Mysteries :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
Welcome! Log InRegister
Remembering some earlier thoughts on the content of this page in particular, I realise that there is more to say about this.

First some reminders.

To fully understand what this is about, you will need to obtain a copy of Atlantis Rising Issue 106, which will cost you $2.95 for a PDF download:

[atlantisrising.com]

The relevant article is “CRIME IN THE GREAT PYRAMID BY SCOTT CREIGHTON”, starting on page 42.

Please note the following caveat.

If you have gained the impression from the hype that Creighton has made some game-changing discovery and are disappointed in what it turns out to be, please don’t ask me for your money back. I’m not recommending the article. I know it’s junk.

Studying Vyse’s manuscript over a usefully long period of time, one begins to recognise at least some of his notations, including (of obvious importance) dates. Here, quite conspicously, to the left of a block of text, is this: “S. 17.” This in Vyse’s notation is Saturday 17 June. We know that it’s June, as, following the dates backwards, we find (8 pages earlier) “Thursday. June. 1.”

The date for the preceding entry (“F. 16.”) is just visible (cut in half) at the top of the scanned image. (I wish I’d noticed this when I did the scan.)

The smaller illustration of the crew name xwfw smrw — captioned “in Campbell’s Chamber” — appears at the end of the entry, so we may fairly assume that it was drawn (squeezed into the space?) no earlier than the 16th.





A clue to the timing might have been obtained (with less haste and more speed) by cross-reference to Vyse’s book:





Here we catch the Colonel in a mistake. Consider the drawings at bottom left of the manuscript page. See how the text runs around them? It begins to run around them with the entry for the 16th, so they must have been drawn before that entry was written, probably earlier that day, the day for which Vyse, writing in retrospect, in 1838, the version for publication, could find nothing to say but “Nothing particular occurred.”

This implies also that the smaller illustration — the one with the additional characters which make it a crew name — was drawn later than the larger one.

Where is this taking us?

Friday 16 June 1837 is far too late in the day for this to be some kind of “blueprint for forgery” — that, or Vyse massively falsified the chronology, both privately (in his journal) and publically, with the connivance of (among others) the British and Austrian Consuls-General. (I fully expect this inanity to be advanced.)

Everything concerning the crew names was done and dusted by this date. Vyse had (probably in front of him, as he made his own drawings) Hill’s 1:1 facsimile of the cartouche of Khufu in Campbell’s Chamber (copyright British Museum):





Note also that the full version of this (covering two sheets of paper) shows the characters following the cartouche. Borrowing for a moment the Creighton style: it’s as if Vyse, for his own convenience, copied what he saw in front of him into his journal.

Consider again that larger drawing (captioned “Cartouche in Campbell’s Chamber”):





What does it look like now that you’ve seen Hill’s?

Added: Vyse’s (published) entry for 19 June has the following: “I wrote to Mr. Hamilton, and enclosed drawings of the characters in Campbell's Chamber . . .”

What may we say in summary? Timing, sequence, captions and content make nonsense of Creighton’s conjecture. What we have is the same old story of Creighton storming in with his prior agenda and assuming that the first thought which pops into his head is a breakthrough insight — and serving up the fruit of his ineptitude with a fanfare of trumpets.

M.



Post Edited (24-May-14 20:17)

