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Hi Big T,

Thunderbird Wrote:
> []

The Sumerians date to c. 3,800BC, the Ubaid c. 5,500BC. The Indus Valley Civilization (IVC) urbanization period ("mature phase") dates to c. 2,600BC. Predating the IVC was the Mehrangarh culture of which settlements begin to appear as early as 7,000BC. It wasn't until the Mehrgarh Period II c. 5,500-4,800BC that ceramics and metallurgy appear which of course coincides directly with the arrival of the Ubaid in Mesopotamia and the Vinca SE Europe. Also of interest is that in the Mehrgarh III period c. 4,800-3,500BC is when they too begin building with mud brick like the Ubaid and also used Mesopotamian cylinder seals and clay stamps, another Ubaid invention. Personally I believe there is a connection to be made here.

Regardless, during the Sumerian period, the intermediary between these two cultures was Elam whose urbanization begins sometime before 3,200BC. Elam, as I said in a previous post, had settlements and trade in the Indus Valley before and during the IVC urbanization period of which it is around this time c. 2,600BC most scholars believe the water buffalo was introduced to Sumer which may have been by way of Elam. The Sumerians appear in Mesopotamia ready to go which they themselves claim they came from another land with their culture and civilization intact. They were voracious traders and when they arrived they accelerated and expanding already existing trade networks far and wide of which the Indus Valley was a part. They were the first to have a fully written language which was disseminated to other cultures in one form or another rather quickly. Given the chronologies of these cultures and the known trade and settlements of Mesopotamians in the region there should be no mystery that just like most other cultures in the greater Mediterranean area for thousands of years the IVC too adopted Sumerian myth/history and incorporated their Sumerian deities into their own religious ideology. The idea that the IVC, or Vedic tradition for that matter, gave it first to the Sumerians just isn't supported by the archeology. Sumer was the world's first "superpower" far ahead of their contemporaries. They travelled far and wide in search of goods and trading partners and told their tales as they went which given the Sumerian spectacle no doubt was quite impressive to these less advanced peoples.

> The link above indicates climate patterns and
> migrations.
> What reasons inspired the migrations to Naqada
> period
> Egypt is the question.

The Naqada region is located south of Abydos of which they had regular interaction with Nubia. AE tradition holds that their ancestral home, and the birthplace of the gods, was the land of Punt (Ta netjer). Some scholars say this would have been somewhere in or near Ethiopia whereas others claim it was somewhere along the Arabian coast across the Red Sea. No one knows for sure. But who were the Naqada and where did they originate from is not the same question as where did the Mesopotamian influence come from.

> I agree that the Aryan/Vedic/Indus forwards are
> biased and
> confusing as to historic dating and migration
> event accuracy.

There is a notable disconnect between the religious aspects of Hindu mythology and the archeology of the Mehrgarh and Indus Valley cultures. This is not to say they were not recollecting history as they knew it long removed, but like all later revisionist cultures creating their own religious identity from earlier history, often not their own, these stories get absorbed and regurgitated in nationalistic ways that are inconsistent with not only the original events but histories of the same written/told long before. Comparing the Biblical tales to their much earlier Sumerian parallels is the best example of this.

> The migrations circa 5000bc stand out in my
> thinking
> The Sumer/Vedic god/mythology parallels indicate
> the
> social consciousness influence which in my
> thinking is
> arriving in Sumer
> and then arriving in Naqada period Egypt.

I would distinguish between an earlier Ubaid influence and later Sumerian, but the point I would harp on about these connections is that there should be little doubt the flow of this influence was from Sumer to the Indus Valley beginning sometime in the 3rd millennium, an influence felt all across the greater Mediterranean region. A Sumerian influence carried on and dispensed all the same by the later peoples who absorbed their culture and traditions namely the Akkadians, Assyrians, and Babylonians for almost the next 2,000yrs. Whoever the "Aryans" or Aryas" were who came along in the mid 2nd millennium, several hundred years after the usurping of Sumer by Akkad-whatever "Sumerian" influence they incurred was obviously from these later cultures and not the "Sumerians" themselves.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 27-Jul-15 00:25 by Thanos5150.

