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Thanos5150 wrote:

> Origyptian:
Quote

> One of the ostraca fragments is a communication between
> the quarry and the procurator admitting that the column is
> ready for shipment but the quarry administrator doesn't know
> what quarry it's from. In another fragment the quarryman asks
> the procurator for "more iron" to presumably speed up getting a
> single column ready. What kind of quarry is this that isn't
> equipped to quarry the stones that are on order?
> One that quarries columns obviously. Yes, we in the modern
> world never make mistakes or need more material to complete a
> job. Come on man. But strange you would cite an ostraca that
> clearly refers to quarrying and columns yet still think this is
> not evidence? A broken record, but this make no sense. The
> ostraca speak extensively of the quarrying activities which as
> you unknowingly note the overwhelming majority date to the time
> of Hadrian which is also the most active period of using the
> stone from MC in the Roman Empire.


Note quite. I think you may be overreading. Here is the complete inscription, per Russell (P.212):
Quote

To Antonius Flavianus, prefect, from the foreman and the stonemasons, Sir, greetings. With the help of our Lord Sarapis and the Tyche of Claudianus and your Tyche we announce that we have finished one of the 25 foot columns on the 26th day of Hathyr. If you please, Sir, and with the accord of our master the procurator, if steel and charcoal be sent to us, we shall finish the other one faster, if we can work without hindrance. From the moment you send us (it, and if) all the infidels (will leave us in peace)...(we shall be able to finish it).
I presume the parenthetic phrases are speculation of the translator to replace unreadable inscriptions. There is no reference to quarrying any stone. In fact there is no reference to actually doing any work on a stone at all. "Finished" could simply mean it's packed up on the transporter and ready to roll, but could also mean trimming a pre-existing column to the procurator's current specifications. There is no specific indication of what they intended to use the "steel and charcoal" for -- it makes no mention of whether the "steel" should be chisels, axles, spokes, nails, tie-bands, etc. I'm wondering why he didn't specify what form of "steel" he needed.

And so we are left with the distinct possibility that the "steel and charcoal" may instead be intended simply as bribes to keep the "infidels" away so they can finish their work. To speculate alternative unreadable phrases: "From the moment you send us the bribes, all the infidels will leave us in peace...and we will be allowed to finish our work". After all, there were many reports of the locals causing repeated disruptions in the workflow, and it's certainly logical that the quarry would tend to resist giving away its own precious tools as bribes to keep the locals at bay or else they would soon run out of tools. The generic request for "steel and charcoal" might simply indicate that ANY form form of steel would suffice as a trinket to keep the infidels away. But wasn't M. Claudianus akin to a military operation with a so-called "fort" there that allegedly protected the quarry operation?

And regarding the source of the column:
Quote

You write, Sir, to tell you from which quarry. We do not know the name of the quarry, but it is the quarry far from praesidium, lying towards Porphyrites, which we have given the name 'Philoserapis'. When we were well arrived at the quarry...
And they were ready to ship the 2nd column 19 days later, but apparently it was either a broken/repaired column or the result of conjoining two pre-existing shorter columns to form one longer column which resulted in this inscription:
Quote

We have received your letter, Sir, in which you reproach us about the caurasia [broken stone?] because we have made then conterminous [fitted them together?]. However, as we (had learnt) from your letter that there was iron in the store, we used all the colour-mixing, like the people of old (taught us).

"Steel and charcoal"?
"Infidels"?
"Conterminous"?
"People of old"?

Fascinating material, these ostraca.



