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And around in circles the merry-go-round travels. One would have thought the number of times we've gone round on this we'd all be spewing our guts by now. Nevertheless, once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more.....

Quote

MS: So the full chain of hearsay is this:

Humphries Brewer → William Marchant Brewer → Helen Pattengill (née Brewer) → Walter’s mother → Walter M. Allen → Zecharia Sitchin

SC: What? Are you having a giggle here or what? Surely you jest? Surely you understand the difference between a primary source and secondary source? Who first wrote the words "Faint marks were repainted, some were new"? Was it Walter Allen or was it Sitchin? Yes, Stower - it was Walter Allen. Sitchin merely QUOTED Walter Allen. You do understand the difference, Stower, don't you? Of course you do:

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"...By the way, despite the way you've quoted it, I didn't write the article." - Martin Stower

So, you clearly understand the difference between someone who WRITES an original piece (the original source) and someone who subsequently QUOTES that original source. Is it then the case on Planet Stower that anyone who QUOTES someone else is to be held responsible and accountable for the original quote? In short, is the person who delivers the message responsible for the content of the message? Am I responsible for something Hawass wrote simply because I presented his quote in my last book? Of course I am not and by your statement above, I do not believe you really do consider that to be the case either. So do tell us then, Stower, why do you insist that Sitchin is somehow responsible for something written entirely by someone else and which he (Sitchin) was merely the messenger (i.e. Sitchin was merely the person who made public Walter Allen's hitherto private notes)? Explain yourself.

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MS: To complete your analogy:

The person who slips you the note is a known liar.

SC: Irrelevant because the "known liar" did not write the note. See above about primary and secondary sources.

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MS: The known fraudster was never convicted of fraud.

SC: Charges were certainly leveled against him but he certainly wasn't formally convicted. However, he DID fraudulently secure for himself 932 votes in the 1807 election and, as such, he SHOULD have been convicted for it:

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Vyse is known to have paid all but 78 of those who voted for him at the rate of £3 8s. for a plumper and £1 14s. for a split vote. - From your own link.

That's 932 crimes, 932 instances of electoral fraud, 932 fraudulent notes/votes. So, regardless of there not being a formal conviction (did partisan politics prevent Staple's Petition from succeeding as was often the case in those times? Did Tricky Dicky pay Staple to drop his Petition?), the evidence is very clear that Tricky Dicky was a fraudster nonetheless, a view you evidently share, to wit:

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"Not that this lets him [Howard-Vyse] off the hook: it looks like the petition [of Philip Staple] should have succeeded." - Martin Stower

SC: I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment and I am sure many others will too. With the benefit of historical perspective, Tricky Dicky has been found guilty as charged in the court of public opinion.

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MS: The known fraudster was never caught passing dud banknotes.

SC: He certainly secured 932 fraudulent notes/votes - see your link above. With regards to the latest fraud allegations, the jury is still out.

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MS: Experts say the banknotes he did pass are genuine.

SC: And incredulously they came to that conclusion without any forensic tests being done whatsoever. The experts simply accepted the fraudster on his word.

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MS: The fraud of which there is some evidence is one perpetrated also by such well-known moral lepers as William Wilberforce and Lord Cochrane.

SC: Tricky-Dicky perpetrated fraud. See your own quote above, in which you imply such. All that is needed now is further evidence to either convict or exonerate him of the latest fraud allegation.

SC



Post Edited (18-May-13 11:02)

