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Creighton, amusingly, repeats the late Mr Alford’s idea in pedantic detail, right down to the sillier assumptions built into it.

Does it really need pointing out that the Horus name appears in separate inscriptions, in a different scribal hand, nowhere near the cartouche of Khufu?

What am I saying? For Creighton, of course it does.

It has apparently escaped his attention that royal names appeared in all kinds of contexts. A copyist acting as Creighton imagines — merely copying a few of the hieroglyphs following a recognised name — would need to be preternaturally lucky not to copy mere gibberish or phrases obviously inappropriate.

Royal names appear in titles and royal names appear as parts of other names. In funereal contexts, we may find them as components of titles, personal names, estate names, names of pyramids and yes, names of work crews. Names of work crews are what is needed, as the inscriptions in the pyramid end with the character (acting as determinative) which tells us that they are exactly that.

We may note also that the name xwfw appears in the context of the crew name xwfw smrw. Crew names of this form are known for Menkaure, Neuserre and another pharaoh whose name is of uncertain reading. In short, the Khufu example fits in perfectly with later discoveries, the opposite of what we’d expect, if it were a forgery.

We may note in passing the sheer silliness of imagining that Vyse and crew knew enough to produce impeccable 4th-dynasty hieratic, in more than one scribal hand, at at time when leading scholars in the field could not have done so.

So, “Lucky” Howard Vyse, casting about at random, hits upon three royal names, only two of which he’d recognise as royal names and only one of which had been assigned by cutting-edge opinion to the Cheops of Herodotus. Not only that, but finds them in the context of crew names, in 4th-dynasty hieratic: just the right thing to copy into the pyramid! And as a pure guess, he copies and uses the unknown names, which turn out after all to belong to Khufu!

What are the chances?

M.


