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Brian Patterson wrote:

> Thank you Cladking and Orygyptian,
>
> But I think the evidence IS there.
> Am I wrong in saying that The Ka,
> and Ba, arise from the body of the
> deceased Pharaoh?
>
> I for one Am impressed by
> the evidence thus presented,
> although I think later generations
> used the Tombs for alternative reasons.

The problem is very much that no one knows. The orthodox interpretation could be correct but if it is there are massive inconsistencies and where a proper scientific theory presents predictions, orthodoxy presents mysteries. I have to believe orthodox interpretations are incorrect. How can there be so much evidence for their interpretations as they aver yet they can't come up with any evidence that any great pyramid is a tomb? Why did the builders say they were not tombs?

Earlier in the thread I gave my interpretation of the nature of the ka, ba, and shadow based on what they said and the way I understand their "beliefs". In order for the builders to have always made perfect sense these definitions probably apply. I believe they did make sense so I believe that when they said the pyramid was the ka;

1652a. To say: O Atum-Khepri, when thou didst mount as a hill,
1652b. and didst shine as bnw of the ben (or, benben) in the temple of the "phoenix" in Heliopolis,
1652c. and didst spew out as Shu, and did spit out as Tefnut,
1653a. (then) thou didst put thine arms about them, as the arm(s) of a ka, that thy ka might be in them.
1653b. Atum, so put thine arms about N.,
1653c. about this temple, about this pyramid, as the arm (s) of a ka,
1653d. that the ka of N. may be in it, enduring for ever and ever.

The ka and ba are very elusive concepts in the PT. The "ba-sceptre" appears to have been the weir which provided the water to lift the stone. From their perspective it was the water that allowed the pyramid to be built. It was the concept that water was the ability to make manifest in reality and this is the understanding of the builders. Later people misunderstood the concept in much the same way Egyptologists do and Egyptologists can't see that the meaning of the term changed. They see the ancients from the same perspective and using he same kind of language that later people used. They have a book of the dead perspective of the Pyramid Texts. Even terms are translated to fit the book of the dead as evidenced by the fact that even gods mentioned a single time in the PT are assumed to be the same god from later eras.

Orthodox understanding is not making accurate predictions and is generating mysteries. It is probably wrong and that the pyramids were tombs is central to orthodox understanding of the people who built the great pyramids. That they assume that nothing ever changed is the weak link in how they developed their theories and ended up with ramps and superstitious people.

Whatever the reality was it will require more information. In the meantime the only thing that has changed is that ramps are debunked and the mountain of evidence has been deflated. There is no direct evidence the great pyramids were tombs and the word ramp isn't even attested. It is entirely possible that the ancient people were not superstitious at all.



