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Martin Stower wrote:

> Thanos5150 wrote:

> Perhaps you’d like first to explain how careful examination of
> evidence which Creighton examined carelessly is a rigmarole?

I was referring to the rigmarole that is this topic in general....

> Have you read it? Have you read Creighton’s article?

No. The cliff notes of these threads are suffice for my limited interest. The authenticity of this one cartouche is not the end-all-be-all as there are 20+ other lines of graffiti in these chambers whose provenance is not in question, ergo, someone wrote a bunch of graffiti on these blocks using red ochre paint at the time the relieving chambers were constructed/repaired which was obviously not 10,000BC or the like. It stands to reason to establish a true context for the one we must understand them all.

> Do you
> understand the point I’m making?

Of course, but I have no interest in getting caught up in the negativity that ensues when this topic is brought up, for one, but also for me the point is moot until the context of the other translations can be established.

> Vyse’s journal has no translations. Vyse’s knowledge of
> hieroglyphs was that of an intelligent layman with a guidebook
> in his hand: next to none.
> He left all that to Samuel Birch.
> It was largely beyond Birch. The most advanced contemporary
> opinion was that of Lepsius, who examined Hill’s facsimiles in
> 1838. He didn’t get everything right. Lots of this stuff was
> not adequately understood until years later.
>
> The other two well-attested crew names in the pyramid of Khufu
> are, in arguable translation, “Followers of the powerful White
> Crown of Khnum-khufu” and “Pure ones of Horus Medjedu”.

I knew this about Vyse, but thought he might have catalogued them in list form and attempted to translate them with his reference. I have seen many references to Birch so I suppose he would be the place to start my search. Yes, I am aware of the others, though hardly "uncontested" as to who they actually refer to, either the king or god, but like I said there there are nearly 20 others. It stands to reason we should know what they say to give context to the whole.

Thanks anyways, but if you can think of any particular reference that may be helpful I would appreciate it.



Post Edited (25-May-14 01:39)

