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And around in circles the merry-go-round travels. One would have thought the number of times we've gone round on this we'd all be spewing our guts by now. Nevertheless, once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more.....


MS: So the full chain of hearsay is this:

Humphries Brewer → William Marchant Brewer → Helen Pattengill (née Brewer) → Walter’s mother → Walter M. Allen → Zecharia Sitchin

SC: What? Are you having a giggle here or what? Surely you jest? Surely you understand the difference between a primary source and secondary source? Who first wrote the words "Faint marks were repainted, some were new"? Was it Walter Allen or was it Sitchin? Yes, Stower - it was Walter Allen. Sitchin merely QUOTED Walter Allen. You do understand the difference, Stower, don't you? Of course you do:


"...By the way, despite the way you've quoted it, I didn't write the article." - Martin Stower

So, you clearly understand the difference between someone who WRITES an original piece (the original source) and someone who subsequently QUOTES that original source. Is it then the case on Planet Stower that anyone who QUOTES someone else is to be held responsible and accountable for the original quote? In short, is the person who delivers the message responsible for the content of the message? Am I responsible for something Hawass wrote simply because I presented his quote in my last book? Of course I am not and by your statement above, I do not believe you really do consider that to be the case either. So do tell us then, Stower, why do you insist that Sitchin is somehow responsible for something written entirely by someone else and which he (Sitchin) was merely the messenger (i.e. Sitchin was merely the person who made public Walter Allen's hitherto private notes)? Explain yourself.


MS: To complete your analogy:

The person who slips you the note is a known liar.

SC: Irrelevant because the "known liar" did not write the note. See above about primary and secondary sources.


MS: The known fraudster was never convicted of fraud.

SC: Charges were certainly leveled against him but he certainly wasn't formally convicted. However, he DID fraudulently secure for himself 932 votes in the 1807 election and, as such, he SHOULD have been convicted for it:


Vyse is known to have paid all but 78 of those who voted for him at the rate of £3 8s. for a plumper and £1 14s. for a split vote. - From your own link.

That's 932 crimes, 932 instances of electoral fraud, 932 fraudulent notes/votes. So, regardless of there not being a formal conviction (did partisan politics prevent Staple's Petition from succeeding as was often the case in those times? Did Tricky Dicky pay Staple to drop his Petition?), the evidence is very clear that Tricky Dicky was a fraudster nonetheless, a view you evidently share, to wit:


"Not that this lets him [Howard-Vyse] off the hook: it looks like the petition [of Philip Staple] should have succeeded." - Martin Stower

SC: I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment and I am sure many others will too. With the benefit of historical perspective, Tricky Dicky has been found guilty as charged in the court of public opinion.


MS: The known fraudster was never caught passing dud banknotes.

SC: He certainly secured 932 fraudulent notes/votes - see your link above. With regards to the latest fraud allegations, the jury is still out.


MS: Experts say the banknotes he did pass are genuine.

SC: And incredulously they came to that conclusion without any forensic tests being done whatsoever. The experts simply accepted the fraudster on his word.


MS: The fraud of which there is some evidence is one perpetrated also by such well-known moral lepers as William Wilberforce and Lord Cochrane.

SC: Tricky-Dicky perpetrated fraud. See your own quote above, in which you imply such. All that is needed now is further evidence to either convict or exonerate him of the latest fraud allegation.


Post Edited (18-May-13 11:02)