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Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 5055 Thanos5150 19-Jul-15 06:34
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 464 eyeofhorus33 19-Jul-15 15:43
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 845 Thanos5150 19-Jul-15 18:17
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 489 eyeofhorus33 20-Jul-15 07:24
Re: Serapeum 430 Thunderbird 19-Jul-15 16:21
Re: Serapeum 572 Thanos5150 19-Jul-15 18:28
Re: Pre Dyn Pharaohs/Sumer 461 Thunderbird 20-Jul-15 20:40
Re: Pre Dyn Pharaohs/Sumer 495 Thanos5150 21-Jul-15 05:31
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 418 Thanos5150 19-Jul-15 17:39
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 1515 Thanos5150 21-Jul-15 19:02
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 451 molder 20-Jul-15 12:05
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 433 Spiros 20-Jul-15 13:59
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 463 Spiros 23-Jul-15 02:27
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 560 DScribr 20-Jul-15 19:56
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 534 Thanos5150 21-Jul-15 02:28
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 350 Thunderbird 21-Jul-15 15:23
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 389 DScribr 21-Jul-15 19:48
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 510 eyeofhorus33 21-Jul-15 21:51
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 407 Jon Ellison 21-Jul-15 22:41
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 536 Thanos5150 22-Jul-15 05:16
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 388 Corpuscles 22-Jul-15 08:23
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 401 DScribr 23-Jul-15 18:28
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 429 Thanos5150 22-Jul-15 00:21
Ascension 433 loveritas 22-Jul-15 12:53
Re: Ascension 418 Thanos5150 23-Jul-15 05:17
Re: Ascension 421 Sirfiroth 23-Jul-15 09:49
Re: Ascension 404 Thanos5150 23-Jul-15 18:03
Re: Ascension 438 Thunderbird 23-Jul-15 14:53
The Aryans 585 loveritas 24-Jul-15 05:00
Re: The Aryans 662 Jon Ellison 24-Jul-15 09:49
Re: The Aryans 405 Thanos5150 25-Jul-15 04:11
Re: 2 Doors 400 DScribr 23-Jul-15 18:54
Re: 7 Gates - Book of the Dead 476 Thunderbird 24-Jul-15 19:39
Re: 7 Gates - Book of the Dead 527 loveritas 25-Jul-15 00:55
Re: 7 Gates - Book of the Dead 454 Thunderbird 25-Jul-15 15:59
Re: 7 Gates - Book of the Dead 601 Thanos5150 25-Jul-15 20:39
Re: Revisionists and the Theosophical community 471 Thunderbird 26-Jul-15 01:43
Re: Vinca/Indus/Mu - Lemuria 698 Thunderbird 26-Jul-15 02:38
Re: Revisionists and the Theosophical community 425 loveritas 26-Jul-15 03:05
Re: Revisionists and the Theosophical community 751 Thanos5150 26-Jul-15 06:11
Re: Revisionists and the Theosophical community 582 Thunderbird 26-Jul-15 15:59
Re: Sumer DNA Evidence 660 Thunderbird 26-Jul-15 15:30
Re: Sumer DNA Evidence 1151 Thanos5150 26-Jul-15 23:56
Re: Sumer DNA Evidence 411 Corpuscles 27-Jul-15 02:08
Re: Dating 437 Thanos5150 27-Jul-15 05:11
Re: Sumer DNA Evidence 477 Brian Patterson 27-Jul-15 15:34
Re: Out of Thessaly 459 Thunderbird 27-Jul-15 02:36
Re: Out of Thessaly 460 loveritas 27-Jul-15 03:44
Re: Out of Thessaly 452 Thunderbird 27-Jul-15 05:37
Re: Out of Thessaly 453 Origyptian 28-Jul-15 02:16
Re: Posnansky Tiawanaku 439 Thunderbird 28-Jul-15 02:47
Re: Sargon/Menes 455 Thunderbird 28-Jul-15 01:59
Re: Sargon/Menes 1014 Thanos5150 28-Jul-15 06:30
Re: Sargons Empire 425 Thunderbird 28-Jul-15 14:51
Re: Sargons Empire 419 Thanos5150 28-Jul-15 17:54
Re: Sargons Empire 557 Origyptian 28-Jul-15 22:22
Re: Saron/Har Ka- Narmer/Naram Sin 473 Thunderbird 29-Jul-15 20:30
Re: Saron/Har Ka- Narmer/Naram Sin 467 loveritas 29-Jul-15 22:31
Re: Saron/Har Ka- Narmer/Naram Sin 627 Thunderbird 30-Jul-15 22:10
Now There's a Sarcophagus! 461 loveritas 27-Jul-15 00:08
Re:Be kind.....recycle : ) 479 Thunderbird 27-Jul-15 01:27
Re: Re:Be kind.....recycle : ) 406 Thanos5150 27-Jul-15 01:41
Re: Now There's a Sarcophagus! 451 Origyptian 27-Jul-15 02:17
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus, ETC. 403 DScribr 23-Jul-15 18:43
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 404 Corpuscles 21-Jul-15 07:19
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 403 Thanos5150 21-Jul-15 19:40
Re: I see Glass 435 molder 21-Jul-15 10:51
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 542 Archae Solenhofen 21-Jul-15 15:59
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 389 Thanos5150 21-Jul-15 18:31
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 428 Archae Solenhofen 21-Jul-15 20:14
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 489 Thanos5150 22-Jul-15 00:02
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 490 DUNE 21-Jul-15 20:18
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 447 Thanos5150 22-Jul-15 04:29
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 652 DUNE 22-Jul-15 09:02
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 423 Thanos5150 23-Jul-15 04:58
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 479 Corpuscles 23-Jul-15 11:06
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 529 Thanos5150 23-Jul-15 16:31
Re: Menkaure's Format 408 DScribr 23-Jul-15 19:10
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 643 Corpuscles 24-Jul-15 03:59
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 444 Thanos5150 25-Jul-15 02:33
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 519 Corpuscles 25-Jul-15 04:01
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 545 Thanos5150 25-Jul-15 04:56
Without inscriptions. 476 DScribr 23-Jul-15 21:13
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 694 Thanos5150 24-Jul-15 03:08

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