Options: ReplyQuote


Subject Views Written By Posted
Further comments on Creighton’s article [Thread Closed] 941 Martin Stower 23-May-14 00:06
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 521 drew 23-May-14 04:09
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 623 Martin Stower 23-May-14 09:32
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 601 Skatha 23-May-14 04:46
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 561 Martin Stower 24-May-14 19:11
Desperate 525 LonelyAngel 23-May-14 13:11
Re: Desperate 603 Martin Stower 23-May-14 13:46
Mod Note > LonelyAngel – Reminder 627 Dr. Troglodyte 23-May-14 17:19
Re: Desperate 550 eyeofhorus33 23-May-14 17:56
Re: Desperate 589 Martin Stower 23-May-14 23:12
Re: Desperate 580 LonelyAngel 25-May-14 14:15
Re: Desperate 549 Brian Patterson 25-May-14 15:30
Re: Desperate 566 Martin Stower 25-May-14 15:48
Re: Desperate 542 Ahatmose 25-May-14 16:04
Re: Desperate 507 Martin Stower 25-May-14 16:56
Re: Desperate 640 Ahatmose 25-May-14 17:13
Re: Desperate 586 LonelyAngel 25-May-14 20:24
Re: Desperate 606 Martin Stower 26-May-14 00:19
Re: Desperate 537 cladking 25-May-14 22:30
Re: Desperate 484 eyeofhorus33 25-May-14 17:13
Re: Desperate 528 LonelyAngel 25-May-14 20:51
Re: Desperate 590 Martin Stower 25-May-14 22:47
Re: Desperate 513 eyeofhorus33 26-May-14 08:35
Further comments II 1079 Martin Stower 24-May-14 18:20
Re: Further comments II 522 Thanos5150 24-May-14 19:31
Re: Further comments II 532 Martin Stower 24-May-14 19:51
Re: Further comments II 560 Thanos5150 25-May-14 01:35
Re: Further comments II 495 drew 25-May-14 03:47
Re: Further comments II 589 eyeofhorus33 25-May-14 10:01
Re: Further comments II 541 Martin Stower 25-May-14 12:05
Re: Further comments II 589 Martin Stower 25-May-14 12:01
Further comments III 1004 Martin Stower 26-May-14 02:14
Re: Further comments III 567 Thanos5150 27-May-14 17:06
Re: Further comments III 570 Martin Stower 27-May-14 19:12
Re: Further comments III 550 Thanos5150 27-May-14 22:34
Re: Further comments III 525 Martin Stower 27-May-14 22:52
Re: Further comments III 571 Dr. Troglodyte 27-May-14 23:04
Re: Further comments III 554 Thanos5150 27-May-14 23:23
Re: Further comments III 530 Martin Stower 27-May-14 23:44
Re: Further comments III 522 Thanos5150 27-May-14 23:54
Re: Further comments III 555 Martin Stower 28-May-14 00:08
Re: Further comments III 529 Thanos5150 28-May-14 00:59
Re: Further comments III 572 Martin Stower 29-May-14 00:00
Re: Further comments III 589 Skatha 30-May-14 00:16
Re: Further comments III 531 Martin Stower 30-May-14 09:57
Re: Further comments III 561 Thanos5150 30-May-14 17:43
Re: Further comments III 581 randompHactor 30-May-14 18:17
Re: Further comments III 470 Martin Stower 30-May-14 19:25
Re: Further comments III 550 Thanos5150 30-May-14 20:21
Re: Further comments III 541 Martin Stower 30-May-14 20:43
Re: Further comments III 517 Thanos5150 30-May-14 20:56
Re: Further comments III 878 Martin Stower 30-May-14 21:15
Re: Further comments III 595 Thanos5150 31-May-14 00:28
Re: Further comments III 541 AmadeusD 31-May-14 02:42
Re: Further comments III 574 Martin Stower 31-May-14 07:56
Re: Further comments III 520 sfbey 30-May-14 21:16
Re: Further comments III 567 Dr. Troglodyte 30-May-14 20:12
Re: Further comments III 598 Audrey 30-May-14 05:34
Re: Further comments III 543 Martin Stower 30-May-14 09:25
Re: Further comments III 568 Martin Stower 27-May-14 22:35
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 602 D-Archer 27-May-14 19:15
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 591 Martin Stower 27-May-14 19:25
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 562 D-Archer 27-May-14 19:32
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 591 Martin Stower 27-May-14 22:29
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 603 D-Archer 28-May-14 10:25
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 669 Martin Stower 28-May-14 13:10
Drawn...and quartered : ) 542 Thunderbird 30-May-14 03:52
Re: Drawn...and quartered : ) 577 Martin Stower 30-May-14 12:49
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 576 k_mand 30-May-14 16:48
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 574 Martin Stower 30-May-14 19:31
What have you missed? 514 Thunderbird 30-May-14 22:49
Re: What have you missed? 607 Martin Stower 30-May-14 23:09
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 584 k_mand 31-May-14 04:14
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 531 Martin Stower 31-May-14 08:17
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 535 k_mand 01-Jun-14 02:21
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 480 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 10:38
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 534 Thanos5150 01-Jun-14 17:01
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 527 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 19:02
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 561 Thanos5150 02-Jun-14 02:26
The cult of Khufu 599 Thunderbird 02-Jun-14 03:40
I’d buy that for a dollar! 543 Martin Stower 30-May-14 21:53
Not worth it ... 660 Ahatmose 31-May-14 01:55
Re: Not worth it ... 591 Brian Patterson 31-May-14 04:04
The Mud Slinging Has Started 536 Scott Creighton 31-May-14 09:17
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 631 Ahatmose 31-May-14 11:47
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 533 Scott Creighton 31-May-14 12:00
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 551 Martin Stower 31-May-14 12:45
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 533 Ahatmose 31-May-14 23:14
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 522 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 00:54
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 591 Audrey 01-Jun-14 05:04
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 569 Thunderbird 01-Jun-14 06:06
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 465 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 10:35
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 576 Audrey 01-Jun-14 17:43
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 554 eyeofhorus33 01-Jun-14 19:35
Follow the cult follow the... 435 Thunderbird 01-Jun-14 21:11
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 571 Audrey 03-Jun-14 03:54
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 581 eyeofhorus33 03-Jun-14 22:33
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 581 Audrey 05-Jun-14 02:07
Re: The Ring of the gods 588 Thunderbird 04-Jun-14 15:55
Re: The Ring of the gods 550 Audrey 05-Jun-14 05:36
Re: Mystery of the Gods 504 Thunderbird 02-Jun-14 01:39
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 587 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 10:33
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 535 Audrey 01-Jun-14 19:38
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 608 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 20:44
Arches and Chambers 489 loveritas 01-Jun-14 22:51
Re: Arches and Chambers 584 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 00:03
Definitely Puzzled 569 loveritas 02-Jun-14 11:30
Re: Definitely Puzzled 548 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 13:05
Re: Definitely Puzzled 496 Audrey 03-Jun-14 01:38
Re: Definitely Puzzled 553 Scott Creighton 03-Jun-14 01:56
Re: Definitely Puzzled 590 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 10:40
Re: Definitely Puzzled 579 Scott Creighton 03-Jun-14 11:21
Re: Definitely Puzzled 637 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 13:02
Re: Definitely Puzzled 576 Scott Creighton 03-Jun-14 13:34
Re: Definitely Puzzled 530 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 13:56
Re: Definitely Puzzled 542 Scott Creighton 03-Jun-14 14:03
How it really happened 1325 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 16:15
Re: How it really happened 634 Scott Creighton 03-Jun-14 17:25
Re: How it really happened 745 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 20:18
Re: Definitely Puzzled 559 Audrey 05-Jun-14 01:54
Re: Definitely Puzzled 563 Merrell 03-Jun-14 07:41
Re: Definitely Puzzled 532 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 10:32
Re: Definitely Puzzled 581 loveritas 03-Jun-14 11:12
Re: Definitely Puzzled 579 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 13:05
Re: Definitely Puzzled 551 loveritas 03-Jun-14 23:48
Re: Arches and Chambers 532 Merrell 02-Jun-14 11:36
Re: Arches and Chambers 562 Dr. Troglodyte 02-Jun-14 16:40
Re: Arches and Chambers 522 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 18:02
Re: Arches and Chambers 585 Dr. Troglodyte 02-Jun-14 18:29
Re: Arches and Chambers 541 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 20:46
Re: Forced entry 538 Thunderbird 02-Jun-14 06:31
Going Inside The Pyramid 579 loveritas 02-Jun-14 12:07
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 546 Audrey 01-Jun-14 23:08
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 557 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 00:02
Medjedu 592 loveritas 04-Jun-14 11:39
Wilkinson? 552 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 00:25
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 674 Martin Stower 31-May-14 12:44
Perring and Vyse 887 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 00:33
Reference marks 603 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 14:01
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 562 Brian Patterson 03-Jun-14 04:06
Mod Warning > Messrs. Creighton and Stower 522 Dr. Troglodyte 03-Jun-14 16:51
How it really happened 524 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 16:54
From caption to self-contradiction 548 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 22:38
Why the drawings? 986 Martin Stower 04-Jun-14 22:14
