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Hi Dune..

Thanks for the reply.
Yes I too noticed Petrie's comments regarding the whitewash.
He states that the whitewash and the red lines were applied during the building. Which is understandable. He also mentions "black lines" which do not appear to be there today.

First the whitewash issue. If the red marks had been applied in the quarry, would that not indicate that the whitewash had also been applied before the red lines, therefore also in the quarry. This seems rather odd to me?? The whitewash is clearly underneath the red lines.

Yes there are clearly creamy coloured marks over the red ochre.
Initially I put this down to "specular highlights" resulting from the photographic flash lighting. However I now feel that they may be abrasion marks indicating that the block was abraded post painting.

As for plaster and whitewash I'm guessing that whitewash was simply diluted plaster. I have had to largly ignore this as I cannot find any firm evidence for post Vyse repairs. I have seen repairs mentioned but nothing that can be proven.

What you are suggesting, in that someone had applied plaster over the red ochre marks, is what forgers call "distressing". In other words trying to make something look older than it really is.
It is a possibility but I'm not sure that the photographic evidence we have at this time can prove one way or the other.
It is a good point.

I also considered the idea of "cleaning" or abrasion of some sort of the whitewash to reveal the underlying rock colour. Question is how was this done without abrading away the red marks.??

So to sum up the above, it appears to me that the block was first installed, whitewashed. It was then cleaned or abraded, and finally the cartouche was added.
What happened where and when is yet to be determined.

So my view at present is that due to the lack of concise documentation regarding possible repairs and modern interference for whatever reason.
At this time it is impossible to determine the age of this artwork.
However that does not mean that it should not be questioned.
I will continue to question it.
If it were a valuable artwork I would highly recommend that it be subjected to proper forensic analyses.
I can't for the life of me understand why it hasn't been already...

There are a number of features that are clearly defined in the photos, which I believe are not the result of photographic aberrations, digital artifacts or manipulation.

For example in your photograph, if you look closely at the intersection of the cartouche frame and the reed. It is clear that the frame was painted after and partially overlapping the reed. We call this "modulation", where one brush stroke interferes with a preceding brush stroke.
The brush stroke which is effectively a "fingerprint" demonstrates that the frame was painted from bottom right to bottom left in one continuous mark/loop. This is hard evidence for the way in which the frame was painted.

Lastly I have been looking at, and among many other issues, the splashes to the lower left of the cartouche. I'd be interested in your opinion.
Please bear in mind that a splash has a very different signature to that of an applied dot.

And also I must apologise for not uploading images.I work in this field and it would be very unethical of me to use an image in any way unless I had written permission from the author.
Although you can.. And it is OK for me to comment on them.



Post Edited (10-Sep-14 12:46)

