Mysteries :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
Welcome! Log InRegister
And around in circles the merry-go-round travels. One would have thought the number of times we've gone round on this we'd all be spewing our guts by now. Nevertheless, once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more.....

Quote

MS: So the full chain of hearsay is this:

Humphries Brewer → William Marchant Brewer → Helen Pattengill (née Brewer) → Walter’s mother → Walter M. Allen → Zecharia Sitchin

SC: What? Are you having a giggle here or what? Surely you jest? Surely you understand the difference between a primary source and secondary source? Who first wrote the words "Faint marks were repainted, some were new"? Was it Walter Allen or was it Sitchin? Yes, Stower - it was Walter Allen. Sitchin merely QUOTED Walter Allen. You do understand the difference, Stower, don't you? Of course you do:

Quote

"...By the way, despite the way you've quoted it, I didn't write the article." - Martin Stower

So, you clearly understand the difference between someone who WRITES an original piece (the original source) and someone who subsequently QUOTES that original source. Is it then the case on Planet Stower that anyone who QUOTES someone else is to be held responsible and accountable for the original quote? In short, is the person who delivers the message responsible for the content of the message? Am I responsible for something Hawass wrote simply because I presented his quote in my last book? Of course I am not and by your statement above, I do not believe you really do consider that to be the case either. So do tell us then, Stower, why do you insist that Sitchin is somehow responsible for something written entirely by someone else and which he (Sitchin) was merely the messenger (i.e. Sitchin was merely the person who made public Walter Allen's hitherto private notes)? Explain yourself.

Quote

MS: To complete your analogy:

The person who slips you the note is a known liar.

SC: Irrelevant because the "known liar" did not write the note. See above about primary and secondary sources.

Quote

MS: The known fraudster was never convicted of fraud.

SC: Charges were certainly leveled against him but he certainly wasn't formally convicted. However, he DID fraudulently secure for himself 932 votes in the 1807 election and, as such, he SHOULD have been convicted for it:

Quote

Vyse is known to have paid all but 78 of those who voted for him at the rate of £3 8s. for a plumper and £1 14s. for a split vote. - From your own link.

That's 932 crimes, 932 instances of electoral fraud, 932 fraudulent notes/votes. So, regardless of there not being a formal conviction (did partisan politics prevent Staple's Petition from succeeding as was often the case in those times? Did Tricky Dicky pay Staple to drop his Petition?), the evidence is very clear that Tricky Dicky was a fraudster nonetheless, a view you evidently share, to wit:

Quote

"Not that this lets him [Howard-Vyse] off the hook: it looks like the petition [of Philip Staple] should have succeeded." - Martin Stower

SC: I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment and I am sure many others will too. With the benefit of historical perspective, Tricky Dicky has been found guilty as charged in the court of public opinion.

Quote

MS: The known fraudster was never caught passing dud banknotes.

SC: He certainly secured 932 fraudulent notes/votes - see your link above. With regards to the latest fraud allegations, the jury is still out.

Quote

MS: Experts say the banknotes he did pass are genuine.

SC: And incredulously they came to that conclusion without any forensic tests being done whatsoever. The experts simply accepted the fraudster on his word.

Quote

MS: The fraud of which there is some evidence is one perpetrated also by such well-known moral lepers as William Wilberforce and Lord Cochrane.

SC: Tricky-Dicky perpetrated fraud. See your own quote above, in which you imply such. All that is needed now is further evidence to either convict or exonerate him of the latest fraud allegation.

SC



Post Edited (18-May-13 11:02)