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Subject Views Written By Posted
Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 1081 Dr. Troglodyte 10-May-13 20:14
William Wilberforce, crook 504 Martin Stower 11-May-13 12:17
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 470 Nejc 11-May-13 16:15
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 479 Merrell 11-May-13 18:36
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 473 Scott Creighton 12-May-13 11:27
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 554 Merrell 12-May-13 22:37
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 516 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 11:03
Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, excavator 425 Merrell 13-May-13 13:11
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 473 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 13:21
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 486 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:14
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 382 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:16
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 461 Merrell 14-May-13 09:41
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 466 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:47
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 472 Martin Stower 15-May-13 11:18
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 560 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 12:02
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 477 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:26
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 420 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 15:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 522 Martin Stower 16-May-13 09:55
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 458 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:04
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 454 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:34
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 401 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:43
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 474 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 529 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:09
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 465 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:31
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 433 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:36
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 435 cladking 16-May-13 15:14
Re: What are they so afraid of? 518 Thunderbird 16-May-13 15:55
Re: What are they so afraid of? 464 cladking 16-May-13 21:40
Calling Dr. Schoch 537 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 16:04
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 534 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 16:26
Logbook doubts 449 Merrell 16-May-13 21:38
Re: Logbook doubts 508 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 22:46
Re: Logbook doubts 403 Merrell 16-May-13 23:25
Re: Logbook doubts 469 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 08:00
Re: Logbook doubts 463 Merrell 17-May-13 14:30
Re: Logbook doubts 447 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 14:56
Re: Logbook doubts 458 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:11
Re: Logbook doubts 443 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:53
Re: Logbook doubts 410 MJT 17-May-13 22:31
Re: Logbook doubts 499 Merrell 18-May-13 11:23
Re: Logbook doubts 553 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 12:10
Re: Logbook doubts 570 Martin Stower 20-May-13 17:54
Re: Logbook doubts 383 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 00:20
Re: Logbook doubts 462 Morten 21-May-13 09:03
Re: Logbook doubts 510 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:22
Re: Logbook doubts 511 Merrell 21-May-13 10:26
Re: Logbook doubts 438 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:35
Re: Logbook doubts 473 Merrell 21-May-13 13:46
Re: Logbook doubts 389 Morten 21-May-13 10:40
Re: Logbook doubts 476 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 11:04
Re: Logbook doubts 485 Morten 21-May-13 11:29
Re: Logbook doubts 506 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 12:04
Re: Logbook doubts 474 Morten 21-May-13 13:19
Re: Logbook doubts 554 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 13:33
Re: Logbook doubts 471 Merrell 21-May-13 14:16
Re: Logbook doubts 471 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:27
Re: Logbook doubts 514 Merrell 21-May-13 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 496 Morten 21-May-13 14:37
Re: Logbook doubts 465 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:54
Re: Logbook doubts 495 Morten 22-May-13 10:51
Re: Logbook doubts 524 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:13
Re: Logbook doubts 402 Audrey 22-May-13 02:20
Re: Logbook doubts 463 Morten 22-May-13 08:18
Re: Logbook doubts 427 Martin Stower 22-May-13 15:02
Re: Logbook doubts 440 Audrey 24-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 628 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:43
Re: Logbook doubts 361 Audrey 24-May-13 01:10
Re: Logbook doubts 399 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 13:15
Re: Logbook doubts 503 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 18:17
Re: Logbook doubts 492 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 22:01
Re: Logbook doubts 435 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 22:15
Re:Khufu....Hyksos? 466 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 01:36
Re: Logbook doubts 459 Audrey 11-Jun-14 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 539 eyeofhorus33 11-Jun-14 22:18
Re: Logbook doubts 488 Audrey 12-Jun-14 21:22
Re: Logbook doubts 431 eyeofhorus33 12-Jun-14 22:20
Re: Logbook doubts 433 cladking 13-Jun-14 00:24
Re: Logbook doubts 418 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 22:53
Re: Logbook doubts 422 cladking 13-Jun-14 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 432 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 427 cladking 14-Jun-14 00:17
Re: Logbook doubts 452 Audrey 14-Jun-14 02:17
Re: Logbook doubts 503 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 11:44
Re: Logbook doubts 450 cladking 14-Jun-14 15:25
context and customs 398 Audrey 14-Jun-14 19:25
Re: context and customs 388 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:23
Re: Logbook doubts 464 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 21:29
Re: Logbook doubts 445 cladking 14-Jun-14 22:07
Re: Logbook doubts 433 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 23:04
Re: Logbook doubts 463 cladking 15-Jun-14 00:29
Re: Logbook doubts 465 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 18:35
Re: Logbook doubts 440 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:56
Re: Logbook doubts 451 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 21:26
Language doubts 412 cladking 15-Jun-14 21:48
Re: Language doubts 417 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 22:05
Re: Language doubts 431 cladking 15-Jun-14 22:51
Re: Language doubts 430 Audrey 16-Jun-14 04:17
Re: Language doubts 479 cladking 16-Jun-14 04:51
Re: Logbook doubts 345 cladking 12-Jun-14 22:57
Re:doubts 458 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 23:36
Re:doubts 414 Audrey 12-Jun-14 19:54
Moderator Notice 398 Hoppy 22-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 390 Audrey 22-May-13 02:52
Re: Logbook doubts 374 Martin Stower 18-May-13 13:37
Re: Logbook doubts 437 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 14:01
Re: Logbook doubts 422 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:52
Re: Logbook doubts 421 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:16
Re: Logbook doubts 501 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:57
Re: Logbook doubts 434 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:51
Re: Logbook doubts 406 Martin Stower 20-May-13 18:25
Re: Logbook doubts 284 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:49
Re: Logbook doubts 461 Martin Stower 21-May-13 15:42
Re: Logbook doubts 427 HungryHun 17-May-13 15:20
Re: Conspired.... 440 Thunderbird 17-May-13 15:47
Re: Conspired.... 435 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:04