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Subject Views Written By Posted
About Those Two Dots.... 486 Scott Creighton 06-Sep-14 10:54
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 199 Jon Ellison 06-Sep-14 12:15
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 138 Skatha 06-Sep-14 17:24
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 199 Origyptian 06-Sep-14 18:12
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 212 Jon Ellison 06-Sep-14 18:36
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 176 sfbey 06-Sep-14 22:29
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 213 Scott Creighton 06-Sep-14 23:58
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 206 Origyptian 07-Sep-14 00:12
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 199 Jon Ellison 07-Sep-14 01:22
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 245 Origyptian 07-Sep-14 03:52
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 212 Jon Ellison 07-Sep-14 01:38
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 242 Audrey 07-Sep-14 06:21
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 275 Martin Stower 10-Sep-14 00:22
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 207 Jon Ellison 07-Sep-14 08:09
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 222 Scott Creighton 07-Sep-14 10:48
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 175 Audrey 07-Sep-14 17:44
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 209 Scott Creighton 07-Sep-14 18:59
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 261 sfbey 07-Sep-14 19:02
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 235 Scott Creighton 07-Sep-14 22:35
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 216 sfbey 08-Sep-14 00:35
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 248 Scott Creighton 08-Sep-14 10:09
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 201 Audrey 08-Sep-14 00:44
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 231 eyeofhorus33 08-Sep-14 20:09
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 230 Origyptian 08-Sep-14 20:27
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 258 eyeofhorus33 08-Sep-14 20:33
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 190 Origyptian 08-Sep-14 21:12
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 182 eyeofhorus33 08-Sep-14 21:19
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 197 Origyptian 08-Sep-14 21:29
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 223 eyeofhorus33 08-Sep-14 21:41
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 194 Origyptian 08-Sep-14 21:52
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 154 eyeofhorus33 08-Sep-14 22:04
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 160 Origyptian 08-Sep-14 22:35
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 168 eyeofhorus33 08-Sep-14 22:42
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 207 Origyptian 08-Sep-14 22:56
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 193 Audrey 09-Sep-14 01:01
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 195 Jon Ellison 09-Sep-14 01:37
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 247 eyeofhorus33 09-Sep-14 17:54
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 145 Origyptian 09-Sep-14 18:23
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 166 eyeofhorus33 09-Sep-14 19:02
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 203 Origyptian 09-Sep-14 19:32
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 221 eyeofhorus33 09-Sep-14 20:43
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 201 Jon Ellison 09-Sep-14 20:55
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 223 Morten 09-Sep-14 21:59
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 225 Jon Ellison 09-Sep-14 22:12
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 232 Origyptian 09-Sep-14 22:36
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 202 Jon Ellison 09-Sep-14 22:42
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 179 Origyptian 09-Sep-14 22:29
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 212 Jon Ellison 09-Sep-14 22:35
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 182 Origyptian 09-Sep-14 22:48
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 198 Jon Ellison 09-Sep-14 23:04
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 219 Jon Ellison 10-Sep-14 08:45
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 200 DUNE 10-Sep-14 09:52
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 243 Jon Ellison 10-Sep-14 11:47
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 216 DUNE 10-Sep-14 13:17
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 212 Jon Ellison 10-Sep-14 13:36
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 202 DUNE 10-Sep-14 14:14
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 204 Jon Ellison 10-Sep-14 16:49
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 142 DUNE 10-Sep-14 17:26
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 200 Origyptian 10-Sep-14 18:03
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 237 Scott Creighton 10-Sep-14 18:31
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 231 Jon Ellison 10-Sep-14 18:49
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 245 Scott Creighton 10-Sep-14 18:54
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 220 Jon Ellison 10-Sep-14 19:12
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 214 Origyptian 10-Sep-14 19:52
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 212 Jon Ellison 10-Sep-14 19:35
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 208 Origyptian 10-Sep-14 19:37
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 238 DUNE 10-Sep-14 19:54
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 235 Origyptian 10-Sep-14 20:06
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 255 Origyptian 10-Sep-14 19:34
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 240 Origyptian 10-Sep-14 15:57
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 207 DUNE 10-Sep-14 16:39
could be a result of overprocessing the image 210 Skatha 10-Sep-14 17:35
Re: could be a result of overprocessing the image 201 Jon Ellison 10-Sep-14 17:40
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 224 Origyptian 09-Sep-14 22:26
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 210 Morten 08-Sep-14 23:03
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 212 Origyptian 08-Sep-14 23:05
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 214 Morten 08-Sep-14 23:11
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 199 eyeofhorus33 08-Sep-14 23:15
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 276 sfbey 08-Sep-14 23:18
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 195 Origyptian 09-Sep-14 00:03
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 218 Jon Ellison 09-Sep-14 00:30
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 244 Origyptian 09-Sep-14 00:03
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 225 Origyptian 09-Sep-14 00:01
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 209 eyeofhorus33 08-Sep-14 23:13
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 187 Audrey 09-Sep-14 00:52
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 225 Origyptian 09-Sep-14 05:50