Options: ReplyQuote


Subject Views Written By Posted
Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 1135 Dr. Troglodyte 10-May-13 20:14
William Wilberforce, crook 537 Martin Stower 11-May-13 12:17
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 502 Nejc 11-May-13 16:15
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 512 Merrell 11-May-13 18:36
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 508 Scott Creighton 12-May-13 11:27
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 586 Merrell 12-May-13 22:37
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 549 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 11:03
Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, excavator 456 Merrell 13-May-13 13:11
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 504 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 13:21
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 523 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:14
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 416 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:16
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 499 Merrell 14-May-13 09:41
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 498 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:47
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 506 Martin Stower 15-May-13 11:18
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 599 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 12:02
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 510 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:26
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 454 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 15:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 578 Martin Stower 16-May-13 09:55
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 489 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:04
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 488 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:34
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 437 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:43
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 507 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 569 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:09
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 494 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:31
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 465 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:36
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 464 cladking 16-May-13 15:14
Re: What are they so afraid of? 551 Thunderbird 16-May-13 15:55
Re: What are they so afraid of? 495 cladking 16-May-13 21:40
Calling Dr. Schoch 576 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 16:04
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 566 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 16:26
Logbook doubts 483 Merrell 16-May-13 21:38
Re: Logbook doubts 538 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 22:46
Re: Logbook doubts 434 Merrell 16-May-13 23:25
Re: Logbook doubts 503 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 08:00
Re: Logbook doubts 495 Merrell 17-May-13 14:30
Re: Logbook doubts 522 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 14:56
Re: Logbook doubts 490 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:11
Re: Logbook doubts 475 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:53
Re: Logbook doubts 443 MJT 17-May-13 22:31
Re: Logbook doubts 528 Merrell 18-May-13 11:23
Re: Logbook doubts 587 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 12:10
Re: Logbook doubts 613 Martin Stower 20-May-13 17:54
Re: Logbook doubts 418 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 00:20
Re: Logbook doubts 498 Morten 21-May-13 09:03
Re: Logbook doubts 542 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:22
Re: Logbook doubts 544 Merrell 21-May-13 10:26
Re: Logbook doubts 472 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:35
Re: Logbook doubts 507 Merrell 21-May-13 13:46
Re: Logbook doubts 422 Morten 21-May-13 10:40
Re: Logbook doubts 507 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 11:04
Re: Logbook doubts 519 Morten 21-May-13 11:29
Re: Logbook doubts 547 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 12:04
Re: Logbook doubts 503 Morten 21-May-13 13:19
Re: Logbook doubts 600 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 13:33
Re: Logbook doubts 501 Merrell 21-May-13 14:16
Re: Logbook doubts 507 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:27
Re: Logbook doubts 549 Merrell 21-May-13 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 529 Morten 21-May-13 14:37
Re: Logbook doubts 496 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:54
Re: Logbook doubts 526 Morten 22-May-13 10:51
Re: Logbook doubts 556 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:13
Re: Logbook doubts 434 Audrey 22-May-13 02:20
Re: Logbook doubts 496 Morten 22-May-13 08:18
Re: Logbook doubts 460 Martin Stower 22-May-13 15:02
Re: Logbook doubts 476 Audrey 24-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 668 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:43
Re: Logbook doubts 391 Audrey 24-May-13 01:10
Re: Logbook doubts 421 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 13:15
Re: Logbook doubts 535 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 18:17
Re: Logbook doubts 520 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 22:01
Re: Logbook doubts 460 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 22:15
Re:Khufu....Hyksos? 493 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 01:36
Re: Logbook doubts 486 Audrey 11-Jun-14 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 592 eyeofhorus33 11-Jun-14 22:18
Re: Logbook doubts 520 Audrey 12-Jun-14 21:22
Re: Logbook doubts 460 eyeofhorus33 12-Jun-14 22:20
Re: Logbook doubts 461 cladking 13-Jun-14 00:24
Re: Logbook doubts 443 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 22:53
Re: Logbook doubts 450 cladking 13-Jun-14 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 459 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 455 cladking 14-Jun-14 00:17
Re: Logbook doubts 479 Audrey 14-Jun-14 02:17
Re: Logbook doubts 531 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 11:44
Re: Logbook doubts 477 cladking 14-Jun-14 15:25
context and customs 423 Audrey 14-Jun-14 19:25
Re: context and customs 416 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:23
Re: Logbook doubts 485 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 21:29
Re: Logbook doubts 471 cladking 14-Jun-14 22:07
Re: Logbook doubts 462 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 23:04
Re: Logbook doubts 495 cladking 15-Jun-14 00:29
Re: Logbook doubts 489 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 18:35
Re: Logbook doubts 467 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:56
Re: Logbook doubts 483 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 21:26
Language doubts 439 cladking 15-Jun-14 21:48
Re: Language doubts 445 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 22:05
Re: Language doubts 458 cladking 15-Jun-14 22:51
Re: Language doubts 455 Audrey 16-Jun-14 04:17
Re: Language doubts 505 cladking 16-Jun-14 04:51
Re: Logbook doubts 373 cladking 12-Jun-14 22:57
Re:doubts 482 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 23:36
Re:doubts 443 Audrey 12-Jun-14 19:54
Moderator Notice 443 Hoppy 22-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 421 Audrey 22-May-13 02:52
Re: Logbook doubts 398 Martin Stower 18-May-13 13:37
Re: Logbook doubts 469 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 14:01
Re: Logbook doubts 450 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:52
Re: Logbook doubts 447 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:16
Re: Logbook doubts 530 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:57
Re: Logbook doubts 460 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:51
Re: Logbook doubts 435 Martin Stower 20-May-13 18:25
Re: Logbook doubts 312 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:49
Re: Logbook doubts 486 Martin Stower 21-May-13 15:42
Re: Logbook doubts 456 HungryHun 17-May-13 15:20
Re: Conspired.... 464 Thunderbird 17-May-13 15:47
Re: Conspired.... 461 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:04