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Further comments on Creighton’s article [Thread Closed] 1094 Martin Stower 23-May-14 00:06
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 617 drew 23-May-14 04:09
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 721 Martin Stower 23-May-14 09:32
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 695 Skatha 23-May-14 04:46
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 658 Martin Stower 24-May-14 19:11
Desperate 646 LonelyAngel 23-May-14 13:11
Re: Desperate 701 Martin Stower 23-May-14 13:46
Mod Note > LonelyAngel – Reminder 720 Dr. Troglodyte 23-May-14 17:19
Re: Desperate 670 eyeofhorus33 23-May-14 17:56
Re: Desperate 686 Martin Stower 23-May-14 23:12
Re: Desperate 669 LonelyAngel 25-May-14 14:15
Re: Desperate 643 Brian Patterson 25-May-14 15:30
Re: Desperate 666 Martin Stower 25-May-14 15:48
Re: Desperate 643 Ahatmose 25-May-14 16:04
Re: Desperate 614 Martin Stower 25-May-14 16:56
Re: Desperate 739 Ahatmose 25-May-14 17:13
Re: Desperate 686 LonelyAngel 25-May-14 20:24
Re: Desperate 714 Martin Stower 26-May-14 00:19
Re: Desperate 626 cladking 25-May-14 22:30
Re: Desperate 580 eyeofhorus33 25-May-14 17:13
Re: Desperate 626 LonelyAngel 25-May-14 20:51
Re: Desperate 683 Martin Stower 25-May-14 22:47
Re: Desperate 606 eyeofhorus33 26-May-14 08:35
Further comments II 1260 Martin Stower 24-May-14 18:20
Re: Further comments II 621 Thanos5150 24-May-14 19:31
Re: Further comments II 626 Martin Stower 24-May-14 19:51
Re: Further comments II 653 Thanos5150 25-May-14 01:35
Re: Further comments II 594 drew 25-May-14 03:47
Re: Further comments II 685 eyeofhorus33 25-May-14 10:01
Re: Further comments II 640 Martin Stower 25-May-14 12:05
Re: Further comments II 691 Martin Stower 25-May-14 12:01
Further comments III 1200 Martin Stower 26-May-14 02:14
Re: Further comments III 659 Thanos5150 27-May-14 17:06
Re: Further comments III 670 Martin Stower 27-May-14 19:12
Re: Further comments III 649 Thanos5150 27-May-14 22:34
Re: Further comments III 659 Martin Stower 27-May-14 22:52
Re: Further comments III 668 Dr. Troglodyte 27-May-14 23:04
Re: Further comments III 653 Thanos5150 27-May-14 23:23
Re: Further comments III 634 Martin Stower 27-May-14 23:44
Re: Further comments III 614 Thanos5150 27-May-14 23:54
Re: Further comments III 656 Martin Stower 28-May-14 00:08
Re: Further comments III 628 Thanos5150 28-May-14 00:59
Re: Further comments III 681 Martin Stower 29-May-14 00:00
Re: Further comments III 688 Skatha 30-May-14 00:16
Re: Further comments III 632 Martin Stower 30-May-14 09:57
Re: Further comments III 655 Thanos5150 30-May-14 17:43
Re: Further comments III 680 randompHactor 30-May-14 18:17
Re: Further comments III 573 Martin Stower 30-May-14 19:25
Re: Further comments III 649 Thanos5150 30-May-14 20:21
Re: Further comments III 640 Martin Stower 30-May-14 20:43
Re: Further comments III 617 Thanos5150 30-May-14 20:56
Re: Further comments III 1063 Martin Stower 30-May-14 21:15
Re: Further comments III 724 Thanos5150 31-May-14 00:28
Re: Further comments III 685 AmadeusD 31-May-14 02:42
Re: Further comments III 667 Martin Stower 31-May-14 07:56
Re: Further comments III 625 sfbey 30-May-14 21:16
Re: Further comments III 664 Dr. Troglodyte 30-May-14 20:12
Re: Further comments III 691 Audrey 30-May-14 05:34
Re: Further comments III 633 Martin Stower 30-May-14 09:25
Re: Further comments III 666 Martin Stower 27-May-14 22:35
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 711 D-Archer 27-May-14 19:15
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 683 Martin Stower 27-May-14 19:25
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 660 D-Archer 27-May-14 19:32
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 682 Martin Stower 27-May-14 22:29
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 706 D-Archer 28-May-14 10:25
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 769 Martin Stower 28-May-14 13:10
Drawn...and quartered : ) 646 Thunderbird 30-May-14 03:52
Re: Drawn...and quartered : ) 672 Martin Stower 30-May-14 12:49
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 671 k_mand 30-May-14 16:48
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 670 Martin Stower 30-May-14 19:31
What have you missed? 611 Thunderbird 30-May-14 22:49
Re: What have you missed? 699 Martin Stower 30-May-14 23:09
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 679 k_mand 31-May-14 04:14
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 634 Martin Stower 31-May-14 08:17
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 633 k_mand 01-Jun-14 02:21
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 574 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 10:38
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 623 Thanos5150 01-Jun-14 17:01
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 620 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 19:02
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 678 Thanos5150 02-Jun-14 02:26
The cult of Khufu 696 Thunderbird 02-Jun-14 03:40
I’d buy that for a dollar! 641 Martin Stower 30-May-14 21:53
Not worth it ... 755 Ahatmose 31-May-14 01:55
Re: Not worth it ... 680 Brian Patterson 31-May-14 04:04
The Mud Slinging Has Started 647 Scott Creighton 31-May-14 09:17
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 724 Ahatmose 31-May-14 11:47
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 633 Scott Creighton 31-May-14 12:00
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 651 Martin Stower 31-May-14 12:45
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 625 Ahatmose 31-May-14 23:14
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 623 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 00:54
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 690 Audrey 01-Jun-14 05:04
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 669 Thunderbird 01-Jun-14 06:06
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 571 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 10:35
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 678 Audrey 01-Jun-14 17:43
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 652 eyeofhorus33 01-Jun-14 19:35
Follow the cult follow the... 527 Thunderbird 01-Jun-14 21:11
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 684 Audrey 03-Jun-14 03:54
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 679 eyeofhorus33 03-Jun-14 22:33
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 690 Audrey 05-Jun-14 02:07
Re: The Ring of the gods 691 Thunderbird 04-Jun-14 15:55
Re: The Ring of the gods 642 Audrey 05-Jun-14 05:36
Re: Mystery of the Gods 668 Thunderbird 02-Jun-14 01:39
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 690 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 10:33
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 634 Audrey 01-Jun-14 19:38
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 705 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 20:44
Arches and Chambers 577 loveritas 01-Jun-14 22:51
Re: Arches and Chambers 681 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 00:03
Definitely Puzzled 660 loveritas 02-Jun-14 11:30
Re: Definitely Puzzled 639 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 13:05
Re: Definitely Puzzled 594 Audrey 03-Jun-14 01:38
Re: Definitely Puzzled 641 Scott Creighton 03-Jun-14 01:56
Re: Definitely Puzzled 690 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 10:40
Re: Definitely Puzzled 682 Scott Creighton 03-Jun-14 11:21
Re: Definitely Puzzled 729 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 13:02
Re: Definitely Puzzled 691 Scott Creighton 03-Jun-14 13:34
Re: Definitely Puzzled 622 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 13:56
Re: Definitely Puzzled 642 Scott Creighton 03-Jun-14 14:03
How it really happened 1555 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 16:15
Re: How it really happened 733 Scott Creighton 03-Jun-14 17:25
Re: How it really happened 896 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 20:18
Re: Definitely Puzzled 658 Audrey 05-Jun-14 01:54
Re: Definitely Puzzled 665 Merrell 03-Jun-14 07:41
Re: Definitely Puzzled 630 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 10:32
Re: Definitely Puzzled 675 loveritas 03-Jun-14 11:12
Re: Definitely Puzzled 680 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 13:05
Re: Definitely Puzzled 650 loveritas 03-Jun-14 23:48
Re: Arches and Chambers 650 Merrell 02-Jun-14 11:36
Re: Arches and Chambers 661 Dr. Troglodyte 02-Jun-14 16:40
Re: Arches and Chambers 620 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 18:02
Re: Arches and Chambers 693 Dr. Troglodyte 02-Jun-14 18:29
Re: Arches and Chambers 641 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 20:46
Re: Forced entry 626 Thunderbird 02-Jun-14 06:31
Going Inside The Pyramid 674 loveritas 02-Jun-14 12:07
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 638 Audrey 01-Jun-14 23:08
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 652 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 00:02
Medjedu 715 loveritas 04-Jun-14 11:39
Wilkinson? 648 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 00:25
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 799 Martin Stower 31-May-14 12:44
Perring and Vyse 1026 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 00:33
Reference marks 688 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 14:01
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 667 Brian Patterson 03-Jun-14 04:06
Mod Warning > Messrs. Creighton and Stower 611 Dr. Troglodyte 03-Jun-14 16:51
How it really happened 614 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 16:54
From caption to self-contradiction 667 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 22:38
Why the drawings? 1168 Martin Stower 04-Jun-14 22:14
