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Hi Corp,

Corpuscles Wrote:
> Hi Thanos
> I am in no position to argue with you, as you know
> much more about this than me. I was merely
> offering suggestions, given that the context of
> the items was funerary.

And I appreciate it. Just saying it goes back much farther than that and has a different context.

> The problem is that the AE did not just represent
> doorways but rather an actual building of which
> actual palace facade buildings have been found.
> Are you saying a building(s) have been found that
> show the exact façade? If so where? Got any
> pics?

I didn't say that "exact" facade though many examples of the ruins of palace facade buildings have been posted in this thread alone. For all we know that building may not have even been in Egypt.

> Most of them (on sarcophagi) are all different in
> minor detail, some similar but others very
> different?

They all exhibit the same consistent similarities regardless of the exact details which as a whole make it hard to believe they are all not homages to the same building(s).

> Those aren't figures
> Oh! Sorry, what are they then?

I believe they are supposed to be crossed or double axes but forget exactly.
Look here:

> "Building"
> Yes it looks (to our mind definitely) like a
> building. Which it seems, you consider attributes
> "kingship".
> Are you arguing that all the other boxes are not
> kings coffins (i.e. Lesser status or
> different period?)

I'm not sure what you mean exactly, sorry.

> Or are you suggesting that all
> such palace façade sarcophagus are contemporary
> with each other, in a specific period,

It appears they first begin in the mid 4th Dynasty.

> or of
> specific ethnic background,

Never thought of that, but interesting.The AE were keen on bloodlines which this may have had some further symbolism in this regard. I've always thought it to be merely an ideological association, but there may be more to it.

> when to be a king /
> ruler meant you got buried in a quasi palace stone
> box?

I don't think the palace facade building had as much to do exclusively with kingship at this time and took on a more general ideological meaning. Possibly a political, religious, or ideological allegiance to the old ways. It was also at this time the cartouche appears replacing the serekh as the formal seal of kingship (though some still used both for a time) and RA is instituted as the patron God of Egypt. A "changing of the guard" of sorts.

> Or as others have noted we have no way of
> determining the age or era of any stone box, and
> especially given the focus is on Menkaure ( no
> tangible thing to examine) surely a mere
> examination of :
> -The layout of the G3 "tombs" and the considerable
> add-ons that have happened progressively over
> time. (Special note of the six niche room)
> -The clear signs of the pyramid being built over
> an original (two entrance, one blind,
> configuration)
> -The remnant of the wooden Anthropoid coffin held
> in BM is very likely a later NK design.
> - Clear signs the G3 "temples" are ancient and
> have been rebuilt refurbished many times.
> -etc etc
> That there is little basis to attribute the lost ,
> or imagined, drawing of Menkaure's sarcophagus to
> any one person or time in particular, at all?

True, but in context we find many similar examples beginning in the middle 4th Dynasty so we can place it at least there or after. Could these sarcophagi date earlier than that and/or have been recycled? An interesting possibility.

> My biased interest in your thread , whilst very
> interested in the significance of the Mesopotamian
> "connection" was in part the fascination with the
> extremely muddled confused state of what is
> thought to be contemporary with "X" Dynasty
> especially 4th.

Talk to me about it. What are your thoughts exactly?