Re: Conspired.... 433 Thunderbird 17-May-13 23:17
Re: Conspired....inspire d by money 488 Ratcho 03-Jun-13 05:57
Re: Logbook doubts 404 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:23
Re: Logbook doubts 460 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:28
Re: Logbook doubts 460 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:25
Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 440 LonelyAngel 29-May-13 14:41
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 417 Nejc 29-May-13 23:23
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 431 Merrell 30-May-13 09:25
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 486 Martin Stower 30-May-13 12:48
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 467 WINDINWATERS 30-May-13 14:40
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 366 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:00
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 428 WINDINWATERS 31-May-13 21:47
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 413 LonelyAngel 30-May-13 17:43
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 416 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:24
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 472 cladking 01-Jun-13 03:28
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 460 Merrell 01-Jun-13 11:02
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 398 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:59
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 417 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 633 Martin Stower 17-May-13 15:51
Re: Logbook doubts 461 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:27
Re: Logbook doubts 484 Nejc 17-May-13 22:28
Re: Logbook doubts 884 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:43
Re: Logbook doubts 726 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:12
Re: Logbook doubts 535 Merrell 19-May-13 16:43
Re: Logbook doubts 467 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 09:38
Re: Logbook doubts 428 Merrell 20-May-13 13:29
Re: Logbook doubts 554 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 13:58
Re: Logbook doubts 440 Merrell 20-May-13 14:55
Re: Logbook doubts 462 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:46
Re: Logbook doubts 494 HungryHun 20-May-13 22:02
Re: Logbook doubts 460 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:05
Re: Logbook doubts 473 sfbey 20-May-13 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 462 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:35
Re: Logbook doubts 476 sfbey 21-May-13 15:41
Moghrah 481 Merrell 21-May-13 18:09
Re: Logbook doubts 361 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 23:38
Re: Logbook doubts 383 Merrell 21-May-13 21:34
Re: Logbook doubts 395 Audrey 22-May-13 02:34
Re: Logbook doubts 438 Merrell 21-May-13 21:58
Re: Logbook doubts 461 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 10:42
Re: Logbook doubts 421 Merrell 22-May-13 11:43
Re: Logbook doubts 399 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 17:44
Re: Logbook doubts 339 Nejc 22-May-13 23:18
Re: Logbook doubts 334 cladking 23-May-13 00:51
Re: Logbook doubts 347 Merrell 23-May-13 08:41
Re: Logbook doubts 378 Martin Stower 20-May-13 19:19
Re: Logbook doubts 291 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 19:35
Re: Logbook doubts 417 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:59
Moderator Warning 492 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:12
Moderator Warning 401 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:11
Re: exercise elementary caution about sources 366 Thunderbird 20-May-13 19:36
Re: Logbook doubts 411 Audrey 22-May-13 02:50
Re: Logbook doubts 354 Merrell 22-May-13 12:53
Re: Logbook doubts 331 Audrey 24-May-13 01:48
Moderator Caution 283 Hoppy 22-May-13 12:55
Re: Logbook doubts 269 Martin Stower 22-May-13 16:06
Re: Logbook doubts 253 Audrey 24-May-13 01:41
Re: Logbook doubts 249 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:56
Re: Logbook doubts 234 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:40
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 313 Thanos5150 16-May-13 19:41
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 283 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 21:56
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 270 Thanos5150 16-May-13 23:11
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 247 Dr. Troglodyte 17-May-13 00:01
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 286 Thanos5150 17-May-13 00:30
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 253 cladking 16-May-13 21:50
Moderator Caution 301 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:09
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 220 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:53
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 260 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 17:40
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 250 Martin Stower 13-May-13 18:32
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 227 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 19:23
Moderator Caution #2 176 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:18
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 208 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:52
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 250 Nejc 11-May-13 13:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 235 JonnyMcA 11-May-13 18:41
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 236 Audrey 12-May-13 07:59
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 215 JonnyMcA 12-May-13 09:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 268 HungryHun 12-May-13 13:00
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 209 HungryHun 13-May-13 12:46
Re: Caviglia's complaint.... 222 Thunderbird 13-May-13 16:20
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 218 HungryHun 13-May-13 19:36
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 210 Martin Stower 15-May-13 15:04
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 206 HungryHun 16-May-13 10:03
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 216 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 191 Merrell 16-May-13 16:33
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 217 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:02
Re: If fake, then... what? 244 MJT 16-May-13 12:45
More Vyse wickedness 233 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:14
Re: More Vyse wickedness 314 Scott Creighton 19-May-13 09:01
Re: More Vyse wickedness 325 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:44
Re: More Vyse wickedness 330 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:56
Re: More Vyse wickedness 367 jamesglory 21-May-13 10:26
Re: More Vyse wickedness 339 Audrey 22-May-13 02:42
Moderator Caution 265 Hoppy 20-May-13 17:57
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 252 Audrey 14-Jun-14 21:11
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 218 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:49
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 230 Scott Creighton 15-Jun-14 00:13
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 255 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 00:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 223 cladking 15-Jun-14 01:12
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 219 Sirfiroth 15-Jun-14 19:09
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 257 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:40
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 245 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:32
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 327 eyeofhorus33 16-Jun-14 18:38
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 242 Audrey 23-Jun-14 03:15
Australian Funeral 278 molder 15-Jun-14 05:03
Re: Australian Funeral 384 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:56
Re: Australian Funeral 217 molder 16-Jun-14 12:06
Re: Australian Funeral 219 cladking 16-Jun-14 16:50
Re: Australian Funeral 202 Audrey 23-Jun-14 01:58
Re: Australian Funeral 247 molder 19-Jun-14 07:25
Re: Australian Funeral 219 molder 20-Jun-14 10:28
Re: Australian Funeral/North American Funeral 198 molder 22-Jun-14 06:53


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.