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 686 DUNE 04-Jun-14 22:46
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 617 sfbey 04-Jun-14 23:02
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 775 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 08:50
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 703 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 09:42
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 770 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 10:08
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 686 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 10:59
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 665 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 11:04
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 599 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 11:42
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 666 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 11:48
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 679 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 12:04
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 593 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 12:16
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 697 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 12:27
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 608 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 12:30
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 683 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 12:48
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 658 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 12:56
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 627 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 13:49
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 587 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 14:05
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 724 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:12
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 656 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 15:22
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 600 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:32
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 636 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 15:45
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 623 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:50
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 606 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 15:52
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 727 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 16:02
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 677 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 16:04
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 555 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 16:38
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 623 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 16:48
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 688 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 16:56
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 600 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 17:02
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 682 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 17:18
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 613 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 17:23
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 642 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 17:27
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 657 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 17:29
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 646 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 17:51
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 626 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 17:55
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 689 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 18:16
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 613 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 18:21
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 593 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 18:23
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 648 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 18:29
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 670 eyeofhorus33 05-Jun-14 17:45
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 626 cladking 05-Jun-14 16:11
Re: Ping for Audrey and Loveritas 606 Thunderbird 05-Jun-14 19:11
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 609 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 14:20
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 603 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 14:32
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 564 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:30
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 595 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 15:40
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 510 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:45
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 540 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 16:01
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 638 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 16:33
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 598 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:42
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 595 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 16:04
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 629 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 16:45
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 675 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 16:53
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 648 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 17:14
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 650 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 17:44
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 554 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 18:03
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 696 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 18:18
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 686 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 18:21
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 615 Audrey 05-Jun-14 21:22
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 693 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 21:37
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 570 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 22:05
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 706 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 23:04
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 813 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 23:25
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 772 Martin Stower 06-Jun-14 11:44
Mod Warning #2 > Scott Creighton 632 lukehancock 06-Jun-14 14:51
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 602 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 20:22
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 577 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 18:10
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 568 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 18:19
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 637 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 21:10
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 622 Audrey 05-Jun-14 21:29
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 668 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 21:47
Mod Warning #3 > Ahatmose 637 lukehancock 06-Jun-14 14:50
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 639 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 16:06
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 583 Martin Stower 04-Jun-14 23:20
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 731 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 10:01
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 745 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 11:14
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 664 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 11:25
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 878 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 11:39
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 676 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 11:48
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 659 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 12:00
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 704 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 12:14
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 626 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 14:34
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 554 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 14:58
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 637 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 16:10
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 597 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 16:13
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 622 eyeofhorus33 05-Jun-14 18:25
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 642 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 21:17


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