Mysteries :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
Welcome! Log InRegister
And around in circles the merry-go-round travels. One would have thought the number of times we've gone round on this we'd all be spewing our guts by now. Nevertheless, once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more.....

Quote

MS: So the full chain of hearsay is this:

Humphries Brewer → William Marchant Brewer → Helen Pattengill (née Brewer) → Walter’s mother → Walter M. Allen → Zecharia Sitchin

SC: What? Are you having a giggle here or what? Surely you jest? Surely you understand the difference between a primary source and secondary source? Who first wrote the words "Faint marks were repainted, some were new"? Was it Walter Allen or was it Sitchin? Yes, Stower - it was Walter Allen. Sitchin merely QUOTED Walter Allen. You do understand the difference, Stower, don't you? Of course you do:

Quote

"...By the way, despite the way you've quoted it, I didn't write the article." - Martin Stower

So, you clearly understand the difference between someone who WRITES an original piece (the original source) and someone who subsequently QUOTES that original source. Is it then the case on Planet Stower that anyone who QUOTES someone else is to be held responsible and accountable for the original quote? In short, is the person who delivers the message responsible for the content of the message? Am I responsible for something Hawass wrote simply because I presented his quote in my last book? Of course I am not and by your statement above, I do not believe you really do consider that to be the case either. So do tell us then, Stower, why do you insist that Sitchin is somehow responsible for something written entirely by someone else and which he (Sitchin) was merely the messenger (i.e. Sitchin was merely the person who made public Walter Allen's hitherto private notes)? Explain yourself.

Quote

MS: To complete your analogy:

The person who slips you the note is a known liar.

SC: Irrelevant because the "known liar" did not write the note. See above about primary and secondary sources.

Quote

MS: The known fraudster was never convicted of fraud.

SC: Charges were certainly leveled against him but he certainly wasn't formally convicted. However, he DID fraudulently secure for himself 932 votes in the 1807 election and, as such, he SHOULD have been convicted for it:

Quote

Vyse is known to have paid all but 78 of those who voted for him at the rate of £3 8s. for a plumper and £1 14s. for a split vote. - From your own link.

That's 932 crimes, 932 instances of electoral fraud, 932 fraudulent notes/votes. So, regardless of there not being a formal conviction (did partisan politics prevent Staple's Petition from succeeding as was often the case in those times? Did Tricky Dicky pay Staple to drop his Petition?), the evidence is very clear that Tricky Dicky was a fraudster nonetheless, a view you evidently share, to wit:

Quote

"Not that this lets him [Howard-Vyse] off the hook: it looks like the petition [of Philip Staple] should have succeeded." - Martin Stower

SC: I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment and I am sure many others will too. With the benefit of historical perspective, Tricky Dicky has been found guilty as charged in the court of public opinion.

Quote

MS: The known fraudster was never caught passing dud banknotes.

SC: He certainly secured 932 fraudulent notes/votes - see your link above. With regards to the latest fraud allegations, the jury is still out.

Quote

MS: Experts say the banknotes he did pass are genuine.

SC: And incredulously they came to that conclusion without any forensic tests being done whatsoever. The experts simply accepted the fraudster on his word.

Quote

MS: The fraud of which there is some evidence is one perpetrated also by such well-known moral lepers as William Wilberforce and Lord Cochrane.

SC: Tricky-Dicky perpetrated fraud. See your own quote above, in which you imply such. All that is needed now is further evidence to either convict or exonerate him of the latest fraud allegation.

SC



Post Edited (18-May-13 11:02)