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 205 Origyptian 08-Sep-14 21:15
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 240 sfbey 08-Sep-14 21:23
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 237 eyeofhorus33 08-Sep-14 21:26
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 215 Origyptian 08-Sep-14 21:30
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 207 eyeofhorus33 08-Sep-14 21:47
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 227 Origyptian 08-Sep-14 22:06
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 215 eyeofhorus33 08-Sep-14 22:21
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 242 Origyptian 08-Sep-14 22:44
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 182 sfbey 08-Sep-14 22:04
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 197 Audrey 08-Sep-14 21:59
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 219 sfbey 08-Sep-14 22:11
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 126 eyeofhorus33 08-Sep-14 21:25
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 184 Audrey 08-Sep-14 21:24
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 207 eyeofhorus33 08-Sep-14 21:28
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 196 Audrey 08-Sep-14 22:02
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 165 eyeofhorus33 08-Sep-14 22:13
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 152 Origyptian 08-Sep-14 22:40
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 161 Thanos5150 11-Sep-14 05:11
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 176 Origyptian 11-Sep-14 13:51
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 197 Thanos5150 11-Sep-14 16:47
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 191 Origyptian 11-Sep-14 20:27
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 288 Thanos5150 11-Sep-14 21:28
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 198 Origyptian 11-Sep-14 22:46
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 220 Jon Ellison 11-Sep-14 22:55
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 175 Origyptian 11-Sep-14 23:34
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 211 Jon Ellison 11-Sep-14 23:54
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 186 Origyptian 12-Sep-14 00:07
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 193 Jon Ellison 12-Sep-14 00:17
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 199 Origyptian 12-Sep-14 00:27
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 208 Jon Ellison 12-Sep-14 00:39
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 213 Origyptian 12-Sep-14 01:12
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 185 Jon Ellison 12-Sep-14 06:26
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 194 Origyptian 12-Sep-14 15:49
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 196 Jon Ellison 12-Sep-14 07:22
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 170 Origyptian 12-Sep-14 15:58
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 147 DUNE 12-Sep-14 16:07
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 188 Jon Ellison 12-Sep-14 16:13
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 190 Jon Ellison 12-Sep-14 16:19
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 109 Origyptian 12-Sep-14 16:48
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 219 DUNE 12-Sep-14 17:07
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 210 DUNE 12-Sep-14 17:45
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 210 Origyptian 12-Sep-14 18:01
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 183 DUNE 12-Sep-14 18:16
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 205 Jon Ellison 12-Sep-14 18:25
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 205 Origyptian 12-Sep-14 18:53
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 262 Jon Ellison 12-Sep-14 19:15
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 202 Origyptian 12-Sep-14 19:58
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 181 Jon Ellison 12-Sep-14 20:27
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 217 Origyptian 12-Sep-14 20:58
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 205 Origyptian 12-Sep-14 16:35
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 201 Jon Ellison 12-Sep-14 18:05
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 226 Thanos5150 11-Sep-14 23:59
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 188 Origyptian 12-Sep-14 00:16
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 180 Thanos5150 12-Sep-14 00:27
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 179 Origyptian 12-Sep-14 00:31
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 225 Audrey 09-Sep-14 02:04
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 184 Jon Ellison 09-Sep-14 10:56
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 190 Origyptian 08-Sep-14 22:13
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 219 Jon Ellison 07-Sep-14 11:53
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 185 Origyptian 07-Sep-14 17:21
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 235 Jon Ellison 07-Sep-14 18:15
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 166 Origyptian 07-Sep-14 18:24
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 198 Jon Ellison 07-Sep-14 18:27
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 226 Jon Ellison 07-Sep-14 18:52
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 204 Origyptian 07-Sep-14 19:08
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 165 Jon Ellison 07-Sep-14 19:12
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 195 DScribr 07-Sep-14 22:10
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 212 Origyptian 07-Sep-14 22:53
Could you link to some? 209 Skatha 08-Sep-14 06:17
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 199 DScribr 08-Sep-14 08:41
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 220 Jon Ellison 08-Sep-14 09:26
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 166 Origyptian 08-Sep-14 15:00
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 193 DScribr 08-Sep-14 15:13
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 252 Jon Ellison 08-Sep-14 15:45
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 173 DScribr 08-Sep-14 15:58
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 153 Jon Ellison 08-Sep-14 16:11
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 94 Origyptian 08-Sep-14 16:19
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 186 Audrey 08-Sep-14 21:15
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 196 Martin Stower 10-Sep-14 00:27
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 212 Scott Creighton 10-Sep-14 10:19
...Vyse is showing THREE dots... 198 Skatha 10-Sep-14 15:31
Re: ...Vyse is showing THREE dots... 182 Origyptian 10-Sep-14 15:39
Re: ...Vyse is showing THREE dots... 250 Scott Creighton 10-Sep-14 15:55
Re: ...Vyse is showing THREE dots... 180 Skatha 10-Sep-14 17:33
Re: ...Vyse is showing THREE dots... 195 Scott Creighton 10-Sep-14 18:09
Re: ...Vyse is showing THREE dots... 168 Skatha 10-Sep-14 23:54
Re: ...Vyse is showing THREE dots... 210 Scott Creighton 11-Sep-14 08:49
Re: ...Vyse is showing THREE dots... 180 Skatha 11-Sep-14 15:06


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