Man fears the pyramid, time fears man.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Giza Pyramid Tombs? 405 Steve Clayton 12-Oct-14 17:27
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 197 Origyptian 12-Oct-14 18:05
The ka, ba, and shadow as stars. 175 cladking 12-Oct-14 18:25
Re: The ka, ba, and shadow as stars. 202 Origyptian 12-Oct-14 18:38
Re: The ka, ba, and shadow as stars. 190 cladking 12-Oct-14 19:05
Re: The ka, ba, and shadow as stars. 216 Origyptian 12-Oct-14 21:46
Re: The ka, ba, and shadow as stars. 207 cladking 13-Oct-14 00:30
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 230 Skatha 12-Oct-14 18:36
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 198 Lowelldw64 12-Oct-14 18:46
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 212 Lowelldw64 12-Oct-14 19:22
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 212 cladking 12-Oct-14 19:52
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 206 Lowelldw64 12-Oct-14 20:05
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 194 Steve Clayton 12-Oct-14 20:43
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 183 Lowelldw64 12-Oct-14 20:49
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 188 Steve Clayton 12-Oct-14 21:13
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 201 Lowelldw64 12-Oct-14 21:34
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 202 Steve Clayton 12-Oct-14 21:47
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 211 Lowelldw64 13-Oct-14 05:18
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 209 Steve Clayton 13-Oct-14 16:58
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 238 Origyptian 13-Oct-14 17:33
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 200 Steve Clayton 13-Oct-14 18:15
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 201 Origyptian 13-Oct-14 18:34
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 179 Steve Clayton 13-Oct-14 18:45
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 154 Origyptian 13-Oct-14 18:50
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 183 cladking 13-Oct-14 00:36
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 220 Origyptian 12-Oct-14 18:48
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 186 Steve Clayton 12-Oct-14 18:50
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 175 Origyptian 12-Oct-14 19:33
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 250 Thanos5150 13-Oct-14 06:09
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 226 Skatha 13-Oct-14 17:51
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 210 Thanos5150 13-Oct-14 21:54
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 213 Origyptian 13-Oct-14 22:00
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 274 Graham Chase 12-Oct-14 23:29
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 198 Origyptian 12-Oct-14 23:46
10 Facts that Contradict the Pyramid Tomb Theory (PTT) 264 Scott Creighton 13-Oct-14 00:19
Re: 10 Facts that Contradict the Pyramid Tomb Theory (PTT) 262 Origyptian 13-Oct-14 02:53
Re: 10 Facts that Contradict the Pyramid Tomb Theory (PTT) 244 Graham Chase 14-Oct-14 00:18
Re: 10 Facts that Contradict the Pyramid Tomb Theory (PTT) 269 Scott Creighton 14-Oct-14 01:06
Re: 10 Facts that Contradict the Pyramid Tomb Theory (PTT) 210 Audrey 14-Oct-14 06:04
Re: 10 Facts that Contradict the Pyramid Tomb Theory (PTT) 186 Scott Creighton 14-Oct-14 10:28
Re: 10 Facts that Contradict the Pyramid Tomb Theory (PTT) 223 Graham Chase 14-Oct-14 09:47
Re: 10 Facts that Contradict the Pyramid Tomb Theory (PTT) 220 Scott Creighton 14-Oct-14 10:19
Re: 10 Facts that Contradict the Pyramid Tomb Theory (PTT) 194 cladking 14-Oct-14 15:02
Re: 10 Facts that Contradict the Pyramid Tomb Theory (PTT) 199 Graham Chase 14-Oct-14 15:19
Re: 10 Facts that Contradict the Pyramid Tomb Theory (PTT) 210 cladking 14-Oct-14 15:50
Re: 10 Facts that Contradict the Pyramid Tomb Theory (PTT) 212 Graham Chase 14-Oct-14 16:37
Re: 10 Facts that Contradict the Pyramid Tomb Theory (PTT) 191 Origyptian 14-Oct-14 16:44
Re: 10 Facts that Contradict the Pyramid Tomb Theory (PTT) 188 Graham Chase 14-Oct-14 17:59
Re: 10 Facts that Contradict the Pyramid Tomb Theory (PTT) 210 Origyptian 14-Oct-14 18:09
Re: 10 Facts that Contradict the Pyramid Tomb Theory (PTT) 188 cladking 14-Oct-14 17:07
Re: 10 Facts that Contradict the Pyramid Tomb Theory (PTT) 198 Graham Chase 14-Oct-14 18:21
Re: 10 Facts that Contradict the Pyramid Tomb Theory (PTT) 224 cladking 14-Oct-14 19:03
Belzoni's texts 187 Skatha 18-Oct-14 16:48
Re: Belzoni's texts 218 Scott Creighton 19-Oct-14 15:15
Re: Belzoni's texts 193 Sirfiroth 19-Oct-14 15:36
Re: Belzoni's texts 214 Scott Creighton 19-Oct-14 16:05
Re: Belzoni's texts 222 Sirfiroth 19-Oct-14 17:13
Re: Belzoni's texts 203 Scott Creighton 19-Oct-14 17:27
Re: Belzoni's texts 242 Skatha 19-Oct-14 17:00
