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Merrell wrote:

> Scott Creighton wrote:
>
> > I do believe in an earlier post I already acknowledged that
> > the Allen/Brewer testimony COULD all be bunk.
>
> Some statements in the logbook do have some recognisable basis
> in fact. Other statements don't.
>
> > But given the
> > nature of Tricky Dicky, it COULD also be true
>
> You've already rejected evidence that Howard Vyse's behaviour
> in 1807 was no worse than most of the rest of the English
> political establishment. He viewed himself was as an
> honourable man - i.e., one who didn't go around forging
> inscriptions (especially as he didn't even understand what they
> were). Bestowing derogatory nicknames on him doesn't alter the
> situation.
>
> In my view, the statements in the logbook would have to be
> treated with caution, and compared with other evidence, before
> they can be admitted as evidence themselves.
>
> and it may
> > actually be Tricky Dick's testimony that isn't "safe". Hence
> > why I have consistently stated that perhaps the only way this
> > issue might be resolved one way or t'other is through the
> > gathering and analysis of further evidence and that can be
> > achieved by forensic analysis of the inscriptions in
> question.
> > Rightly or wrongly, the charge of fraud has been made against
> > Howard-Vyse (a known fraudster) and it must be thoroughly
> > investigated if we really want to get to the real truth of
> this
> > situation. Forensic analysis of the inscriptions might help
> us
> > do that.

You're entitled to your view. In my view the Brewer/Allen testimony, rightly or wrongly, casts a dark cloud over the claims of Tricky Dicky. And given what we have come to learn of Howard-Vyse's character, that becomes a very dark cloud indeed and calls into question Howard-Vyse's 'notes'. Furthermore, Howard-Vyse clearly made mistakes/contradictions in his own 'notes' so, on the basis of your argument, surely then Tricky Dicky's account should also "...be treated with caution, and compared with other evidence, before they can be admitted as evidence themselves."

Hence why I consider an independent forensic examination of the inscriptions to help settle the issue is a reasonable and responsible approach.

At the end of the day, the situation boils down to the analogy and question I presented you in a previous post which you did not answer - would you happily accept a fifty banknote from a known fraudster without checking it (even though the known fraudster was known to have done some good things with his fake banknotes)? The fraudster claims the banknote he has offered you is genuine. To compound matters further, someone slips you a note claiming that they saw the fraudster in his workshop that afternoon making fake banknotes. What would you do?

SC



Post Edited (17-May-13 10:37)

