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Reviewing Creighton’s article in the light of Creighton’s response, I see that I did indeed miss a couple of things, both of them on the final page (really two thirds of a page) of the article. The more important of these is this: Creighton is aware of the caption “in Campbell’s Chamber” (next to the smaller drawing).

Here, for reference, is an image of (part of) the relevant page, with the captions ringed in blue and the “cross-reference marks” ringed in red:





Creighton’s Figure 2 is his own drawing of the drawing captioned “in Campbell’s Chamber”. We may note in passing (as here) that Creighton has also drawn the reference mark, having evidently mistaken it for part of the inscription. Creighton’s Figure 2 is connected to the image of the original by the usual apparatus in this article of red dotted lines.

What does Creighton say about this?


“. . . The second cartouche (Figure 2), also found by Vyse, is presented only in his handwritten journal (he didn’t publish this) and has clearly been found somewhere else since it is slightly different from the cartouche in the Great Pyramid; i.e., it has no horizontal lines in the small circle on the right. Had the cartouche in Figure 2 been copied from the cartouche in Campbell’s Chamber, then Vyse most surely would have copied the small lines into the plain circle that we observe in the circle of Figure 1. That he did not copy these lines tells us he did not observe such lines in the circle of this cartouche in Figure 2, which implies, of course, that the cartouche in Figure 2 is from a different source than the one in Campbell’s Chamber (Figure 1).”

Come again?

“. . . the cartouche in Figure 2 is from a different source than the one in Campbell’s Chamber . . .”

I will pose this as a question. Has Creighton not stated and argued, in the clearest possible terms, that the inscription represented by the smaller drawing, the one captioned “in Campbell’s Chamber”, is not the one in Campbell’s Chamber? Never mind the sheer eccentricity of this, which is merely a good predictor of what is to come.

Would not anyone reading this and looking at the evidence assume (and this on a charitable reading) that Creighton had overlooked the caption? Had simply not seen it?

Imagine my surprise, then, on reading this (on the final page of Creighton’s article):

“. . . On June 16 . . . he draws the plain blank disc again from the Chamber (we know this because of the two dots under the snake and also because Vyse writes alongside “in Campbell’s Chamber”).”

That’s right, folks. He’s talking about the same drawing. Saying that the caption “in Campbell’s Chamber” is next to it tells us so.

What is Creighton trying to pull here?

On a charitable reading, we would say that Creighton was very, very confused when he wrote this. Well, charity is exhausted and I’m going to say what I think.

Creighton knew perfectly well that the drawing is captioned “in Campbell’s Chamber” when he denied that it was of the inscription in Campbell’s Chamber. He chose (in this earlier part of the article) not to mention the caption. We have to ask why. It was certainly relevant — relevant in the sense that it flatly contradicts what Creighton says. The answer “which suggests itself” is that it didn’t suit his purpose — didn’t suit what he was trying to put over to (or put over on) the reader.

When it suits him, the drawing is of an inscription found outside the pyramid and when it suits him, the same drawing is of an inscription in Campbell’s Chamber, on grounds of the caption “in Campbell’s Chamber” (which hasn’t just magically appeared but was there all along).

Creighton alleges that Vyse contradicted himself. Well, sorry, no, Creighton, you don’t prove self-contradiction by engaging in it yourself. That’s not how it works.

Whatever Creighton’s murky thought process, hia argument is self-contradictory — and self-contradiction is grounds in LOGIC for chucking the whole thing out without further discussion. I suggest we do so.

M.



Post Edited (03-Jun-14 22:42)