Options: ReplyQuote


Subject Views Written By Posted
Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 1088 Dr. Troglodyte 10-May-13 20:14
William Wilberforce, crook 509 Martin Stower 11-May-13 12:17
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 473 Nejc 11-May-13 16:15
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 484 Merrell 11-May-13 18:36
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 478 Scott Creighton 12-May-13 11:27
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 558 Merrell 12-May-13 22:37
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 519 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 11:03
Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, excavator 428 Merrell 13-May-13 13:11
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 478 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 13:21
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 491 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:14
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 388 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:16
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 466 Merrell 14-May-13 09:41
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 471 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:47
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 477 Martin Stower 15-May-13 11:18
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 566 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 12:02
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 482 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:26
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 425 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 15:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 528 Martin Stower 16-May-13 09:55
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 463 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:04
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 458 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:34
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 405 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:43
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 478 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 535 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:09
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 469 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:31
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 437 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:36
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 439 cladking 16-May-13 15:14
Re: What are they so afraid of? 523 Thunderbird 16-May-13 15:55
Re: What are they so afraid of? 469 cladking 16-May-13 21:40
Calling Dr. Schoch 540 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 16:04
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 540 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 16:26
Logbook doubts 454 Merrell 16-May-13 21:38
Re: Logbook doubts 513 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 22:46
Re: Logbook doubts 407 Merrell 16-May-13 23:25
Re: Logbook doubts 473 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 08:00
Re: Logbook doubts 467 Merrell 17-May-13 14:30
Re: Logbook doubts 452 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 14:56
Re: Logbook doubts 463 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:11
Re: Logbook doubts 449 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:53
Re: Logbook doubts 416 MJT 17-May-13 22:31
Re: Logbook doubts 503 Merrell 18-May-13 11:23
Re: Logbook doubts 557 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 12:10
Re: Logbook doubts 575 Martin Stower 20-May-13 17:54
Re: Logbook doubts 387 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 00:20
Re: Logbook doubts 468 Morten 21-May-13 09:03
Re: Logbook doubts 516 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:22
Re: Logbook doubts 515 Merrell 21-May-13 10:26
Re: Logbook doubts 442 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:35
Re: Logbook doubts 478 Merrell 21-May-13 13:46
Re: Logbook doubts 394 Morten 21-May-13 10:40
Re: Logbook doubts 480 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 11:04
Re: Logbook doubts 490 Morten 21-May-13 11:29
Re: Logbook doubts 511 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 12:04
Re: Logbook doubts 479 Morten 21-May-13 13:19
Re: Logbook doubts 559 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 13:33
Re: Logbook doubts 476 Merrell 21-May-13 14:16
Re: Logbook doubts 477 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:27
Re: Logbook doubts 518 Merrell 21-May-13 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 501 Morten 21-May-13 14:37
Re: Logbook doubts 469 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:54
Re: Logbook doubts 499 Morten 22-May-13 10:51
Re: Logbook doubts 530 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:13
Re: Logbook doubts 406 Audrey 22-May-13 02:20
Re: Logbook doubts 468 Morten 22-May-13 08:18
Re: Logbook doubts 433 Martin Stower 22-May-13 15:02
Re: Logbook doubts 446 Audrey 24-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 631 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:43
Re: Logbook doubts 363 Audrey 24-May-13 01:10
Re: Logbook doubts 402 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 13:15
Re: Logbook doubts 505 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 18:17
Re: Logbook doubts 496 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 22:01
Re: Logbook doubts 439 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 22:15
Re:Khufu....Hyksos? 471 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 01:36
Re: Logbook doubts 462 Audrey 11-Jun-14 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 542 eyeofhorus33 11-Jun-14 22:18
Re: Logbook doubts 492 Audrey 12-Jun-14 21:22
Re: Logbook doubts 434 eyeofhorus33 12-Jun-14 22:20
Re: Logbook doubts 437 cladking 13-Jun-14 00:24
Re: Logbook doubts 420 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 22:53
Re: Logbook doubts 427 cladking 13-Jun-14 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 436 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 432 cladking 14-Jun-14 00:17
Re: Logbook doubts 456 Audrey 14-Jun-14 02:17
Re: Logbook doubts 505 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 11:44
Re: Logbook doubts 454 cladking 14-Jun-14 15:25
context and customs 401 Audrey 14-Jun-14 19:25
Re: context and customs 392 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:23
Re: Logbook doubts 467 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 21:29
Re: Logbook doubts 448 cladking 14-Jun-14 22:07
Re: Logbook doubts 438 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 23:04
Re: Logbook doubts 467 cladking 15-Jun-14 00:29
Re: Logbook doubts 468 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 18:35
Re: Logbook doubts 443 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:56
Re: Logbook doubts 454 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 21:26
Language doubts 414 cladking 15-Jun-14 21:48
Re: Language doubts 421 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 22:05
Re: Language doubts 434 cladking 15-Jun-14 22:51
Re: Language doubts 433 Audrey 16-Jun-14 04:17
Re: Language doubts 481 cladking 16-Jun-14 04:51
Re: Logbook doubts 349 cladking 12-Jun-14 22:57
Re:doubts 460 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 23:36
Re:doubts 418 Audrey 12-Jun-14 19:54
Moderator Notice 402 Hoppy 22-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 393 Audrey 22-May-13 02:52
Re: Logbook doubts 378 Martin Stower 18-May-13 13:37
Re: Logbook doubts 442 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 14:01
Re: Logbook doubts 426 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:52
Re: Logbook doubts 424 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:16
Re: Logbook doubts 506 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:57
Re: Logbook doubts 438 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:51
Re: Logbook doubts 409 Martin Stower 20-May-13 18:25
Re: Logbook doubts 286 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:49
Re: Logbook doubts 465 Martin Stower 21-May-13 15:42
Re: Logbook doubts 432 HungryHun 17-May-13 15:20
Re: Conspired.... 443 Thunderbird 17-May-13 15:47
Re: Conspired.... 438 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:04
