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Thanos5150 wrote:

> Origyptian:
Quote

> One of the ostraca fragments is a communication between
> the quarry and the procurator admitting that the column is
> ready for shipment but the quarry administrator doesn't know
> what quarry it's from. In another fragment the quarryman asks
> the procurator for "more iron" to presumably speed up getting a
> single column ready. What kind of quarry is this that isn't
> equipped to quarry the stones that are on order?
> One that quarries columns obviously. Yes, we in the modern
> world never make mistakes or need more material to complete a
> job. Come on man. But strange you would cite an ostraca that
> clearly refers to quarrying and columns yet still think this is
> not evidence? A broken record, but this make no sense. The
> ostraca speak extensively of the quarrying activities which as
> you unknowingly note the overwhelming majority date to the time
> of Hadrian which is also the most active period of using the
> stone from MC in the Roman Empire.


Note quite. I think you may be overreading. Here is the complete inscription, per Russell (P.212):
Quote

To Antonius Flavianus, prefect, from the foreman and the stonemasons, Sir, greetings. With the help of our Lord Sarapis and the Tyche of Claudianus and your Tyche we announce that we have finished one of the 25 foot columns on the 26th day of Hathyr. If you please, Sir, and with the accord of our master the procurator, if steel and charcoal be sent to us, we shall finish the other one faster, if we can work without hindrance. From the moment you send us (it, and if) all the infidels (will leave us in peace)...(we shall be able to finish it).
I presume the parenthetic phrases are speculation of the translator to replace unreadable inscriptions. There is no reference to quarrying any stone. In fact there is no reference to actually doing any work on a stone at all. "Finished" could simply mean it's packed up on the transporter and ready to roll, but could also mean trimming a pre-existing column to the procurator's current specifications. There is no specific indication of what they intended to use the "steel and charcoal" for -- it makes no mention of whether the "steel" should be chisels, axles, spokes, nails, tie-bands, etc. I'm wondering why he didn't specify what form of "steel" he needed.

And so we are left with the distinct possibility that the "steel and charcoal" may instead be intended simply as bribes to keep the "infidels" away so they can finish their work. To speculate alternative unreadable phrases: "From the moment you send us the bribes, all the infidels will leave us in peace...and we will be allowed to finish our work". After all, there were many reports of the locals causing repeated disruptions in the workflow, and it's certainly logical that the quarry would tend to resist giving away its own precious tools as bribes to keep the locals at bay or else they would soon run out of tools. The generic request for "steel and charcoal" might simply indicate that ANY form form of steel would suffice as a trinket to keep the infidels away. But wasn't M. Claudianus akin to a military operation with a so-called "fort" there that allegedly protected the quarry operation?

And regarding the source of the column:
Quote

You write, Sir, to tell you from which quarry. We do not know the name of the quarry, but it is the quarry far from praesidium, lying towards Porphyrites, which we have given the name 'Philoserapis'. When we were well arrived at the quarry...
And they were ready to ship the 2nd column 19 days later, but apparently it was either a broken/repaired column or the result of conjoining two pre-existing shorter columns to form one longer column which resulted in this inscription:
Quote

We have received your letter, Sir, in which you reproach us about the caurasia [broken stone?] because we have made then conterminous [fitted them together?]. However, as we (had learnt) from your letter that there was iron in the store, we used all the colour-mixing, like the people of old (taught us).

"Steel and charcoal"?
"Infidels"?
"Conterminous"?
"People of old"?

Fascinating material, these ostraca.