Re: Belzoni's texts 213 Scott Creighton 19-Oct-14 18:31
???? 189 Skatha 20-Oct-14 17:31
Re: ???? 226 cladking 20-Oct-14 18:03
Re: ???? 201 Scott Creighton 20-Oct-14 19:07
Re: ???? 226 Origyptian 20-Oct-14 20:26
Re: Belzoni's texts 195 Steve Clayton 19-Oct-14 18:19
Re: Belzoni's texts 217 Morten 19-Oct-14 21:14
Re: 10 Facts that Contradict the Pyramid Tomb Theory (PTT) 212 Thanos5150 14-Oct-14 02:28
Re: 10 Facts that Contradict the Pyramid Tomb Theory (PTT) 215 Audrey 14-Oct-14 06:01
Re: 10 Facts that Contradict the Pyramid Tomb Theory (PTT) 259 Thanos5150 14-Oct-14 06:31
Re: 10 Facts that Contradict the Pyramid Tomb Theory (PTT) 216 Origyptian 14-Oct-14 09:46
Re: 10 Facts that Contradict the Pyramid Tomb Theory (PTT) 253 Graham Chase 14-Oct-14 10:34
Re: 10 Facts that Contradict the Pyramid Tomb Theory (PTT) 201 Audrey 15-Oct-14 03:09
Re: 10 Facts that Contradict the Pyramid Tomb Theory (PTT) 216 Origyptian 15-Oct-14 04:24
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 183 cladking 13-Oct-14 02:18
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 221 Brian Patterson 13-Oct-14 02:55
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 189 Origyptian 13-Oct-14 03:05
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 198 cladking 13-Oct-14 03:24
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 213 Brian Patterson 13-Oct-14 03:33
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 233 cladking 13-Oct-14 04:21
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 185 Origyptian 13-Oct-14 05:13
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 197 Lowelldw64 13-Oct-14 05:55
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 206 Thunderbird 14-Oct-14 00:13
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 208 Steve Clayton 15-Oct-14 00:22
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 195 Thunderbird 15-Oct-14 02:37
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 210 Audrey 15-Oct-14 02:53
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 194 Brian Patterson 14-Oct-14 04:46
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 196 Martin Stower 16-Oct-14 19:59
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 154 Steve Clayton 17-Oct-14 18:28
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 214 Martin Stower 17-Oct-14 21:45
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 184 cladking 17-Oct-14 21:58
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 173 Martin Stower 17-Oct-14 22:00
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 178 cladking 17-Oct-14 22:08
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 203 Origyptian 19-Oct-14 20:03
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 185 cladking 19-Oct-14 21:07
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 227 Steve Clayton 17-Oct-14 22:27
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 180 Thanos5150 17-Oct-14 23:37
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 211 Origyptian 18-Oct-14 15:18
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 183 cladking 18-Oct-14 15:40
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 225 Martin Stower 19-Oct-14 13:50
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 183 Martin Stower 19-Oct-14 13:35
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 188 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-14 22:26
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 201 cladking 17-Oct-14 23:57
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 184 Graham Chase 18-Oct-14 10:55
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 177 Steve Clayton 18-Oct-14 14:08
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 258 Graham Chase 18-Oct-14 15:10
The More Things Change... 179 cladking 18-Oct-14 15:43
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 195 cladking 18-Oct-14 15:07
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 207 Steve Clayton 18-Oct-14 16:05
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 196 cladking 18-Oct-14 16:12
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 211 Graham Chase 18-Oct-14 16:25
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 209 cladking 18-Oct-14 17:08
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 222 Skatha 19-Oct-14 06:18
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 198 Sirfiroth 19-Oct-14 14:26
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 177 Skatha 19-Oct-14 17:11
Now be still, men (people), hear... 248 cladking 19-Oct-14 19:11
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 196 cladking 20-Oct-14 16:18
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 205 cladking 19-Oct-14 15:03
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 205 Skatha 19-Oct-14 17:13
The sad reality. 205 cladking 19-Oct-14 18:44
Re: Giza Pyramid Tombs? 196 cladking 20-Oct-14 16:36


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