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Further comments on Creighton’s article [Thread Closed] 1097 Martin Stower 23-May-14 00:06
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 621 drew 23-May-14 04:09
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 725 Martin Stower 23-May-14 09:32
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 699 Skatha 23-May-14 04:46
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 662 Martin Stower 24-May-14 19:11
Desperate 654 LonelyAngel 23-May-14 13:11
Re: Desperate 704 Martin Stower 23-May-14 13:46
Mod Note > LonelyAngel – Reminder 722 Dr. Troglodyte 23-May-14 17:19
Re: Desperate 673 eyeofhorus33 23-May-14 17:56
Re: Desperate 691 Martin Stower 23-May-14 23:12
Re: Desperate 673 LonelyAngel 25-May-14 14:15
Re: Desperate 647 Brian Patterson 25-May-14 15:30
Re: Desperate 670 Martin Stower 25-May-14 15:48
Re: Desperate 647 Ahatmose 25-May-14 16:04
Re: Desperate 618 Martin Stower 25-May-14 16:56
Re: Desperate 743 Ahatmose 25-May-14 17:13
Re: Desperate 692 LonelyAngel 25-May-14 20:24
Re: Desperate 717 Martin Stower 26-May-14 00:19
Re: Desperate 629 cladking 25-May-14 22:30
Re: Desperate 583 eyeofhorus33 25-May-14 17:13
Re: Desperate 630 LonelyAngel 25-May-14 20:51
Re: Desperate 687 Martin Stower 25-May-14 22:47
Re: Desperate 609 eyeofhorus33 26-May-14 08:35
Further comments II 1265 Martin Stower 24-May-14 18:20
Re: Further comments II 624 Thanos5150 24-May-14 19:31
Re: Further comments II 630 Martin Stower 24-May-14 19:51
Re: Further comments II 658 Thanos5150 25-May-14 01:35
Re: Further comments II 597 drew 25-May-14 03:47
Re: Further comments II 693 eyeofhorus33 25-May-14 10:01
Re: Further comments II 644 Martin Stower 25-May-14 12:05
Re: Further comments II 694 Martin Stower 25-May-14 12:01
Further comments III 1203 Martin Stower 26-May-14 02:14
Re: Further comments III 664 Thanos5150 27-May-14 17:06
Re: Further comments III 673 Martin Stower 27-May-14 19:12
Re: Further comments III 653 Thanos5150 27-May-14 22:34
Re: Further comments III 668 Martin Stower 27-May-14 22:52
Re: Further comments III 673 Dr. Troglodyte 27-May-14 23:04
Re: Further comments III 657 Thanos5150 27-May-14 23:23
Re: Further comments III 638 Martin Stower 27-May-14 23:44
Re: Further comments III 618 Thanos5150 27-May-14 23:54
Re: Further comments III 659 Martin Stower 28-May-14 00:08
Re: Further comments III 632 Thanos5150 28-May-14 00:59
Re: Further comments III 683 Martin Stower 29-May-14 00:00
Re: Further comments III 692 Skatha 30-May-14 00:16
Re: Further comments III 635 Martin Stower 30-May-14 09:57
Re: Further comments III 660 Thanos5150 30-May-14 17:43
Re: Further comments III 684 randompHactor 30-May-14 18:17
Re: Further comments III 576 Martin Stower 30-May-14 19:25
Re: Further comments III 652 Thanos5150 30-May-14 20:21
Re: Further comments III 644 Martin Stower 30-May-14 20:43
Re: Further comments III 619 Thanos5150 30-May-14 20:56
Re: Further comments III 1068 Martin Stower 30-May-14 21:15
Re: Further comments III 730 Thanos5150 31-May-14 00:28
Re: Further comments III 689 AmadeusD 31-May-14 02:42
Re: Further comments III 670 Martin Stower 31-May-14 07:56
Re: Further comments III 627 sfbey 30-May-14 21:16
Re: Further comments III 667 Dr. Troglodyte 30-May-14 20:12
Re: Further comments III 694 Audrey 30-May-14 05:34
Re: Further comments III 635 Martin Stower 30-May-14 09:25
Re: Further comments III 669 Martin Stower 27-May-14 22:35
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 715 D-Archer 27-May-14 19:15
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 687 Martin Stower 27-May-14 19:25
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 664 D-Archer 27-May-14 19:32
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 686 Martin Stower 27-May-14 22:29
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 709 D-Archer 28-May-14 10:25
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 773 Martin Stower 28-May-14 13:10
Drawn...and quartered : ) 649 Thunderbird 30-May-14 03:52
Re: Drawn...and quartered : ) 676 Martin Stower 30-May-14 12:49
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 674 k_mand 30-May-14 16:48
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 672 Martin Stower 30-May-14 19:31
What have you missed? 614 Thunderbird 30-May-14 22:49
Re: What have you missed? 702 Martin Stower 30-May-14 23:09
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 682 k_mand 31-May-14 04:14
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 636 Martin Stower 31-May-14 08:17
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 637 k_mand 01-Jun-14 02:21
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 578 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 10:38
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 627 Thanos5150 01-Jun-14 17:01
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 624 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 19:02
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 683 Thanos5150 02-Jun-14 02:26
The cult of Khufu 700 Thunderbird 02-Jun-14 03:40
I’d buy that for a dollar! 643 Martin Stower 30-May-14 21:53
Not worth it ... 759 Ahatmose 31-May-14 01:55
Re: Not worth it ... 683 Brian Patterson 31-May-14 04:04
The Mud Slinging Has Started 652 Scott Creighton 31-May-14 09:17
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 727 Ahatmose 31-May-14 11:47
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 638 Scott Creighton 31-May-14 12:00
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 654 Martin Stower 31-May-14 12:45
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 629 Ahatmose 31-May-14 23:14
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 626 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 00:54
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 692 Audrey 01-Jun-14 05:04
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 672 Thunderbird 01-Jun-14 06:06
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 574 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 10:35
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 681 Audrey 01-Jun-14 17:43
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 654 eyeofhorus33 01-Jun-14 19:35
Follow the cult follow the... 530 Thunderbird 01-Jun-14 21:11
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 694 Audrey 03-Jun-14 03:54
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 684 eyeofhorus33 03-Jun-14 22:33
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 694 Audrey 05-Jun-14 02:07
Re: The Ring of the gods 693 Thunderbird 04-Jun-14 15:55
Re: The Ring of the gods 645 Audrey 05-Jun-14 05:36
Re: Mystery of the Gods 676 Thunderbird 02-Jun-14 01:39
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 695 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 10:33
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 637 Audrey 01-Jun-14 19:38
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 707 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 20:44
Arches and Chambers 581 loveritas 01-Jun-14 22:51
Re: Arches and Chambers 684 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 00:03
Definitely Puzzled 663 loveritas 02-Jun-14 11:30
Re: Definitely Puzzled 643 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 13:05
Re: Definitely Puzzled 598 Audrey 03-Jun-14 01:38
Re: Definitely Puzzled 645 Scott Creighton 03-Jun-14 01:56
Re: Definitely Puzzled 694 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 10:40
Re: Definitely Puzzled 684 Scott Creighton 03-Jun-14 11:21
Re: Definitely Puzzled 732 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 13:02
Re: Definitely Puzzled 693 Scott Creighton 03-Jun-14 13:34
Re: Definitely Puzzled 626 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 13:56
Re: Definitely Puzzled 645 Scott Creighton 03-Jun-14 14:03
How it really happened 1559 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 16:15
Re: How it really happened 735 Scott Creighton 03-Jun-14 17:25
Re: How it really happened 898 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 20:18
Re: Definitely Puzzled 663 Audrey 05-Jun-14 01:54
Re: Definitely Puzzled 667 Merrell 03-Jun-14 07:41
Re: Definitely Puzzled 633 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 10:32
Re: Definitely Puzzled 680 loveritas 03-Jun-14 11:12
Re: Definitely Puzzled 684 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 13:05
Re: Definitely Puzzled 653 loveritas 03-Jun-14 23:48
Re: Arches and Chambers 655 Merrell 02-Jun-14 11:36
Re: Arches and Chambers 666 Dr. Troglodyte 02-Jun-14 16:40
Re: Arches and Chambers 626 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 18:02
Re: Arches and Chambers 697 Dr. Troglodyte 02-Jun-14 18:29
Re: Arches and Chambers 644 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 20:46
Re: Forced entry 630 Thunderbird 02-Jun-14 06:31
Going Inside The Pyramid 678 loveritas 02-Jun-14 12:07
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 641 Audrey 01-Jun-14 23:08
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 656 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 00:02
Medjedu 717 loveritas 04-Jun-14 11:39
Wilkinson? 650 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 00:25
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 803 Martin Stower 31-May-14 12:44
Perring and Vyse 1029 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 00:33
Reference marks 689 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 14:01
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 669 Brian Patterson 03-Jun-14 04:06
Mod Warning > Messrs. Creighton and Stower 613 Dr. Troglodyte 03-Jun-14 16:51
How it really happened 617 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 16:54
From caption to self-contradiction 671 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 22:38
Why the drawings? 1173 Martin Stower 04-Jun-14 22:14