Re: Conspired.... 405 Thunderbird 17-May-13 23:17
Re: Conspired....inspire d by money 436 Ratcho 03-Jun-13 05:57
Re: Logbook doubts 376 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:23
Re: Logbook doubts 435 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:28
Re: Logbook doubts 434 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:25
Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 413 LonelyAngel 29-May-13 14:41
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 390 Nejc 29-May-13 23:23
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 404 Merrell 30-May-13 09:25
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 456 Martin Stower 30-May-13 12:48
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 440 WINDINWATERS 30-May-13 14:40
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 338 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:00
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 397 WINDINWATERS 31-May-13 21:47
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 384 LonelyAngel 30-May-13 17:43
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 383 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:24
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 447 cladking 01-Jun-13 03:28
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 429 Merrell 01-Jun-13 11:02
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 373 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:59
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 390 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 594 Martin Stower 17-May-13 15:51
Re: Logbook doubts 432 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:27
Re: Logbook doubts 452 Nejc 17-May-13 22:28
Re: Logbook doubts 820 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:43
Re: Logbook doubts 682 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:12
Re: Logbook doubts 508 Merrell 19-May-13 16:43
Re: Logbook doubts 442 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 09:38
Re: Logbook doubts 401 Merrell 20-May-13 13:29
Re: Logbook doubts 528 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 13:58
Re: Logbook doubts 412 Merrell 20-May-13 14:55
Re: Logbook doubts 430 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:46
Re: Logbook doubts 470 HungryHun 20-May-13 22:02
Re: Logbook doubts 434 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:05
Re: Logbook doubts 446 sfbey 20-May-13 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 441 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:35
Re: Logbook doubts 450 sfbey 21-May-13 15:41
Moghrah 455 Merrell 21-May-13 18:09
Re: Logbook doubts 333 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 23:38
Re: Logbook doubts 359 Merrell 21-May-13 21:34
Re: Logbook doubts 364 Audrey 22-May-13 02:34
Re: Logbook doubts 413 Merrell 21-May-13 21:58
Re: Logbook doubts 429 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 10:42
Re: Logbook doubts 386 Merrell 22-May-13 11:43
Re: Logbook doubts 371 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 17:44
Re: Logbook doubts 312 Nejc 22-May-13 23:18
Re: Logbook doubts 310 cladking 23-May-13 00:51
Re: Logbook doubts 319 Merrell 23-May-13 08:41
Re: Logbook doubts 348 Martin Stower 20-May-13 19:19
Re: Logbook doubts 261 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 19:35
Re: Logbook doubts 388 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:59
Moderator Warning 459 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:12
Moderator Warning 375 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:11
Re: exercise elementary caution about sources 340 Thunderbird 20-May-13 19:36
Re: Logbook doubts 383 Audrey 22-May-13 02:50
Re: Logbook doubts 328 Merrell 22-May-13 12:53
Re: Logbook doubts 304 Audrey 24-May-13 01:48
Moderator Caution 253 Hoppy 22-May-13 12:55
Re: Logbook doubts 225 Martin Stower 22-May-13 16:06
Re: Logbook doubts 218 Audrey 24-May-13 01:41
Re: Logbook doubts 220 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:56
Re: Logbook doubts 203 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:40
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 285 Thanos5150 16-May-13 19:41
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 253 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 21:56
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 239 Thanos5150 16-May-13 23:11
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 221 Dr. Troglodyte 17-May-13 00:01
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 259 Thanos5150 17-May-13 00:30
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 227 cladking 16-May-13 21:50
Moderator Caution 277 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:09
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 195 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:53
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 230 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 17:40
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 225 Martin Stower 13-May-13 18:32
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 157 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 19:23
Moderator Caution #2 148 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:18
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 182 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:52
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 217 Nejc 11-May-13 13:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 207 JonnyMcA 11-May-13 18:41
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 211 Audrey 12-May-13 07:59
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 190 JonnyMcA 12-May-13 09:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 240 HungryHun 12-May-13 13:00
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 185 HungryHun 13-May-13 12:46
Re: Caviglia's complaint.... 197 Thunderbird 13-May-13 16:20
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 190 HungryHun 13-May-13 19:36
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 180 Martin Stower 15-May-13 15:04
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 183 HungryHun 16-May-13 10:03
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 188 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 167 Merrell 16-May-13 16:33
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 189 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:02
Re: If fake, then... what? 218 MJT 16-May-13 12:45
More Vyse wickedness 205 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:14
Re: More Vyse wickedness 270 Scott Creighton 19-May-13 09:01
Re: More Vyse wickedness 276 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:44
Re: More Vyse wickedness 303 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:56
Re: More Vyse wickedness 338 jamesglory 21-May-13 10:26
Re: More Vyse wickedness 313 Audrey 22-May-13 02:42
Moderator Caution 240 Hoppy 20-May-13 17:57
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 228 Audrey 14-Jun-14 21:11
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 191 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:49
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 205 Scott Creighton 15-Jun-14 00:13
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 230 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 00:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 197 cladking 15-Jun-14 01:12
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 195 Sirfiroth 15-Jun-14 19:09
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 227 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:40
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 219 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:32
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 298 eyeofhorus33 16-Jun-14 18:38
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 213 Audrey 23-Jun-14 03:15
Australian Funeral 250 molder 15-Jun-14 05:03
Re: Australian Funeral 361 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:56
Re: Australian Funeral 188 molder 16-Jun-14 12:06
Re: Australian Funeral 195 cladking 16-Jun-14 16:50
Re: Australian Funeral 174 Audrey 23-Jun-14 01:58
Re: Australian Funeral 220 molder 19-Jun-14 07:25
Re: Australian Funeral 194 molder 20-Jun-14 10:28
Re: Australian Funeral/North American Funeral 174 molder 22-Jun-14 06:53


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