Re: Conspired.... 409 Thunderbird 17-May-13 23:17
Re: Conspired....inspire d by money 440 Ratcho 03-Jun-13 05:57
Re: Logbook doubts 379 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:23
Re: Logbook doubts 437 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:28
Re: Logbook doubts 437 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:25
Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 417 LonelyAngel 29-May-13 14:41
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 393 Nejc 29-May-13 23:23
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 407 Merrell 30-May-13 09:25
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 460 Martin Stower 30-May-13 12:48
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 443 WINDINWATERS 30-May-13 14:40
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 342 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:00
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 402 WINDINWATERS 31-May-13 21:47
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 388 LonelyAngel 30-May-13 17:43
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 388 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:24
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 451 cladking 01-Jun-13 03:28
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 433 Merrell 01-Jun-13 11:02
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 376 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:59
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 394 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 604 Martin Stower 17-May-13 15:51
Re: Logbook doubts 434 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:27
Re: Logbook doubts 456 Nejc 17-May-13 22:28
Re: Logbook doubts 829 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:43
Re: Logbook doubts 686 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:12
Re: Logbook doubts 513 Merrell 19-May-13 16:43
Re: Logbook doubts 445 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 09:38
Re: Logbook doubts 405 Merrell 20-May-13 13:29
Re: Logbook doubts 532 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 13:58
Re: Logbook doubts 414 Merrell 20-May-13 14:55
Re: Logbook doubts 435 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:46
Re: Logbook doubts 473 HungryHun 20-May-13 22:02
Re: Logbook doubts 437 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:05
Re: Logbook doubts 448 sfbey 20-May-13 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 443 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:35
Re: Logbook doubts 452 sfbey 21-May-13 15:41
Moghrah 458 Merrell 21-May-13 18:09
Re: Logbook doubts 337 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 23:38
Re: Logbook doubts 362 Merrell 21-May-13 21:34
Re: Logbook doubts 368 Audrey 22-May-13 02:34
Re: Logbook doubts 415 Merrell 21-May-13 21:58
Re: Logbook doubts 432 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 10:42
Re: Logbook doubts 389 Merrell 22-May-13 11:43
Re: Logbook doubts 374 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 17:44
Re: Logbook doubts 317 Nejc 22-May-13 23:18
Re: Logbook doubts 312 cladking 23-May-13 00:51
Re: Logbook doubts 322 Merrell 23-May-13 08:41
Re: Logbook doubts 352 Martin Stower 20-May-13 19:19
Re: Logbook doubts 264 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 19:35
Re: Logbook doubts 392 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:59
Moderator Warning 464 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:12
Moderator Warning 380 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:11
Re: exercise elementary caution about sources 343 Thunderbird 20-May-13 19:36
Re: Logbook doubts 386 Audrey 22-May-13 02:50
Re: Logbook doubts 331 Merrell 22-May-13 12:53
Re: Logbook doubts 307 Audrey 24-May-13 01:48
Moderator Caution 257 Hoppy 22-May-13 12:55
Re: Logbook doubts 228 Martin Stower 22-May-13 16:06
Re: Logbook doubts 222 Audrey 24-May-13 01:41
Re: Logbook doubts 224 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:56
Re: Logbook doubts 206 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:40
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 290 Thanos5150 16-May-13 19:41
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 256 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 21:56
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 242 Thanos5150 16-May-13 23:11
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 225 Dr. Troglodyte 17-May-13 00:01
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 261 Thanos5150 17-May-13 00:30
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 230 cladking 16-May-13 21:50
Moderator Caution 279 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:09
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 198 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:53
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 232 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 17:40
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 228 Martin Stower 13-May-13 18:32
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 160 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 19:23
Moderator Caution #2 152 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:18
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 184 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:52
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 221 Nejc 11-May-13 13:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 210 JonnyMcA 11-May-13 18:41
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 213 Audrey 12-May-13 07:59
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 193 JonnyMcA 12-May-13 09:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 246 HungryHun 12-May-13 13:00
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 187 HungryHun 13-May-13 12:46
Re: Caviglia's complaint.... 199 Thunderbird 13-May-13 16:20
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 193 HungryHun 13-May-13 19:36
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 183 Martin Stower 15-May-13 15:04
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 186 HungryHun 16-May-13 10:03
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 191 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 171 Merrell 16-May-13 16:33
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 193 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:02
Re: If fake, then... what? 223 MJT 16-May-13 12:45
More Vyse wickedness 209 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:14
Re: More Vyse wickedness 285 Scott Creighton 19-May-13 09:01
Re: More Vyse wickedness 298 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:44
Re: More Vyse wickedness 306 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:56
Re: More Vyse wickedness 341 jamesglory 21-May-13 10:26
Re: More Vyse wickedness 316 Audrey 22-May-13 02:42
Moderator Caution 243 Hoppy 20-May-13 17:57
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 230 Audrey 14-Jun-14 21:11
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 195 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:49
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 209 Scott Creighton 15-Jun-14 00:13
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 234 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 00:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 201 cladking 15-Jun-14 01:12
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 198 Sirfiroth 15-Jun-14 19:09
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 231 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:40
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 223 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:32
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 302 eyeofhorus33 16-Jun-14 18:38
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 218 Audrey 23-Jun-14 03:15
Australian Funeral 253 molder 15-Jun-14 05:03
Re: Australian Funeral 365 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:56
Re: Australian Funeral 191 molder 16-Jun-14 12:06
Re: Australian Funeral 198 cladking 16-Jun-14 16:50
Re: Australian Funeral 178 Audrey 23-Jun-14 01:58
Re: Australian Funeral 223 molder 19-Jun-14 07:25
Re: Australian Funeral 196 molder 20-Jun-14 10:28
Re: Australian Funeral/North American Funeral 177 molder 22-Jun-14 06:53


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.