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Hello Loveritas,

loveritas Wrote:
> Hi T Bird,
> From your Vinca link :
> "Several eminent archaeologists of the time
> (such as Childe, Hood, Vlassa, Maccay), were
> convinced that the Vinca had somehow been
> influenced or 'cradled into being' by the mistaken
> belief at the time that the Sumerians were the
> 'Mother race'.
> However, much to everyone surprise, more recent
> discoveries of earlier Vinca settlements have
> shown quite clearly that events must have occurred
> the other way round as the Old European
> settlements, along with writing, pottery,
> metallurgy and 'Ubaid' style art, date to a
> thousand years before the first Sumerian
> fingerprint, suggesting remarkably that it was
> actually a Western European culture that
> influenced Sumerian development."

Nobody listens to Thanos. Sigh. It should be "(South) Eastern European culture".

> There may be some confusion as to just what
> constitutes the term Aryan.

This is why one would not want to quote Waddell as he was of the firm belief Aryans, or the "Nordic Race" as he also called them, originated from West Europe whom he considered to be the "oldest of all the civilized races" and "parent of all other civilizations". I believe the more apt term for those of Aryavarta are the "Aryas".

> The ancient name for
> India is Aryavarta, literally, "abode of the
> Aryans." The Sanskrit root of arya is "worthy,
> holy, noble." The later ethnological misuse of
> Aryan to signify not spiritual, but physical,
> characteristics, has lead down a racial path
> instead of one of enlightenment.

Of which Waddell is one of the most notable perpetrators of this misuse.
What does spiritual enlightenment have to do with the historicity of Aryavarta?

> The error hasn't
> been helped by Aryans being labelled
> Indo-Europeans, and/or, differentiated through
> language.

But it's an appropriate distinction to be made. The dating of Vedic literature beyond c 500BC is derived from one Max Muller in the 19th century based on his application of philology allowing for an arbitrary passing of 200yrs between the development of the classes of Vedic literature from when they were believed to have been first written down. Modern revision has refined this somewhat purporting they were compiled into oral tradition sometime between c. 1700-1100BC but not actually written down until c. 500BC. The problem I have with this as I have said before is this is all based on linguistic reduction and not actual archeological evidence which contradicts these beliefs. How could the Vedas be completed in oral tradition since 1700-1100BC yet it is only after they were written down in 500BC that there is an explosion of visible acknowledgement of these traditions whereas prior to this time there is virtually none? If true, it does not make much sense implying that the religious aspects of the Vedas were largely inventions of later culture much closer to when the Vedas actually began to be written c. 500BC.

Regardless, the point being missed here is that these Indo-Europeans are not one and the same as the Indus Valley civilization that preceded them by at least several hundred if not 1,000yrs or more yet the Vedas talk about history that goes back thousands of years even before their time. You have a completely unrelated people migrating to the region supposedly telling the history of another so the question is whose history is really whose? The Harappan/Indus Valley culture shows nothing relatable to the themes of the Vedic texts and are acknowledged as being clearly culturally different. Yet according to interpretations of the Vedas of such a long history they are one and the same claiming a history that goes back thousands of years earlier? There is no evidence the Harappans knew anything of any "Rama", "Vishnu", and the like nor held any of the same beliefs extolled in the Vedas. This is a serious problem which seems to be ignored.Vedic scholars want desperately for Vedic culture to be much older than it is but the fact seems to be that it is not and what is older is unrelated. Later revisionist tales imbued with unrelated religious beliefs imposed on unrelated peoples that came long before. Ring any bells?

Regardless, I have no doubt the Vedas contain valid historical accounts filtered and passed down through time and that the history of civilization in India is potentially much older than accepted; the writers were clearly privy to ancient knowledge and scientific/technological concepts they had no business having at this time. But the meme of spirituality and resulting religious historicity contained within them seems superimposed upon the unrelated peoples who preceded them by later revisionist writers well over 1,000yrs, in reality 2,000yrs, removed.

> This detour of major proportions was exacerbated
> by Hitler sending study groups to Tibet, Sikkim
> and many places worldwide in search of Aryans, as
> he believed that the Nordic race was Aryan and was
> ethnically superior to other races.

> Therefore, one can
> quite easily see how a balanced, unemotional
> viewpoint is difficult in a discussion of this
> nature.

Very true. In researching Petrie's Dynastic Race, a similar connotation, one comes across the same impasse of ignorance which is unfortunate as the archeology is still there regardless of political correctness.

> Hence, the bias by fellow academics
> against Waddell is understandable in this light.

Waddell wrote nearly all of his material well before the rise of the 3rd Reich and his works were clearly inspiration to some circles for racist/anti-Semtic thought including Natzism, though to be fair I do not think this was his intention by any means. The notion of "white superiority" was ubiquitous in Waddell's day and his work was largely dismissed by his peers regardless of it telling many people what they wanted to hear. The real backlash against his ideas from his fellow academics, other than his questionable interpretations and conclusions, was that his ideas were contradicting the prevailing Biblical view of a Semitic origin of civilization which rightly or wrongly is what he was largely roundly criticized for.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 26-Jul-15 15:46 by Thanos5150.