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 1226 Dr. Troglodyte 10-May-13 20:14
William Wilberforce, crook 577 Martin Stower 11-May-13 12:17
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 545 Nejc 11-May-13 16:15
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 561 Merrell 11-May-13 18:36
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 553 Scott Creighton 12-May-13 11:27
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 629 Merrell 12-May-13 22:37
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 595 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 11:03
Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, excavator 502 Merrell 13-May-13 13:11
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 549 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 13:21
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 579 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:14
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 461 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:16
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 547 Merrell 14-May-13 09:41
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 548 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:47
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 665 Martin Stower 15-May-13 11:18
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 669 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 12:02
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 554 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:26
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 496 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 15:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 625 Martin Stower 16-May-13 09:55
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 535 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:04
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 536 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:34
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 486 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:43
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 547 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 613 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:09
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 538 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:31
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 511 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:36
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 507 cladking 16-May-13 15:14
Re: What are they so afraid of? 603 Thunderbird 16-May-13 15:55
Re: What are they so afraid of? 540 cladking 16-May-13 21:40
Calling Dr. Schoch 633 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 16:04
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 627 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 16:26
Logbook doubts 540 Merrell 16-May-13 21:38
Re: Logbook doubts 584 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 22:46
Re: Logbook doubts 478 Merrell 16-May-13 23:25
Re: Logbook doubts 547 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 08:00
Re: Logbook doubts 539 Merrell 17-May-13 14:30
Re: Logbook doubts 749 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 14:56
Re: Logbook doubts 540 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:11
Re: Logbook doubts 519 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:53
Re: Logbook doubts 490 MJT 17-May-13 22:31
Re: Logbook doubts 575 Merrell 18-May-13 11:23
Re: Logbook doubts 644 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 12:10
Re: Logbook doubts 670 Martin Stower 20-May-13 17:54
Re: Logbook doubts 463 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 00:20
Re: Logbook doubts 553 Morten 21-May-13 09:03
Re: Logbook doubts 592 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:22
Re: Logbook doubts 591 Merrell 21-May-13 10:26
Re: Logbook doubts 517 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:35
Re: Logbook doubts 549 Merrell 21-May-13 13:46
Re: Logbook doubts 467 Morten 21-May-13 10:40
Re: Logbook doubts 556 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 11:04
Re: Logbook doubts 563 Morten 21-May-13 11:29
Re: Logbook doubts 599 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 12:04
Re: Logbook doubts 545 Morten 21-May-13 13:19
Re: Logbook doubts 655 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 13:33
Re: Logbook doubts 548 Merrell 21-May-13 14:16
Re: Logbook doubts 556 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:27
Re: Logbook doubts 612 Merrell 21-May-13 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 574 Morten 21-May-13 14:37
Re: Logbook doubts 540 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:54
Re: Logbook doubts 574 Morten 22-May-13 10:51
Re: Logbook doubts 600 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:13
Re: Logbook doubts 613 Audrey 22-May-13 02:20
Re: Logbook doubts 540 Morten 22-May-13 08:18
Re: Logbook doubts 510 Martin Stower 22-May-13 15:02
Re: Logbook doubts 524 Audrey 24-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 855 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:43
Re: Logbook doubts 437 Audrey 24-May-13 01:10
Re: Logbook doubts 461 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 13:15
Re: Logbook doubts 584 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 18:17
Re: Logbook doubts 566 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 22:01
Re: Logbook doubts 508 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 22:15
Re:Khufu....Hyksos? 540 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 01:36
Re: Logbook doubts 528 Audrey 11-Jun-14 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 779 eyeofhorus33 11-Jun-14 22:18
Re: Logbook doubts 562 Audrey 12-Jun-14 21:22
Re: Logbook doubts 503 eyeofhorus33 12-Jun-14 22:20
Re: Logbook doubts 502 cladking 13-Jun-14 00:24
Re: Logbook doubts 487 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 22:53
Re: Logbook doubts 500 cladking 13-Jun-14 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 503 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 501 cladking 14-Jun-14 00:17
Re: Logbook doubts 518 Audrey 14-Jun-14 02:17
Re: Logbook doubts 579 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 11:44
Re: Logbook doubts 518 cladking 14-Jun-14 15:25
context and customs 476 Audrey 14-Jun-14 19:25
Re: context and customs 462 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:23
Re: Logbook doubts 540 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 21:29
Re: Logbook doubts 512 cladking 14-Jun-14 22:07
Re: Logbook doubts 508 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 23:04
Re: Logbook doubts 540 cladking 15-Jun-14 00:29
Re: Logbook doubts 530 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 18:35
Re: Logbook doubts 519 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:56
Re: Logbook doubts 527 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 21:26
Language doubts 482 cladking 15-Jun-14 21:48
Re: Language doubts 490 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 22:05
Re: Language doubts 501 cladking 15-Jun-14 22:51
Re: Language doubts 499 Audrey 16-Jun-14 04:17
Re: Language doubts 544 cladking 16-Jun-14 04:51
Re: Logbook doubts 419 cladking 12-Jun-14 22:57
Re:doubts 543 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 23:36
Re:doubts 485 Audrey 12-Jun-14 19:54
Moderator Notice 490 Hoppy 22-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 479 Audrey 22-May-13 02:52
Re: Logbook doubts 440 Martin Stower 18-May-13 13:37
Re: Logbook doubts 509 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 14:01
Re: Logbook doubts 494 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:52
Re: Logbook doubts 490 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:16
Re: Logbook doubts 576 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:57
Re: Logbook doubts 503 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:51
Re: Logbook doubts 483 Martin Stower 20-May-13 18:25
Re: Logbook doubts 362 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:49
Re: Logbook doubts 528 Martin Stower 21-May-13 15:42
Re: Logbook doubts 507 HungryHun 17-May-13 15:20
Re: Conspired.... 504 Thunderbird 17-May-13 15:47
Re: Conspired.... 501 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:04