______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 1059 JonnyMcA 25-Jun-15 20:33
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 464 Thanos5150 25-Jun-15 23:19
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 498 Corpuscles 26-Jun-15 01:22
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 548 Audrey 26-Jun-15 02:00
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 474 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 02:52
Re: Mons Claudianus Tools 472 MJT 26-Jun-15 17:34
Re: Mons Claudianus Tools 459 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 17:57
Re: Mons Claudianus Tools 531 MJT 26-Jun-15 19:22
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 472 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 04:04
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 456 Audrey 26-Jun-15 05:18
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 461 Jon Ellison 26-Jun-15 10:24
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 494 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 15:26
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 468 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 19:23
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 464 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 06:28
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 393 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 14:50
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 429 Audrey 27-Jun-15 02:20
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 409 Origyptian 27-Jun-15 04:49
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 471 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 02:33
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 501 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 07:06
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 462 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 15:06
Example 493 DScribr 26-Jun-15 18:05
Re: Example 428 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 19:04
Re: Example 408 cladking 26-Jun-15 19:21
Re: Example 449 Brian Patterson 26-Jun-15 19:32
Re: Example 499 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 19:43
Re: Example 449 DScribr 26-Jun-15 22:36
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 438 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 20:24
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 475 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 21:42
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 464 Corpuscles 27-Jun-15 00:19
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 468 Audrey 27-Jun-15 02:26
Same old same old..... 523 DScribr 26-Jun-15 22:48
Re: Same old same old..... 496 Thanos5150 27-Jun-15 05:16
Re: Same old same old..... 460 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 16:08
Re: Same old same old..... 470 Origyptian 27-Jun-15 21:18
Re: Same old same old..... 419 Corpuscles 28-Jun-15 00:10
Re: Same old same old..... 391 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 01:25
Re: Same old same old..... 481 Corpuscles 28-Jun-15 02:52
Re: Same old same old..... 455 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 01:35
Re: Same old same old..... 465 Audrey 28-Jun-15 00:47
Re: Same old same old..... 513 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 02:56
Re: Same old same old..... 442 Merrell 28-Jun-15 13:20
Only One World of True Believers? 468 cladking 28-Jun-15 15:23
Re: Same old same old..... 428 Thanos5150 28-Jun-15 03:27
Re: Same old same old..... 528 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 11:00
Re: Same old same old..... 404 Thanos5150 28-Jun-15 16:53
Re: Same old same old..... 506 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 17:25
Re: Same old same old..... 432 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 18:14
Why change??? 421 DScribr 30-Jun-15 22:19
Re: Why change??? 423 Jon Ellison 30-Jun-15 22:52
Re: Why change??? 456 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 04:27
Re: Why change??? 489 Corpuscles 01-Jul-15 06:11
Re: Why change??? 440 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 13:41
Re: Why change??? 432 Jon Ellison 01-Jul-15 14:08
Re: Why change??? 495 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 15:33
Re: Why change??? 433 Jon Ellison 01-Jul-15 15:38
Re: Why change??? 504 Jon Ellison 01-Jul-15 16:03
Re: Why change??? 465 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 16:21
Re: Why care about the facts??? 417 DScribr 02-Jul-15 19:59
Re: Why care about the facts??? 429 Origyptian 02-Jul-15 20:13
Re: Why care about the facts??? 452 Jon Ellison 02-Jul-15 20:52
Mod Warning > Jon Ellison 459 lukehancock 03-Jul-15 11:20
Re: Why should 'we' care about the facts??? 499 DScribr 06-Jul-15 18:17
Re: Why should 'we' care about the facts??? 462 Corpuscles 07-Jul-15 02:26
Re: Why should 'we' care about the facts??? 463 Origyptian 07-Jul-15 03:26
Willful ignorance 510 DScribr 07-Jul-15 18:02
Re: Why care about the facts??? 460 Jon Ellison 02-Jul-15 22:49
Re: NO change of facts 436 DScribr 02-Jul-15 19:54
Re: NO change of facts 452 Origyptian 02-Jul-15 21:55
Re: Why change??? 401 DScribr 02-Jul-15 19:52
Re: Why change??? 502 Origyptian 02-Jul-15 21:54
"Seems to be..." 423 DScribr 06-Jul-15 18:06
Re: "Seems to be..." 433 Origyptian 06-Jul-15 19:03
Re: "Seems to be..." 345 DScribr 07-Jul-15 17:48
Re: "Seems to be..." 445 Origyptian 07-Jul-15 18:19
Re: "Seems to be..." 431 DScribr 07-Jul-15 18:31
Re: "Seems to be..." 449 Origyptian 07-Jul-15 18:35
Re: "Seems to be..." 450 Jon Ellison 07-Jul-15 20:27
Re: Seems to be a Dbl-standard 462 DScribr 08-Jul-15 17:49
Re: Seems to be a Dbl-standard 398 Origyptian 08-Jul-15 17:55
It IS a Dbl-standard!!! 427 DScribr 08-Jul-15 22:49
Re: It IS a Dbl-standard!!! 596 Jon Ellison 09-Jul-15 00:32
Re: It IS a Dbl-standard!!! 472 Origyptian 09-Jul-15 05:55
Same nonsense-different day... 494 DScribr 09-Jul-15 18:13
Re: Same nonsense-different day... 516 Origyptian 09-Jul-15 18:45
Re: Same nonsense-different day... 457 Jon Ellison 09-Jul-15 19:21
Re: Same nonsense-different day....A MUST READ for all Ori "Fans." 427 DScribr 10-Jul-15 19:29
Re: Same nonsense-different day....A MUST READ for all Ori "Fans." 549 Origyptian 10-Jul-15 21:02
Selective memory loss 572 DScribr 10-Jul-15 22:49
Re: Seems to be a Dbl-standard 434 Jon Ellison 09-Jul-15 01:09
English Lesson 449 randompHactor 27-Jun-15 15:46
Re: English Lesson 476 Thanos5150 27-Jun-15 16:33
Re: English Lesson 485 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 16:55
Re: English Lesson 533 Origyptian 27-Jun-15 20:25
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 474 Corpuscles 26-Jun-15 04:31
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 390 Audrey 26-Jun-15 05:23
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 393 Corpuscles 26-Jun-15 06:43
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 443 Audrey 27-Jun-15 01:28
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 443 Corpuscles 27-Jun-15 01:56
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 484 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 17:00
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 565 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 18:58
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 457 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 20:05
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 467 Origyptian 29-Jun-15 13:39
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 508 Jon Ellison 29-Jun-15 14:11
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 465 Audrey 30-Jun-15 03:01
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 565 Jon Ellison 30-Jun-15 13:20
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 430 DUNE 27-Jun-15 17:01
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 450 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 17:10
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 451 Sirfiroth 27-Jun-15 18:12
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 400 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 18:37
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 484 cladking 27-Jun-15 18:47
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 476 Ulrich 28-Jun-15 15:06
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 436 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 15:30
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 418 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 16:33
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 393 Audrey 28-Jun-15 17:39
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 441 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 18:23
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 484 Ulrich 29-Jun-15 19:20
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 512 Audrey 30-Jun-15 01:26
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 397 Ulrich 30-Jun-15 02:28
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 567 Origyptian 30-Jun-15 03:48
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 447 Ulrich 30-Jun-15 15:53
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 544 Ulrich 30-Jun-15 21:03
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 643 Thanos5150 30-Jun-15 04:12
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 417 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 19:11
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 504 Thanos5150 29-Jun-15 21:25


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