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 1134 Dr. Troglodyte 10-May-13 20:14
William Wilberforce, crook 535 Martin Stower 11-May-13 12:17
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 501 Nejc 11-May-13 16:15
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 511 Merrell 11-May-13 18:36
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 507 Scott Creighton 12-May-13 11:27
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 585 Merrell 12-May-13 22:37
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 548 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 11:03
Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, excavator 455 Merrell 13-May-13 13:11
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 503 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 13:21
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 522 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:14
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 414 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:16
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 498 Merrell 14-May-13 09:41
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 497 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:47
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 505 Martin Stower 15-May-13 11:18
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 599 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 12:02
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 509 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:26
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 453 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 15:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 577 Martin Stower 16-May-13 09:55
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 487 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:04
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 487 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:34
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 436 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:43
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 506 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 568 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:09
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 493 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:31
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 464 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:36
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 463 cladking 16-May-13 15:14
Re: What are they so afraid of? 550 Thunderbird 16-May-13 15:55
Re: What are they so afraid of? 494 cladking 16-May-13 21:40
Calling Dr. Schoch 575 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 16:04
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 565 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 16:26
Logbook doubts 482 Merrell 16-May-13 21:38
Re: Logbook doubts 537 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 22:46
Re: Logbook doubts 433 Merrell 16-May-13 23:25
Re: Logbook doubts 500 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 08:00
Re: Logbook doubts 494 Merrell 17-May-13 14:30
Re: Logbook doubts 520 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 14:56
Re: Logbook doubts 488 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:11
Re: Logbook doubts 473 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:53
Re: Logbook doubts 441 MJT 17-May-13 22:31
Re: Logbook doubts 527 Merrell 18-May-13 11:23
Re: Logbook doubts 586 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 12:10
Re: Logbook doubts 612 Martin Stower 20-May-13 17:54
Re: Logbook doubts 417 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 00:20
Re: Logbook doubts 497 Morten 21-May-13 09:03
Re: Logbook doubts 540 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:22
Re: Logbook doubts 541 Merrell 21-May-13 10:26
Re: Logbook doubts 471 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:35
Re: Logbook doubts 506 Merrell 21-May-13 13:46
Re: Logbook doubts 422 Morten 21-May-13 10:40
Re: Logbook doubts 506 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 11:04
Re: Logbook doubts 517 Morten 21-May-13 11:29
Re: Logbook doubts 547 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 12:04
Re: Logbook doubts 503 Morten 21-May-13 13:19
Re: Logbook doubts 600 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 13:33
Re: Logbook doubts 499 Merrell 21-May-13 14:16
Re: Logbook doubts 505 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:27
Re: Logbook doubts 548 Merrell 21-May-13 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 527 Morten 21-May-13 14:37
Re: Logbook doubts 495 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:54
Re: Logbook doubts 526 Morten 22-May-13 10:51
Re: Logbook doubts 556 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:13
Re: Logbook doubts 434 Audrey 22-May-13 02:20
Re: Logbook doubts 496 Morten 22-May-13 08:18
Re: Logbook doubts 459 Martin Stower 22-May-13 15:02
Re: Logbook doubts 474 Audrey 24-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 667 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:43
Re: Logbook doubts 391 Audrey 24-May-13 01:10
Re: Logbook doubts 420 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 13:15
Re: Logbook doubts 533 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 18:17
Re: Logbook doubts 519 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 22:01
Re: Logbook doubts 459 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 22:15
Re:Khufu....Hyksos? 491 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 01:36
Re: Logbook doubts 485 Audrey 11-Jun-14 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 590 eyeofhorus33 11-Jun-14 22:18
Re: Logbook doubts 518 Audrey 12-Jun-14 21:22
Re: Logbook doubts 459 eyeofhorus33 12-Jun-14 22:20
Re: Logbook doubts 459 cladking 13-Jun-14 00:24
Re: Logbook doubts 442 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 22:53
Re: Logbook doubts 447 cladking 13-Jun-14 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 456 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 454 cladking 14-Jun-14 00:17
Re: Logbook doubts 478 Audrey 14-Jun-14 02:17
Re: Logbook doubts 530 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 11:44
Re: Logbook doubts 475 cladking 14-Jun-14 15:25
context and customs 422 Audrey 14-Jun-14 19:25
Re: context and customs 415 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:23
Re: Logbook doubts 483 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 21:29
Re: Logbook doubts 470 cladking 14-Jun-14 22:07
Re: Logbook doubts 461 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 23:04
Re: Logbook doubts 494 cladking 15-Jun-14 00:29
Re: Logbook doubts 486 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 18:35
Re: Logbook doubts 466 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:56
Re: Logbook doubts 482 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 21:26
Language doubts 438 cladking 15-Jun-14 21:48
Re: Language doubts 443 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 22:05
Re: Language doubts 457 cladking 15-Jun-14 22:51
Re: Language doubts 455 Audrey 16-Jun-14 04:17
Re: Language doubts 504 cladking 16-Jun-14 04:51
Re: Logbook doubts 372 cladking 12-Jun-14 22:57
Re:doubts 481 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 23:36
Re:doubts 442 Audrey 12-Jun-14 19:54
Moderator Notice 442 Hoppy 22-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 419 Audrey 22-May-13 02:52
Re: Logbook doubts 396 Martin Stower 18-May-13 13:37
Re: Logbook doubts 466 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 14:01
Re: Logbook doubts 449 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:52
Re: Logbook doubts 446 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:16
Re: Logbook doubts 529 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:57
Re: Logbook doubts 459 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:51
Re: Logbook doubts 432 Martin Stower 20-May-13 18:25
Re: Logbook doubts 311 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:49
Re: Logbook doubts 485 Martin Stower 21-May-13 15:42
Re: Logbook doubts 455 HungryHun 17-May-13 15:20
Re: Conspired.... 463 Thunderbird 17-May-13 15:47
Re: Conspired.... 461 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:04
