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Hi Big T,

Thunderbird Wrote:
> []

The Sumerians date to c. 3,800BC, the Ubaid c. 5,500BC. The Indus Valley Civilization (IVC) urbanization period ("mature phase") dates to c. 2,600BC. Predating the IVC was the Mehrangarh culture of which settlements begin to appear as early as 7,000BC. It wasn't until the Mehrgarh Period II c. 5,500-4,800BC that ceramics and metallurgy appear which of course coincides directly with the arrival of the Ubaid in Mesopotamia and the Vinca SE Europe. Also of interest is that in the Mehrgarh III period c. 4,800-3,500BC is when they too begin building with mud brick like the Ubaid and also used Mesopotamian cylinder seals and clay stamps, another Ubaid invention. Personally I believe there is a connection to be made here.

Regardless, during the Sumerian period, the intermediary between these two cultures was Elam whose urbanization begins sometime before 3,200BC. Elam, as I said in a previous post, had settlements and trade in the Indus Valley before and during the IVC urbanization period of which it is around this time c. 2,600BC most scholars believe the water buffalo was introduced to Sumer which may have been by way of Elam. The Sumerians appear in Mesopotamia ready to go which they themselves claim they came from another land with their culture and civilization intact. They were voracious traders and when they arrived they accelerated and expanding already existing trade networks far and wide of which the Indus Valley was a part. They were the first to have a fully written language which was disseminated to other cultures in one form or another rather quickly. Given the chronologies of these cultures and the known trade and settlements of Mesopotamians in the region there should be no mystery that just like most other cultures in the greater Mediterranean area for thousands of years the IVC too adopted Sumerian myth/history and incorporated their Sumerian deities into their own religious ideology. The idea that the IVC, or Vedic tradition for that matter, gave it first to the Sumerians just isn't supported by the archeology. Sumer was the world's first "superpower" far ahead of their contemporaries. They travelled far and wide in search of goods and trading partners and told their tales as they went which given the Sumerian spectacle no doubt was quite impressive to these less advanced peoples.

> The link above indicates climate patterns and
> migrations.
> What reasons inspired the migrations to Naqada
> period
> Egypt is the question.

The Naqada region is located south of Abydos of which they had regular interaction with Nubia. AE tradition holds that their ancestral home, and the birthplace of the gods, was the land of Punt (Ta netjer). Some scholars say this would have been somewhere in or near Ethiopia whereas others claim it was somewhere along the Arabian coast across the Red Sea. No one knows for sure. But who were the Naqada and where did they originate from is not the same question as where did the Mesopotamian influence come from.

> I agree that the Aryan/Vedic/Indus forwards are
> biased and
> confusing as to historic dating and migration
> event accuracy.

There is a notable disconnect between the religious aspects of Hindu mythology and the archeology of the Mehrgarh and Indus Valley cultures. This is not to say they were not recollecting history as they knew it long removed, but like all later revisionist cultures creating their own religious identity from earlier history, often not their own, these stories get absorbed and regurgitated in nationalistic ways that are inconsistent with not only the original events but histories of the same written/told long before. Comparing the Biblical tales to their much earlier Sumerian parallels is the best example of this.

> The migrations circa 5000bc stand out in my
> thinking
> The Sumer/Vedic god/mythology parallels indicate
> the
> social consciousness influence which in my
> thinking is
> arriving in Sumer
> and then arriving in Naqada period Egypt.

I would distinguish between an earlier Ubaid influence and later Sumerian, but the point I would harp on about these connections is that there should be little doubt the flow of this influence was from Sumer to the Indus Valley beginning sometime in the 3rd millennium, an influence felt all across the greater Mediterranean region. A Sumerian influence carried on and dispensed all the same by the later peoples who absorbed their culture and traditions namely the Akkadians, Assyrians, and Babylonians for almost the next 2,000yrs. Whoever the "Aryans" or Aryas" were who came along in the mid 2nd millennium, several hundred years after the usurping of Sumer by Akkad-whatever "Sumerian" influence they incurred was obviously from these later cultures and not the "Sumerians" themselves.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 27-Jul-15 00:25 by Thanos5150.