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 1173 Dr. Troglodyte 10-May-13 20:14
William Wilberforce, crook 552 Martin Stower 11-May-13 12:17
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 520 Nejc 11-May-13 16:15
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 536 Merrell 11-May-13 18:36
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 527 Scott Creighton 12-May-13 11:27
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 605 Merrell 12-May-13 22:37
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 567 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 11:03
Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, excavator 475 Merrell 13-May-13 13:11
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 521 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 13:21
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 548 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:14
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 434 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:16
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 517 Merrell 14-May-13 09:41
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 519 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:47
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 559 Martin Stower 15-May-13 11:18
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 628 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 12:02
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 527 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:26
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 470 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 15:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 597 Martin Stower 16-May-13 09:55
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 510 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:04
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 506 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:34
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 459 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:43
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 522 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 588 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:09
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 513 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:31
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 485 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:36
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 483 cladking 16-May-13 15:14
Re: What are they so afraid of? 574 Thunderbird 16-May-13 15:55
Re: What are they so afraid of? 513 cladking 16-May-13 21:40
Calling Dr. Schoch 601 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 16:04
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 582 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 16:26
Logbook doubts 506 Merrell 16-May-13 21:38
Re: Logbook doubts 558 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 22:46
Re: Logbook doubts 451 Merrell 16-May-13 23:25
Re: Logbook doubts 520 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 08:00
Re: Logbook doubts 514 Merrell 17-May-13 14:30
Re: Logbook doubts 576 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 14:56
Re: Logbook doubts 513 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:11
Re: Logbook doubts 492 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:53
Re: Logbook doubts 462 MJT 17-May-13 22:31
Re: Logbook doubts 548 Merrell 18-May-13 11:23
Re: Logbook doubts 606 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 12:10
Re: Logbook doubts 639 Martin Stower 20-May-13 17:54
Re: Logbook doubts 436 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 00:20
Re: Logbook doubts 523 Morten 21-May-13 09:03
Re: Logbook doubts 566 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:22
Re: Logbook doubts 566 Merrell 21-May-13 10:26
Re: Logbook doubts 491 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:35
Re: Logbook doubts 525 Merrell 21-May-13 13:46
Re: Logbook doubts 442 Morten 21-May-13 10:40
Re: Logbook doubts 528 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 11:04
Re: Logbook doubts 538 Morten 21-May-13 11:29
Re: Logbook doubts 570 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 12:04
Re: Logbook doubts 520 Morten 21-May-13 13:19
Re: Logbook doubts 626 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 13:33
Re: Logbook doubts 521 Merrell 21-May-13 14:16
Re: Logbook doubts 524 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:27
Re: Logbook doubts 564 Merrell 21-May-13 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 549 Morten 21-May-13 14:37
Re: Logbook doubts 514 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:54
Re: Logbook doubts 549 Morten 22-May-13 10:51
Re: Logbook doubts 574 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:13
Re: Logbook doubts 488 Audrey 22-May-13 02:20
Re: Logbook doubts 515 Morten 22-May-13 08:18
Re: Logbook doubts 479 Martin Stower 22-May-13 15:02
Re: Logbook doubts 499 Audrey 24-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 719 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:43
Re: Logbook doubts 408 Audrey 24-May-13 01:10
Re: Logbook doubts 437 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 13:15
Re: Logbook doubts 553 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 18:17
Re: Logbook doubts 538 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 22:01
Re: Logbook doubts 480 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 22:15
Re:Khufu....Hyksos? 512 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 01:36
Re: Logbook doubts 502 Audrey 11-Jun-14 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 640 eyeofhorus33 11-Jun-14 22:18
Re: Logbook doubts 536 Audrey 12-Jun-14 21:22
Re: Logbook doubts 477 eyeofhorus33 12-Jun-14 22:20
Re: Logbook doubts 475 cladking 13-Jun-14 00:24
Re: Logbook doubts 460 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 22:53
Re: Logbook doubts 470 cladking 13-Jun-14 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 478 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 474 cladking 14-Jun-14 00:17
Re: Logbook doubts 495 Audrey 14-Jun-14 02:17
Re: Logbook doubts 552 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 11:44
Re: Logbook doubts 493 cladking 14-Jun-14 15:25
context and customs 438 Audrey 14-Jun-14 19:25
Re: context and customs 436 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:23
Re: Logbook doubts 502 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 21:29
Re: Logbook doubts 487 cladking 14-Jun-14 22:07
Re: Logbook doubts 480 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 23:04
Re: Logbook doubts 513 cladking 15-Jun-14 00:29
Re: Logbook doubts 505 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 18:35
Re: Logbook doubts 487 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:56
Re: Logbook doubts 501 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 21:26
Language doubts 457 cladking 15-Jun-14 21:48
Re: Language doubts 463 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 22:05
Re: Language doubts 473 cladking 15-Jun-14 22:51
Re: Language doubts 474 Audrey 16-Jun-14 04:17
Re: Language doubts 521 cladking 16-Jun-14 04:51
Re: Logbook doubts 393 cladking 12-Jun-14 22:57
Re:doubts 502 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 23:36
Re:doubts 460 Audrey 12-Jun-14 19:54
Moderator Notice 464 Hoppy 22-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 451 Audrey 22-May-13 02:52
Re: Logbook doubts 413 Martin Stower 18-May-13 13:37
Re: Logbook doubts 484 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 14:01
Re: Logbook doubts 469 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:52
Re: Logbook doubts 463 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:16
Re: Logbook doubts 551 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:57
Re: Logbook doubts 476 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:51
Re: Logbook doubts 457 Martin Stower 20-May-13 18:25
Re: Logbook doubts 332 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:49
Re: Logbook doubts 503 Martin Stower 21-May-13 15:42
Re: Logbook doubts 477 HungryHun 17-May-13 15:20
Re: Conspired.... 479 Thunderbird 17-May-13 15:47
Re: Conspired.... 476 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:04