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 25-Jul-15 16:13 by Thanos5150.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 4745 Thanos5150 19-Jul-15 06:34
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 431 eyeofhorus33 19-Jul-15 15:43
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 796 Thanos5150 19-Jul-15 18:17
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 464 eyeofhorus33 20-Jul-15 07:24
Re: Serapeum 401 Thunderbird 19-Jul-15 16:21
Re: Serapeum 543 Thanos5150 19-Jul-15 18:28
Re: Pre Dyn Pharaohs/Sumer 433 Thunderbird 20-Jul-15 20:40
Re: Pre Dyn Pharaohs/Sumer 464 Thanos5150 21-Jul-15 05:31
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 391 Thanos5150 19-Jul-15 17:39
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 1369 Thanos5150 21-Jul-15 19:02
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 422 molder 20-Jul-15 12:05
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 403 Spiros 20-Jul-15 13:59
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 435 Spiros 23-Jul-15 02:27
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 533 DScribr 20-Jul-15 19:56
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 480 Thanos5150 21-Jul-15 02:28
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 321 Thunderbird 21-Jul-15 15:23
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 360 DScribr 21-Jul-15 19:48
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 474 eyeofhorus33 21-Jul-15 21:51
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 378 Jon Ellison 21-Jul-15 22:41
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 507 Thanos5150 22-Jul-15 05:16
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 365 Corpuscles 22-Jul-15 08:23
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 373 DScribr 23-Jul-15 18:28
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 402 Thanos5150 22-Jul-15 00:21
Ascension 409 loveritas 22-Jul-15 12:53
Re: Ascension 393 Thanos5150 23-Jul-15 05:17
Re: Ascension 395 Sirfiroth 23-Jul-15 09:49
Re: Ascension 378 Thanos5150 23-Jul-15 18:03
Re: Ascension 412 Thunderbird 23-Jul-15 14:53
The Aryans 544 loveritas 24-Jul-15 05:00
Re: The Aryans 637 Jon Ellison 24-Jul-15 09:49
Re: The Aryans 377 Thanos5150 25-Jul-15 04:11
Re: 2 Doors 375 DScribr 23-Jul-15 18:54
Re: 7 Gates - Book of the Dead 450 Thunderbird 24-Jul-15 19:39
Re: 7 Gates - Book of the Dead 492 loveritas 25-Jul-15 00:55
Re: 7 Gates - Book of the Dead 429 Thunderbird 25-Jul-15 15:59
Re: 7 Gates - Book of the Dead 576 Thanos5150 25-Jul-15 20:39
Re: Revisionists and the Theosophical community 447 Thunderbird 26-Jul-15 01:43
Re: Vinca/Indus/Mu - Lemuria 665 Thunderbird 26-Jul-15 02:38
Re: Revisionists and the Theosophical community 405 loveritas 26-Jul-15 03:05
Re: Revisionists and the Theosophical community 723 Thanos5150 26-Jul-15 06:11
Re: Revisionists and the Theosophical community 557 Thunderbird 26-Jul-15 15:59
Re: Sumer DNA Evidence 632 Thunderbird 26-Jul-15 15:30
Re: Sumer DNA Evidence 1109 Thanos5150 26-Jul-15 23:56
Re: Sumer DNA Evidence 388 Corpuscles 27-Jul-15 02:08
Re: Dating 406 Thanos5150 27-Jul-15 05:11
Re: Sumer DNA Evidence 455 Brian Patterson 27-Jul-15 15:34
Re: Out of Thessaly 432 Thunderbird 27-Jul-15 02:36
Re: Out of Thessaly 436 loveritas 27-Jul-15 03:44
Re: Out of Thessaly 424 Thunderbird 27-Jul-15 05:37
Re: Out of Thessaly 424 Origyptian 28-Jul-15 02:16
Re: Posnansky Tiawanaku 412 Thunderbird 28-Jul-15 02:47
Re: Sargon/Menes 425 Thunderbird 28-Jul-15 01:59
Re: Sargon/Menes 952 Thanos5150 28-Jul-15 06:30
Re: Sargons Empire 400 Thunderbird 28-Jul-15 14:51
Re: Sargons Empire 393 Thanos5150 28-Jul-15 17:54
Re: Sargons Empire 524 Origyptian 28-Jul-15 22:22
Re: Saron/Har Ka- Narmer/Naram Sin 445 Thunderbird 29-Jul-15 20:30
Re: Saron/Har Ka- Narmer/Naram Sin 429 loveritas 29-Jul-15 22:31
Re: Saron/Har Ka- Narmer/Naram Sin 603 Thunderbird 30-Jul-15 22:10
Now There's a Sarcophagus! 434 loveritas 27-Jul-15 00:08
Re:Be kind.....recycle : ) 457 Thunderbird 27-Jul-15 01:27
Re: Re:Be kind.....recycle : ) 378 Thanos5150 27-Jul-15 01:41
Re: Now There's a Sarcophagus! 428 Origyptian 27-Jul-15 02:17
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus, ETC. 375 DScribr 23-Jul-15 18:43
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 383 Corpuscles 21-Jul-15 07:19
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 379 Thanos5150 21-Jul-15 19:40
Re: I see Glass 411 molder 21-Jul-15 10:51
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 509 Archae Solenhofen 21-Jul-15 15:59
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 362 Thanos5150 21-Jul-15 18:31
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 401 Archae Solenhofen 21-Jul-15 20:14
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 459 Thanos5150 22-Jul-15 00:02
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 452 DUNE 21-Jul-15 20:18
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 416 Thanos5150 22-Jul-15 04:29
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 626 DUNE 22-Jul-15 09:02
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 396 Thanos5150 23-Jul-15 04:58
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 455 Corpuscles 23-Jul-15 11:06
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 504 Thanos5150 23-Jul-15 16:31
Re: Menkaure's Format 384 DScribr 23-Jul-15 19:10
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 622 Corpuscles 24-Jul-15 03:59
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 422 Thanos5150 25-Jul-15 02:33
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 495 Corpuscles 25-Jul-15 04:01
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 519 Thanos5150 25-Jul-15 04:56
Without inscriptions. 450 DScribr 23-Jul-15 21:13
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 670 Thanos5150 24-Jul-15 03:08

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