______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 1042 JonnyMcA 25-Jun-15 20:33
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 454 Thanos5150 25-Jun-15 23:19
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 488 Corpuscles 26-Jun-15 01:22
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 540 Audrey 26-Jun-15 02:00
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 465 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 02:52
Re: Mons Claudianus Tools 462 MJT 26-Jun-15 17:34
Re: Mons Claudianus Tools 449 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 17:57
Re: Mons Claudianus Tools 522 MJT 26-Jun-15 19:22
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 463 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 04:04
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 446 Audrey 26-Jun-15 05:18
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 452 Jon Ellison 26-Jun-15 10:24
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 485 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 15:26
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 457 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 19:23
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 455 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 06:28
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 385 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 14:50
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 418 Audrey 27-Jun-15 02:20
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 400 Origyptian 27-Jun-15 04:49
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 462 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 02:33
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 493 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 07:06
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 453 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 15:06
Example 483 DScribr 26-Jun-15 18:05
Re: Example 419 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 19:04
Re: Example 398 cladking 26-Jun-15 19:21
Re: Example 438 Brian Patterson 26-Jun-15 19:32
Re: Example 490 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 19:43
Re: Example 441 DScribr 26-Jun-15 22:36
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 429 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 20:24
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 467 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 21:42
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 455 Corpuscles 27-Jun-15 00:19
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 457 Audrey 27-Jun-15 02:26
Same old same old..... 513 DScribr 26-Jun-15 22:48
Re: Same old same old..... 488 Thanos5150 27-Jun-15 05:16
Re: Same old same old..... 450 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 16:08
Re: Same old same old..... 461 Origyptian 27-Jun-15 21:18
Re: Same old same old..... 410 Corpuscles 28-Jun-15 00:10
Re: Same old same old..... 381 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 01:25
Re: Same old same old..... 470 Corpuscles 28-Jun-15 02:52
Re: Same old same old..... 444 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 01:35
Re: Same old same old..... 455 Audrey 28-Jun-15 00:47
Re: Same old same old..... 505 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 02:56
Re: Same old same old..... 431 Merrell 28-Jun-15 13:20
Only One World of True Believers? 458 cladking 28-Jun-15 15:23
Re: Same old same old..... 419 Thanos5150 28-Jun-15 03:27
Re: Same old same old..... 520 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 11:00
Re: Same old same old..... 394 Thanos5150 28-Jun-15 16:53
Re: Same old same old..... 497 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 17:25
Re: Same old same old..... 422 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 18:14
Why change??? 412 DScribr 30-Jun-15 22:19
Re: Why change??? 414 Jon Ellison 30-Jun-15 22:52
Re: Why change??? 447 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 04:27
Re: Why change??? 480 Corpuscles 01-Jul-15 06:11
Re: Why change??? 429 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 13:41
Re: Why change??? 421 Jon Ellison 01-Jul-15 14:08
Re: Why change??? 488 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 15:33
Re: Why change??? 425 Jon Ellison 01-Jul-15 15:38
Re: Why change??? 495 Jon Ellison 01-Jul-15 16:03
Re: Why change??? 456 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 16:21
Re: Why care about the facts??? 408 DScribr 02-Jul-15 19:59
Re: Why care about the facts??? 420 Origyptian 02-Jul-15 20:13
Re: Why care about the facts??? 443 Jon Ellison 02-Jul-15 20:52
Mod Warning > Jon Ellison 451 lukehancock 03-Jul-15 11:20
Re: Why should 'we' care about the facts??? 487 DScribr 06-Jul-15 18:17
Re: Why should 'we' care about the facts??? 451 Corpuscles 07-Jul-15 02:26
Re: Why should 'we' care about the facts??? 454 Origyptian 07-Jul-15 03:26
Willful ignorance 499 DScribr 07-Jul-15 18:02
Re: Why care about the facts??? 451 Jon Ellison 02-Jul-15 22:49
Re: NO change of facts 426 DScribr 02-Jul-15 19:54
Re: NO change of facts 443 Origyptian 02-Jul-15 21:55
Re: Why change??? 393 DScribr 02-Jul-15 19:52
Re: Why change??? 493 Origyptian 02-Jul-15 21:54
"Seems to be..." 415 DScribr 06-Jul-15 18:06
Re: "Seems to be..." 423 Origyptian 06-Jul-15 19:03
Re: "Seems to be..." 335 DScribr 07-Jul-15 17:48
Re: "Seems to be..." 435 Origyptian 07-Jul-15 18:19
Re: "Seems to be..." 422 DScribr 07-Jul-15 18:31
Re: "Seems to be..." 439 Origyptian 07-Jul-15 18:35
Re: "Seems to be..." 441 Jon Ellison 07-Jul-15 20:27
Re: Seems to be a Dbl-standard 453 DScribr 08-Jul-15 17:49
Re: Seems to be a Dbl-standard 391 Origyptian 08-Jul-15 17:55
It IS a Dbl-standard!!! 415 DScribr 08-Jul-15 22:49
Re: It IS a Dbl-standard!!! 506 Jon Ellison 09-Jul-15 00:32
Re: It IS a Dbl-standard!!! 461 Origyptian 09-Jul-15 05:55
Same nonsense-different day... 486 DScribr 09-Jul-15 18:13
Re: Same nonsense-different day... 501 Origyptian 09-Jul-15 18:45
Re: Same nonsense-different day... 445 Jon Ellison 09-Jul-15 19:21
Re: Same nonsense-different day....A MUST READ for all Ori "Fans." 418 DScribr 10-Jul-15 19:29
Re: Same nonsense-different day....A MUST READ for all Ori "Fans." 541 Origyptian 10-Jul-15 21:02
Selective memory loss 563 DScribr 10-Jul-15 22:49
Re: Seems to be a Dbl-standard 425 Jon Ellison 09-Jul-15 01:09
English Lesson 441 randompHactor 27-Jun-15 15:46
Re: English Lesson 466 Thanos5150 27-Jun-15 16:33
Re: English Lesson 476 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 16:55
Re: English Lesson 504 Origyptian 27-Jun-15 20:25
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 463 Corpuscles 26-Jun-15 04:31
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 381 Audrey 26-Jun-15 05:23
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 384 Corpuscles 26-Jun-15 06:43
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 386 Audrey 27-Jun-15 01:28
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 433 Corpuscles 27-Jun-15 01:56
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 475 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 17:00
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 556 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 18:58
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 443 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 20:05
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 458 Origyptian 29-Jun-15 13:39
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 455 Jon Ellison 29-Jun-15 14:11
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 456 Audrey 30-Jun-15 03:01
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 479 Jon Ellison 30-Jun-15 13:20
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 421 DUNE 27-Jun-15 17:01
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 440 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 17:10
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 442 Sirfiroth 27-Jun-15 18:12
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 391 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 18:37
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 473 cladking 27-Jun-15 18:47
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 464 Ulrich 28-Jun-15 15:06
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 427 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 15:30
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 407 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 16:33
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 383 Audrey 28-Jun-15 17:39
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 431 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 18:23
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 475 Ulrich 29-Jun-15 19:20
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 502 Audrey 30-Jun-15 01:26
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 388 Ulrich 30-Jun-15 02:28
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 489 Origyptian 30-Jun-15 03:48
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 439 Ulrich 30-Jun-15 15:53
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 533 Ulrich 30-Jun-15 21:03
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 581 Thanos5150 30-Jun-15 04:12
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 409 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 19:11
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 465 Thanos5150 29-Jun-15 21:25


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