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 688 DUNE 04-Jun-14 22:46
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 620 sfbey 04-Jun-14 23:02
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 784 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 08:50
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 704 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 09:42
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 771 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 10:08
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 689 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 10:59
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 668 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 11:04
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 605 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 11:42
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 669 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 11:48
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 683 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 12:04
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 598 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 12:16
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 701 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 12:27
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 613 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 12:30
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 688 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 12:48
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 664 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 12:56
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 630 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 13:49
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 593 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 14:05
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 726 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:12
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 659 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 15:22
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 605 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:32
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 637 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 15:45
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 626 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:50
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 612 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 15:52
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 731 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 16:02
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 683 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 16:04
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 558 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 16:38
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 628 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 16:48
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 693 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 16:56
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 605 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 17:02
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 685 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 17:18
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 618 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 17:23
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 644 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 17:27
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 662 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 17:29
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 652 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 17:51
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 631 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 17:55
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 694 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 18:16
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 618 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 18:21
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 605 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 18:23
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 651 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 18:29
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 674 eyeofhorus33 05-Jun-14 17:45
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 631 cladking 05-Jun-14 16:11
Re: Ping for Audrey and Loveritas 611 Thunderbird 05-Jun-14 19:11
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 615 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 14:20
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 609 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 14:32
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 567 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:30
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 599 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 15:40
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 512 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:45
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 546 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 16:01
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 639 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 16:33
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 602 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:42
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 599 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 16:04
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 632 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 16:45
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 681 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 16:53
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 649 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 17:14
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 654 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 17:44
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 556 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 18:03
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 698 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 18:18
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 690 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 18:21
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 619 Audrey 05-Jun-14 21:22
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 697 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 21:37
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 573 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 22:05
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 709 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 23:04
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 814 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 23:25
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 776 Martin Stower 06-Jun-14 11:44
Mod Warning #2 > Scott Creighton 635 lukehancock 06-Jun-14 14:51
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 604 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 20:22
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 581 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 18:10
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 572 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 18:19
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 641 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 21:10
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 627 Audrey 05-Jun-14 21:29
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 672 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 21:47
Mod Warning #3 > Ahatmose 642 lukehancock 06-Jun-14 14:50
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 643 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 16:06
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 587 Martin Stower 04-Jun-14 23:20
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 733 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 10:01
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 750 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 11:14
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 670 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 11:25
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 882 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 11:39
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 690 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 11:48
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 664 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 12:00
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 715 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 12:14
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 628 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 14:34
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 557 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 14:58
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 639 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 16:10
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 600 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 16:13
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 624 eyeofhorus33 05-Jun-14 18:25
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 645 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 21:17


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