19 00:28
Re: The Spy theory 218 seanoffshotgun 08-Nov-19 00:40
Re: The Spy theory 220 Glass Jigsaw 08-Nov-19 01:25
Re: The Spy theory 227 seanoffshotgun 08-Nov-19 06:03
Re: The Spy theory 219 Glass Jigsaw 08-Nov-19 21:16
Re: The Spy theory 228 seanoffshotgun 08-Nov-19 21:36
The Bad Quarto of Hamlet 229 MDaines 09-Nov-19 09:17
Re: The Bad Quarto of Hamlet 223 seanoffshotgun 09-Nov-19 22:56
THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 226 MDaines 11-Nov-19 10:29
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 214 Glass Jigsaw 11-Nov-19 14:55
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 216 seanoffshotgun 11-Nov-19 16:22
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 215 Glass Jigsaw 11-Nov-19 18:12
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 213 seanoffshotgun 12-Nov-19 13:59
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 214 Glass Jigsaw 12-Nov-19 14:14
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 224 seanoffshotgun 12-Nov-19 14:49
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 226 Glass Jigsaw 12-Nov-19 17:17
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 219 seanoffshotgun 13-Nov-19 06:52
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 213 Glass Jigsaw 13-Nov-19 13:15
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 221 seanoffshotgun 14-Nov-19 08:13
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 223 Glass Jigsaw 14-Nov-19 13:34
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 216 seanoffshotgun 15-Nov-19 07:28
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 222 Glass Jigsaw 15-Nov-19 16:45
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 212 seanoffshotgun 15-Nov-19 17:00
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 231 Glass Jigsaw 15-Nov-19 17:21
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 218 Glass Jigsaw 18-Nov-19 02:03
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 206 seanoffshotgun 19-Nov-19 07:00
Re: The Spy theory 228 Glass Jigsaw 11-Nov-19 00:42
Re: The Spy theory 220 seanoffshotgun 08-Nov-19 21:41
Re: The Spy theory 215 Glass Jigsaw 08-Nov-19 21:55
Re: The Spy theory 210 Glass Jigsaw 08-Nov-19 22:12
Re: The Spy theory 220 seanoffshotgun 09-Nov-19 01:49
Re: The Spy theory 230 seanoffshotgun 09-Nov-19 02:02
Re: The Spy theory 241 Glass Jigsaw 09-Nov-19 03:17
Re: The Spy theory 239 seanoffshotgun 09-Nov-19 23:05
John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 199 Dr. Troglodyte 23-Nov-19 23:09
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 196 seanoffshotgun 24-Nov-19 03:24
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 205 seanoffshotgun 24-Nov-19 03:28
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 195 Dr. Troglodyte 24-Nov-19 17:01
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 196 seanoffshotgun 24-Nov-19 17:25
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 230 Glass Jigsaw 25-Nov-19 01:57
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 198 seanoffshotgun 26-Nov-19 09:24
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 185 Glass Jigsaw 02-Dec-19 13:42
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 186 seanoffshotgun 02-Dec-19 21:37
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 183 Glass Jigsaw 03-Dec-19 01:10
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 194 seanoffshotgun 03-Dec-19 01:26
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 204 Glass Jigsaw 03-Dec-19 11:56
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 168 Glass Jigsaw 17-Dec-19 02:18
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 173 seanoffshotgun 17-Dec-19 02:58
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 174 Glass Jigsaw 17-Dec-19 03:22
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 176 seanoffshotgun 17-Dec-19 08:10
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 170 Glass Jigsaw 17-Dec-19 14:13
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 194 seanoffshotgun 18-Dec-19 06:56
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 175 Glass Jigsaw 21-Dec-19 14:30
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 185 Glass Jigsaw 21-Dec-19 20:58
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 161 seanoffshotgun 26-Dec-19 00:51
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 166 Glass Jigsaw 26-Dec-19 02:05
New video 162 seanoffshotgun 03-Jan-20 06:34
Re: New video 163 Glass Jigsaw 03-Jan-20 23:06
Re: New video 168 seanoffshotgun 04-Jan-20 02:21
Re: New video 164 Glass Jigsaw 06-Jan-20 02:08
Re: The Bard 156 seanoffshotgun 21-Jan-20 08:39
Re: The Bard 142 Glass Jigsaw 28-Jan-20 03:02
Re: The Bard 140 seanoffshotgun 28-Jan-20 14:40
Re: The Bard 148 Glass Jigsaw 28-Jan-20 21:04
Re: The Bard 150 seanoffshotgun 29-Jan-20 16:03
Re: The Bard 146 Glass Jigsaw 01-Feb-20 14:31
Re: The Bard 146 seanoffshotgun 03-Feb-20 08:15
Re: The Bard 135 Glass Jigsaw 04-Feb-20 14:07
Re: The Bard 134 seanoffshotgun 05-Feb-20 10:08
Re: The Bard 139 Glass Jigsaw 05-Feb-20 15:46
Re: The Bard 138 seanoffshotgun 07-Feb-20 10:41
Re: The Bard 151 Glass Jigsaw 07-Feb-20 14:48
Re: The Bard 141 seanoffshotgun 11-Feb-20 19:54
Re: The Bard 142 Glass Jigsaw 12-Feb-20 01:41
Re: The Bard 147 seanoffshotgun 12-Feb-20 05:55
Re: The Bard 144 Glass Jigsaw 13-Feb-20 15:52
Re: The Bard 140 seanoffshotgun 13-Feb-20 22:45
Re: The Bard 138 Glass Jigsaw 14-Feb-20 13:34
Re: The Bard 156 seanoffshotgun 14-Feb-20 19:10
Re: The Bard ..an astrological view 46 Glass Jigsaw 09-Aug-20 23:41
Re: The Bard ..an astrological view 27 seanoffshotgun 08-Sep-20 22:07
Re: The Bard ..an astrological view 35 Glass Jigsaw 09-Sep-20 20:59
Moot court 152 seanoffshotgun 26-Feb-20 10:56
Re: Moot court 98 Glass Jigsaw 28-Apr-20 02:11
Re: Moot court 113 seanoffshotgun 28-Apr-20 04:10
Re: Moot court and Mud Island 135 Glass Jigsaw 29-Apr-20 16:17
Re: The Bard - “Triumphal Forms”. Alastair Fowler 51 Eddie Larry 27-Jul-20 23:02


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