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 585 DUNE 04-Jun-14 22:46
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 519 sfbey 04-Jun-14 23:02
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 643 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 08:50
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 547 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 09:42
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 632 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 10:08
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 572 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 10:59
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 568 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 11:04
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 510 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 11:42
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 575 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 11:48
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 554 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 12:04
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 504 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 12:16
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 590 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 12:27
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 519 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 12:30
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 579 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 12:48
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 566 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 12:56
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 547 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 13:49
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 502 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 14:05
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 595 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:12
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 570 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 15:22
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 512 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:32
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 528 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 15:45
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 519 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:50
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 522 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 15:52
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 589 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 16:02
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 589 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 16:04
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 451 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 16:38
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 537 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 16:48
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 588 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 16:56
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 512 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 17:02
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 575 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 17:18
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 522 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 17:23
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 535 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 17:27
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 568 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 17:29
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 565 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 17:51
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 534 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 17:55
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 589 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 18:16
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 529 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 18:21
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 471 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 18:23
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 564 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 18:29
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 576 eyeofhorus33 05-Jun-14 17:45
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 530 cladking 05-Jun-14 16:11
Re: Ping for Audrey and Loveritas 515 Thunderbird 05-Jun-14 19:11
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 517 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 14:20
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 513 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 14:32
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 482 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:30
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 507 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 15:40
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 427 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:45
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 428 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 16:01
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 557 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 16:33
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 511 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:42
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 514 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 16:04
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 539 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 16:45
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 579 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 16:53
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 559 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 17:14
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 559 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 17:44
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 467 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 18:03
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 611 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 18:18
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 593 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 18:21
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 521 Audrey 05-Jun-14 21:22
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 604 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 21:37
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 485 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 22:05
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 612 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 23:04
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 715 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 23:25
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 661 Martin Stower 06-Jun-14 11:44
Mod Warning #2 > Scott Creighton 546 lukehancock 06-Jun-14 14:51
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 515 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 20:22
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 492 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 18:10
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 484 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 18:19
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 555 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 21:10
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 531 Audrey 05-Jun-14 21:29
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 575 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 21:47
Mod Warning #3 > Ahatmose 547 lukehancock 06-Jun-14 14:50
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 544 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 16:06
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 492 Martin Stower 04-Jun-14 23:20
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 636 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 10:01
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 605 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 11:14
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 572 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 11:25
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 760 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 11:39
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 468 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 11:48
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 563 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 12:00
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 555 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 12:14
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 538 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 14:34
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 464 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 14:58
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 547 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 16:10
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 493 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 16:13
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 542 eyeofhorus33 05-Jun-14 18:25
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 553 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 21:17


Sorry, you can't reply to this topic. It has been closed.