Re: Conspired.... 451 Thunderbird 17-May-13 23:17
Re: Conspired....inspire d by money 513 Ratcho 03-Jun-13 05:57
Re: Logbook doubts 421 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:23
Re: Logbook doubts 479 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:28
Re: Logbook doubts 480 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:25
Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 457 LonelyAngel 29-May-13 14:41
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 437 Nejc 29-May-13 23:23
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 450 Merrell 30-May-13 09:25
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 505 Martin Stower 30-May-13 12:48
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 486 WINDINWATERS 30-May-13 14:40
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 386 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:00
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 446 WINDINWATERS 31-May-13 21:47
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 433 LonelyAngel 30-May-13 17:43
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 434 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:24
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 489 cladking 01-Jun-13 03:28
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 477 Merrell 01-Jun-13 11:02
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 420 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:59
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 439 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 650 Martin Stower 17-May-13 15:51
Re: Logbook doubts 482 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:27
Re: Logbook doubts 501 Nejc 17-May-13 22:28
Re: Logbook doubts 920 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:43
Re: Logbook doubts 754 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:12
Re: Logbook doubts 552 Merrell 19-May-13 16:43
Re: Logbook doubts 485 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 09:38
Re: Logbook doubts 445 Merrell 20-May-13 13:29
Re: Logbook doubts 570 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 13:58
Re: Logbook doubts 456 Merrell 20-May-13 14:55
Re: Logbook doubts 478 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:46
Re: Logbook doubts 513 HungryHun 20-May-13 22:02
Re: Logbook doubts 475 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:05
Re: Logbook doubts 491 sfbey 20-May-13 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 481 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:35
Re: Logbook doubts 494 sfbey 21-May-13 15:41
Moghrah 497 Merrell 21-May-13 18:09
Re: Logbook doubts 379 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 23:38
Re: Logbook doubts 402 Merrell 21-May-13 21:34
Re: Logbook doubts 415 Audrey 22-May-13 02:34
Re: Logbook doubts 457 Merrell 21-May-13 21:58
Re: Logbook doubts 478 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 10:42
Re: Logbook doubts 441 Merrell 22-May-13 11:43
Re: Logbook doubts 417 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 17:44
Re: Logbook doubts 358 Nejc 22-May-13 23:18
Re: Logbook doubts 348 cladking 23-May-13 00:51
Re: Logbook doubts 364 Merrell 23-May-13 08:41
Re: Logbook doubts 396 Martin Stower 20-May-13 19:19
Re: Logbook doubts 313 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 19:35
Re: Logbook doubts 434 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:59
Moderator Warning 510 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:12
Moderator Warning 419 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:11
Re: exercise elementary caution about sources 385 Thunderbird 20-May-13 19:36
Re: Logbook doubts 426 Audrey 22-May-13 02:50
Re: Logbook doubts 372 Merrell 22-May-13 12:53
Re: Logbook doubts 345 Audrey 24-May-13 01:48
Moderator Caution 304 Hoppy 22-May-13 12:55
Re: Logbook doubts 307 Martin Stower 22-May-13 16:06
Re: Logbook doubts 269 Audrey 24-May-13 01:41
Re: Logbook doubts 268 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:56
Re: Logbook doubts 256 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:40
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 336 Thanos5150 16-May-13 19:41
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 302 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 21:56
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 285 Thanos5150 16-May-13 23:11
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 267 Dr. Troglodyte 17-May-13 00:01
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 303 Thanos5150 17-May-13 00:30
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 270 cladking 16-May-13 21:50
Moderator Caution 314 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:09
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 235 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:53
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 279 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 17:40
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 271 Martin Stower 13-May-13 18:32
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 279 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 19:23
Moderator Caution #2 195 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:18
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 226 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:52
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 268 Nejc 11-May-13 13:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 253 JonnyMcA 11-May-13 18:41
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 255 Audrey 12-May-13 07:59
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 229 JonnyMcA 12-May-13 09:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 286 HungryHun 12-May-13 13:00
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 229 HungryHun 13-May-13 12:46
Re: Caviglia's complaint.... 237 Thunderbird 13-May-13 16:20
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 236 HungryHun 13-May-13 19:36
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 229 Martin Stower 15-May-13 15:04
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 223 HungryHun 16-May-13 10:03
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 235 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 211 Merrell 16-May-13 16:33
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 234 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:02
Re: If fake, then... what? 262 MJT 16-May-13 12:45
More Vyse wickedness 250 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:14
Re: More Vyse wickedness 329 Scott Creighton 19-May-13 09:01
Re: More Vyse wickedness 340 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:44
Re: More Vyse wickedness 345 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:56
Re: More Vyse wickedness 383 jamesglory 21-May-13 10:26
Re: More Vyse wickedness 353 Audrey 22-May-13 02:42
Moderator Caution 283 Hoppy 20-May-13 17:57
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 269 Audrey 14-Jun-14 21:11
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 238 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:49
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 247 Scott Creighton 15-Jun-14 00:13
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 275 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 00:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 247 cladking 15-Jun-14 01:12
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 234 Sirfiroth 15-Jun-14 19:09
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 275 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:40
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 263 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:32
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 367 eyeofhorus33 16-Jun-14 18:38
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 258 Audrey 23-Jun-14 03:15
Australian Funeral 293 molder 15-Jun-14 05:03
Re: Australian Funeral 409 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:56
Re: Australian Funeral 231 molder 16-Jun-14 12:06
Re: Australian Funeral 241 cladking 16-Jun-14 16:50
Re: Australian Funeral 219 Audrey 23-Jun-14 01:58
Re: Australian Funeral 261 molder 19-Jun-14 07:25
Re: Australian Funeral 235 molder 20-Jun-14 10:28
Re: Australian Funeral/North American Funeral 223 molder 22-Jun-14 06:53


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