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Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 5055 Thanos5150 19-Jul-15 06:34
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 464 eyeofhorus33 19-Jul-15 15:43
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 845 Thanos5150 19-Jul-15 18:17
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 488 eyeofhorus33 20-Jul-15 07:24
Re: Serapeum 430 Thunderbird 19-Jul-15 16:21
Re: Serapeum 572 Thanos5150 19-Jul-15 18:28
Re: Pre Dyn Pharaohs/Sumer 461 Thunderbird 20-Jul-15 20:40
Re: Pre Dyn Pharaohs/Sumer 494 Thanos5150 21-Jul-15 05:31
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 418 Thanos5150 19-Jul-15 17:39
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 1515 Thanos5150 21-Jul-15 19:02
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 451 molder 20-Jul-15 12:05
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 433 Spiros 20-Jul-15 13:59
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 463 Spiros 23-Jul-15 02:27
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 560 DScribr 20-Jul-15 19:56
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 533 Thanos5150 21-Jul-15 02:28
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 350 Thunderbird 21-Jul-15 15:23
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 389 DScribr 21-Jul-15 19:48
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 509 eyeofhorus33 21-Jul-15 21:51
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 406 Jon Ellison 21-Jul-15 22:41
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 536 Thanos5150 22-Jul-15 05:16
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 388 Corpuscles 22-Jul-15 08:23
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 401 DScribr 23-Jul-15 18:28
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 429 Thanos5150 22-Jul-15 00:21
Ascension 432 loveritas 22-Jul-15 12:53
Re: Ascension 417 Thanos5150 23-Jul-15 05:17
Re: Ascension 421 Sirfiroth 23-Jul-15 09:49
Re: Ascension 404 Thanos5150 23-Jul-15 18:03
Re: Ascension 438 Thunderbird 23-Jul-15 14:53
The Aryans 584 loveritas 24-Jul-15 05:00
Re: The Aryans 662 Jon Ellison 24-Jul-15 09:49
Re: The Aryans 405 Thanos5150 25-Jul-15 04:11
Re: 2 Doors 400 DScribr 23-Jul-15 18:54
Re: 7 Gates - Book of the Dead 476 Thunderbird 24-Jul-15 19:39
Re: 7 Gates - Book of the Dead 527 loveritas 25-Jul-15 00:55
Re: 7 Gates - Book of the Dead 454 Thunderbird 25-Jul-15 15:59
Re: 7 Gates - Book of the Dead 601 Thanos5150 25-Jul-15 20:39
Re: Revisionists and the Theosophical community 471 Thunderbird 26-Jul-15 01:43
Re: Vinca/Indus/Mu - Lemuria 697 Thunderbird 26-Jul-15 02:38
Re: Revisionists and the Theosophical community 425 loveritas 26-Jul-15 03:05
Re: Revisionists and the Theosophical community 750 Thanos5150 26-Jul-15 06:11
Re: Revisionists and the Theosophical community 582 Thunderbird 26-Jul-15 15:59
Re: Sumer DNA Evidence 659 Thunderbird 26-Jul-15 15:30
Re: Sumer DNA Evidence 1151 Thanos5150 26-Jul-15 23:56
Re: Sumer DNA Evidence 411 Corpuscles 27-Jul-15 02:08
Re: Dating 436 Thanos5150 27-Jul-15 05:11
Re: Sumer DNA Evidence 477 Brian Patterson 27-Jul-15 15:34
Re: Out of Thessaly 458 Thunderbird 27-Jul-15 02:36
Re: Out of Thessaly 460 loveritas 27-Jul-15 03:44
Re: Out of Thessaly 451 Thunderbird 27-Jul-15 05:37
Re: Out of Thessaly 452 Origyptian 28-Jul-15 02:16
Re: Posnansky Tiawanaku 438 Thunderbird 28-Jul-15 02:47
Re: Sargon/Menes 455 Thunderbird 28-Jul-15 01:59
Re: Sargon/Menes 1013 Thanos5150 28-Jul-15 06:30
Re: Sargons Empire 425 Thunderbird 28-Jul-15 14:51
Re: Sargons Empire 419 Thanos5150 28-Jul-15 17:54
Re: Sargons Empire 557 Origyptian 28-Jul-15 22:22
Re: Saron/Har Ka- Narmer/Naram Sin 472 Thunderbird 29-Jul-15 20:30
Re: Saron/Har Ka- Narmer/Naram Sin 467 loveritas 29-Jul-15 22:31
Re: Saron/Har Ka- Narmer/Naram Sin 627 Thunderbird 30-Jul-15 22:10
Now There's a Sarcophagus! 461 loveritas 27-Jul-15 00:08
Re:Be kind.....recycle : ) 479 Thunderbird 27-Jul-15 01:27
Re: Re:Be kind.....recycle : ) 406 Thanos5150 27-Jul-15 01:41
Re: Now There's a Sarcophagus! 450 Origyptian 27-Jul-15 02:17
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus, ETC. 402 DScribr 23-Jul-15 18:43
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 404 Corpuscles 21-Jul-15 07:19
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 402 Thanos5150 21-Jul-15 19:40
Re: I see Glass 435 molder 21-Jul-15 10:51
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 542 Archae Solenhofen 21-Jul-15 15:59
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 389 Thanos5150 21-Jul-15 18:31
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 428 Archae Solenhofen 21-Jul-15 20:14
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 489 Thanos5150 22-Jul-15 00:02
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 489 DUNE 21-Jul-15 20:18
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 447 Thanos5150 22-Jul-15 04:29
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 651 DUNE 22-Jul-15 09:02
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 422 Thanos5150 23-Jul-15 04:58
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 479 Corpuscles 23-Jul-15 11:06
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 529 Thanos5150 23-Jul-15 16:31
Re: Menkaure's Format 407 DScribr 23-Jul-15 19:10
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 643 Corpuscles 24-Jul-15 03:59
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 444 Thanos5150 25-Jul-15 02:33
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 519 Corpuscles 25-Jul-15 04:01
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 545 Thanos5150 25-Jul-15 04:56
Without inscriptions. 476 DScribr 23-Jul-15 21:13
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 693 Thanos5150 24-Jul-15 03:08

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