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Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 5031 Thanos5150 19-Jul-15 06:34
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 461 eyeofhorus33 19-Jul-15 15:43
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 842 Thanos5150 19-Jul-15 18:17
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 485 eyeofhorus33 20-Jul-15 07:24
Re: Serapeum 426 Thunderbird 19-Jul-15 16:21
Re: Serapeum 568 Thanos5150 19-Jul-15 18:28
Re: Pre Dyn Pharaohs/Sumer 456 Thunderbird 20-Jul-15 20:40
Re: Pre Dyn Pharaohs/Sumer 491 Thanos5150 21-Jul-15 05:31
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 415 Thanos5150 19-Jul-15 17:39
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 1506 Thanos5150 21-Jul-15 19:02
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 447 molder 20-Jul-15 12:05
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 430 Spiros 20-Jul-15 13:59
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 459 Spiros 23-Jul-15 02:27
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 557 DScribr 20-Jul-15 19:56
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 530 Thanos5150 21-Jul-15 02:28
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 347 Thunderbird 21-Jul-15 15:23
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 384 DScribr 21-Jul-15 19:48
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 506 eyeofhorus33 21-Jul-15 21:51
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 403 Jon Ellison 21-Jul-15 22:41
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 531 Thanos5150 22-Jul-15 05:16
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 385 Corpuscles 22-Jul-15 08:23
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 397 DScribr 23-Jul-15 18:28
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 426 Thanos5150 22-Jul-15 00:21
Ascension 429 loveritas 22-Jul-15 12:53
Re: Ascension 414 Thanos5150 23-Jul-15 05:17
Re: Ascension 418 Sirfiroth 23-Jul-15 09:49
Re: Ascension 401 Thanos5150 23-Jul-15 18:03
Re: Ascension 432 Thunderbird 23-Jul-15 14:53
The Aryans 581 loveritas 24-Jul-15 05:00
Re: The Aryans 659 Jon Ellison 24-Jul-15 09:49
Re: The Aryans 401 Thanos5150 25-Jul-15 04:11
Re: 2 Doors 397 DScribr 23-Jul-15 18:54
Re: 7 Gates - Book of the Dead 473 Thunderbird 24-Jul-15 19:39
Re: 7 Gates - Book of the Dead 523 loveritas 25-Jul-15 00:55
Re: 7 Gates - Book of the Dead 451 Thunderbird 25-Jul-15 15:59
Re: 7 Gates - Book of the Dead 598 Thanos5150 25-Jul-15 20:39
Re: Revisionists and the Theosophical community 467 Thunderbird 26-Jul-15 01:43
Re: Vinca/Indus/Mu - Lemuria 694 Thunderbird 26-Jul-15 02:38
Re: Revisionists and the Theosophical community 422 loveritas 26-Jul-15 03:05
Re: Revisionists and the Theosophical community 747 Thanos5150 26-Jul-15 06:11
Re: Revisionists and the Theosophical community 578 Thunderbird 26-Jul-15 15:59
Re: Sumer DNA Evidence 656 Thunderbird 26-Jul-15 15:30
Re: Sumer DNA Evidence 1147 Thanos5150 26-Jul-15 23:56
Re: Sumer DNA Evidence 408 Corpuscles 27-Jul-15 02:08
Re: Dating 433 Thanos5150 27-Jul-15 05:11
Re: Sumer DNA Evidence 474 Brian Patterson 27-Jul-15 15:34
Re: Out of Thessaly 455 Thunderbird 27-Jul-15 02:36
Re: Out of Thessaly 457 loveritas 27-Jul-15 03:44
Re: Out of Thessaly 447 Thunderbird 27-Jul-15 05:37
Re: Out of Thessaly 448 Origyptian 28-Jul-15 02:16
Re: Posnansky Tiawanaku 435 Thunderbird 28-Jul-15 02:47
Re: Sargon/Menes 450 Thunderbird 28-Jul-15 01:59
Re: Sargon/Menes 1010 Thanos5150 28-Jul-15 06:30
Re: Sargons Empire 422 Thunderbird 28-Jul-15 14:51
Re: Sargons Empire 416 Thanos5150 28-Jul-15 17:54
Re: Sargons Empire 553 Origyptian 28-Jul-15 22:22
Re: Saron/Har Ka- Narmer/Naram Sin 469 Thunderbird 29-Jul-15 20:30
Re: Saron/Har Ka- Narmer/Naram Sin 464 loveritas 29-Jul-15 22:31
Re: Saron/Har Ka- Narmer/Naram Sin 623 Thunderbird 30-Jul-15 22:10
Now There's a Sarcophagus! 456 loveritas 27-Jul-15 00:08
Re:Be kind.....recycle : ) 476 Thunderbird 27-Jul-15 01:27
Re: Re:Be kind.....recycle : ) 402 Thanos5150 27-Jul-15 01:41
Re: Now There's a Sarcophagus! 447 Origyptian 27-Jul-15 02:17
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus, ETC. 398 DScribr 23-Jul-15 18:43
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 401 Corpuscles 21-Jul-15 07:19
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 399 Thanos5150 21-Jul-15 19:40
Re: I see Glass 431 molder 21-Jul-15 10:51
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 537 Archae Solenhofen 21-Jul-15 15:59
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 386 Thanos5150 21-Jul-15 18:31
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 424 Archae Solenhofen 21-Jul-15 20:14
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 485 Thanos5150 22-Jul-15 00:02
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 486 DUNE 21-Jul-15 20:18
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 443 Thanos5150 22-Jul-15 04:29
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 648 DUNE 22-Jul-15 09:02
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 418 Thanos5150 23-Jul-15 04:58
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 475 Corpuscles 23-Jul-15 11:06
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 525 Thanos5150 23-Jul-15 16:31
Re: Menkaure's Format 404 DScribr 23-Jul-15 19:10
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 639 Corpuscles 24-Jul-15 03:59
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 441 Thanos5150 25-Jul-15 02:33
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 515 Corpuscles 25-Jul-15 04:01
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 542 Thanos5150 25-Jul-15 04:56
Without inscriptions. 472 DScribr 23-Jul-15 21:13
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 690 Thanos5150 24-Jul-15 03:08

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