Re: Conspired.... 432 Thunderbird 17-May-13 23:17
Re: Conspired....inspire d by money 486 Ratcho 03-Jun-13 05:57
Re: Logbook doubts 403 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:23
Re: Logbook doubts 460 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:28
Re: Logbook doubts 459 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:25
Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 439 LonelyAngel 29-May-13 14:41
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 416 Nejc 29-May-13 23:23
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 428 Merrell 30-May-13 09:25
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 486 Martin Stower 30-May-13 12:48
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 465 WINDINWATERS 30-May-13 14:40
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 364 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:00
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 426 WINDINWATERS 31-May-13 21:47
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 412 LonelyAngel 30-May-13 17:43
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 415 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:24
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 471 cladking 01-Jun-13 03:28
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 459 Merrell 01-Jun-13 11:02
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 398 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:59
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 417 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 633 Martin Stower 17-May-13 15:51
Re: Logbook doubts 458 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:27
Re: Logbook doubts 482 Nejc 17-May-13 22:28
Re: Logbook doubts 883 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:43
Re: Logbook doubts 726 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:12
Re: Logbook doubts 534 Merrell 19-May-13 16:43
Re: Logbook doubts 466 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 09:38
Re: Logbook doubts 426 Merrell 20-May-13 13:29
Re: Logbook doubts 553 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 13:58
Re: Logbook doubts 439 Merrell 20-May-13 14:55
Re: Logbook doubts 461 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:46
Re: Logbook doubts 494 HungryHun 20-May-13 22:02
Re: Logbook doubts 458 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:05
Re: Logbook doubts 472 sfbey 20-May-13 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 462 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:35
Re: Logbook doubts 475 sfbey 21-May-13 15:41
Moghrah 480 Merrell 21-May-13 18:09
Re: Logbook doubts 359 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 23:38
Re: Logbook doubts 382 Merrell 21-May-13 21:34
Re: Logbook doubts 395 Audrey 22-May-13 02:34
Re: Logbook doubts 437 Merrell 21-May-13 21:58
Re: Logbook doubts 460 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 10:42
Re: Logbook doubts 420 Merrell 22-May-13 11:43
Re: Logbook doubts 397 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 17:44
Re: Logbook doubts 338 Nejc 22-May-13 23:18
Re: Logbook doubts 333 cladking 23-May-13 00:51
Re: Logbook doubts 345 Merrell 23-May-13 08:41
Re: Logbook doubts 377 Martin Stower 20-May-13 19:19
Re: Logbook doubts 290 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 19:35
Re: Logbook doubts 415 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:59
Moderator Warning 491 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:12
Moderator Warning 400 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:11
Re: exercise elementary caution about sources 365 Thunderbird 20-May-13 19:36
Re: Logbook doubts 411 Audrey 22-May-13 02:50
Re: Logbook doubts 352 Merrell 22-May-13 12:53
Re: Logbook doubts 330 Audrey 24-May-13 01:48
Moderator Caution 281 Hoppy 22-May-13 12:55
Re: Logbook doubts 267 Martin Stower 22-May-13 16:06
Re: Logbook doubts 252 Audrey 24-May-13 01:41
Re: Logbook doubts 248 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:56
Re: Logbook doubts 231 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:40
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 312 Thanos5150 16-May-13 19:41
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 282 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 21:56
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 270 Thanos5150 16-May-13 23:11
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 246 Dr. Troglodyte 17-May-13 00:01
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 286 Thanos5150 17-May-13 00:30
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 252 cladking 16-May-13 21:50
Moderator Caution 300 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:09
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 218 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:53
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 259 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 17:40
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 249 Martin Stower 13-May-13 18:32
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 226 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 19:23
Moderator Caution #2 174 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:18
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 207 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:52
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 249 Nejc 11-May-13 13:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 233 JonnyMcA 11-May-13 18:41
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 236 Audrey 12-May-13 07:59
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 214 JonnyMcA 12-May-13 09:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 268 HungryHun 12-May-13 13:00
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 209 HungryHun 13-May-13 12:46
Re: Caviglia's complaint.... 221 Thunderbird 13-May-13 16:20
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 217 HungryHun 13-May-13 19:36
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 208 Martin Stower 15-May-13 15:04
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 206 HungryHun 16-May-13 10:03
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 215 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 190 Merrell 16-May-13 16:33
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 216 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:02
Re: If fake, then... what? 242 MJT 16-May-13 12:45
More Vyse wickedness 232 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:14
Re: More Vyse wickedness 313 Scott Creighton 19-May-13 09:01
Re: More Vyse wickedness 324 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:44
Re: More Vyse wickedness 328 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:56
Re: More Vyse wickedness 366 jamesglory 21-May-13 10:26
Re: More Vyse wickedness 338 Audrey 22-May-13 02:42
Moderator Caution 263 Hoppy 20-May-13 17:57
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 251 Audrey 14-Jun-14 21:11
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 217 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:49
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 229 Scott Creighton 15-Jun-14 00:13
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 254 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 00:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 222 cladking 15-Jun-14 01:12
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 218 Sirfiroth 15-Jun-14 19:09
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 256 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:40
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 244 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:32
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 325 eyeofhorus33 16-Jun-14 18:38
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 242 Audrey 23-Jun-14 03:15
Australian Funeral 277 molder 15-Jun-14 05:03
Re: Australian Funeral 384 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:56
Re: Australian Funeral 216 molder 16-Jun-14 12:06
Re: Australian Funeral 217 cladking 16-Jun-14 16:50
Re: Australian Funeral 201 Audrey 23-Jun-14 01:58
Re: Australian Funeral 246 molder 19-Jun-14 07:25
Re: Australian Funeral 218 molder 20-Jun-14 10:28
Re: Australian Funeral/North American Funeral 196 molder 22-Jun-14 06:53


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