Re: Conspired.... 477 Thunderbird 17-May-13 23:17
Re: Conspired....inspire d by money 540 Ratcho 03-Jun-13 05:57
Re: Logbook doubts 447 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:23
Re: Logbook doubts 507 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:28
Re: Logbook doubts 507 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:25
Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 482 LonelyAngel 29-May-13 14:41
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 465 Nejc 29-May-13 23:23
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 476 Merrell 30-May-13 09:25
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 551 Martin Stower 30-May-13 12:48
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 515 WINDINWATERS 30-May-13 14:40
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 411 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:00
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 474 WINDINWATERS 31-May-13 21:47
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 462 LonelyAngel 30-May-13 17:43
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 462 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:24
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 515 cladking 01-Jun-13 03:28
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 504 Merrell 01-Jun-13 11:02
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 489 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:59
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 467 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 678 Martin Stower 17-May-13 15:51
Re: Logbook doubts 508 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:27
Re: Logbook doubts 525 Nejc 17-May-13 22:28
Re: Logbook doubts 968 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:43
Re: Logbook doubts 793 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:12
Re: Logbook doubts 576 Merrell 19-May-13 16:43
Re: Logbook doubts 512 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 09:38
Re: Logbook doubts 473 Merrell 20-May-13 13:29
Re: Logbook doubts 609 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 13:58
Re: Logbook doubts 483 Merrell 20-May-13 14:55
Re: Logbook doubts 505 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:46
Re: Logbook doubts 542 HungryHun 20-May-13 22:02
Re: Logbook doubts 500 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:05
Re: Logbook doubts 517 sfbey 20-May-13 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 509 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:35
Re: Logbook doubts 519 sfbey 21-May-13 15:41
Moghrah 523 Merrell 21-May-13 18:09
Re: Logbook doubts 405 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 23:38
Re: Logbook doubts 427 Merrell 21-May-13 21:34
Re: Logbook doubts 444 Audrey 22-May-13 02:34
Re: Logbook doubts 485 Merrell 21-May-13 21:58
Re: Logbook doubts 509 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 10:42
Re: Logbook doubts 466 Merrell 22-May-13 11:43
Re: Logbook doubts 448 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 17:44
Re: Logbook doubts 392 Nejc 22-May-13 23:18
Re: Logbook doubts 374 cladking 23-May-13 00:51
Re: Logbook doubts 391 Merrell 23-May-13 08:41
Re: Logbook doubts 427 Martin Stower 20-May-13 19:19
Re: Logbook doubts 341 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 19:35
Re: Logbook doubts 460 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:59
Moderator Warning 604 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:12
Moderator Warning 447 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:11
Re: exercise elementary caution about sources 413 Thunderbird 20-May-13 19:36
Re: Logbook doubts 454 Audrey 22-May-13 02:50
Re: Logbook doubts 397 Merrell 22-May-13 12:53
Re: Logbook doubts 369 Audrey 24-May-13 01:48
Moderator Caution 331 Hoppy 22-May-13 12:55
Re: Logbook doubts 336 Martin Stower 22-May-13 16:06
Re: Logbook doubts 296 Audrey 24-May-13 01:41
Re: Logbook doubts 300 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:56
Re: Logbook doubts 284 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:40
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 364 Thanos5150 16-May-13 19:41
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 367 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 21:56
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 310 Thanos5150 16-May-13 23:11
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 295 Dr. Troglodyte 17-May-13 00:01
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 331 Thanos5150 17-May-13 00:30
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 300 cladking 16-May-13 21:50
Moderator Caution 340 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:09
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 264 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:53
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 308 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 17:40
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 299 Martin Stower 13-May-13 18:32
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 379 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 19:23
Moderator Caution #2 222 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:18
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 255 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:52
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 298 Nejc 11-May-13 13:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 279 JonnyMcA 11-May-13 18:41
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 280 Audrey 12-May-13 07:59
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 255 JonnyMcA 12-May-13 09:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 311 HungryHun 12-May-13 13:00
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 254 HungryHun 13-May-13 12:46
Re: Caviglia's complaint.... 264 Thunderbird 13-May-13 16:20
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 262 HungryHun 13-May-13 19:36
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 257 Martin Stower 15-May-13 15:04
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 246 HungryHun 16-May-13 10:03
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 261 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 237 Merrell 16-May-13 16:33
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 261 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:02
Re: If fake, then... what? 287 MJT 16-May-13 12:45
More Vyse wickedness 277 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:14
Re: More Vyse wickedness 357 Scott Creighton 19-May-13 09:01
Re: More Vyse wickedness 364 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:44
Re: More Vyse wickedness 400 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:56
Re: More Vyse wickedness 409 jamesglory 21-May-13 10:26
Re: More Vyse wickedness 379 Audrey 22-May-13 02:42
Moderator Caution 308 Hoppy 20-May-13 17:57
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 298 Audrey 14-Jun-14 21:11
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 266 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:49
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 274 Scott Creighton 15-Jun-14 00:13
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 302 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 00:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 277 cladking 15-Jun-14 01:12
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 260 Sirfiroth 15-Jun-14 19:09
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 302 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:40
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 287 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:32
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 395 eyeofhorus33 16-Jun-14 18:38
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 282 Audrey 23-Jun-14 03:15
Australian Funeral 319 molder 15-Jun-14 05:03
Re: Australian Funeral 436 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:56
Re: Australian Funeral 256 molder 16-Jun-14 12:06
Re: Australian Funeral 267 cladking 16-Jun-14 16:50
Re: Australian Funeral 245 Audrey 23-Jun-14 01:58
Re: Australian Funeral 287 molder 19-Jun-14 07:25
Re: Australian Funeral 260 molder 20-Jun-14 10:28
Re: Australian Funeral/North American Funeral 248 molder 22-Jun-14 06:53

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