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Merrell wrote:

> Scott Creighton wrote:
>
> > I do believe in an earlier post I already acknowledged that
> > the Allen/Brewer testimony COULD all be bunk.
>
> Some statements in the logbook do have some recognisable basis
> in fact. Other statements don't.
>
> > But given the
> > nature of Tricky Dicky, it COULD also be true
>
> You've already rejected evidence that Howard Vyse's behaviour
> in 1807 was no worse than most of the rest of the English
> political establishment. He viewed himself was as an
> honourable man - i.e., one who didn't go around forging
> inscriptions (especially as he didn't even understand what they
> were). Bestowing derogatory nicknames on him doesn't alter the
> situation.
>
> In my view, the statements in the logbook would have to be
> treated with caution, and compared with other evidence, before
> they can be admitted as evidence themselves.
>
> and it may
> > actually be Tricky Dick's testimony that isn't "safe". Hence
> > why I have consistently stated that perhaps the only way this
> > issue might be resolved one way or t'other is through the
> > gathering and analysis of further evidence and that can be
> > achieved by forensic analysis of the inscriptions in
> question.
> > Rightly or wrongly, the charge of fraud has been made against
> > Howard-Vyse (a known fraudster) and it must be thoroughly
> > investigated if we really want to get to the real truth of
> this
> > situation. Forensic analysis of the inscriptions might help
> us
> > do that.

You're entitled to your view. In my view the Brewer/Allen testimony, rightly or wrongly, casts a dark cloud over the claims of Tricky Dicky. And given what we have come to learn of Howard-Vyse's character, that becomes a very dark cloud indeed and calls into question Howard-Vyse's 'notes'. Furthermore, Howard-Vyse clearly made mistakes/contradictions in his own 'notes' so, on the basis of your argument, surely then Tricky Dicky's account should also "...be treated with caution, and compared with other evidence, before they can be admitted as evidence themselves."

Hence why I consider an independent forensic examination of the inscriptions to help settle the issue is a reasonable and responsible approach.

At the end of the day, the situation boils down to the analogy and question I presented you in a previous post which you did not answer - would you happily accept a fifty banknote from a known fraudster without checking it (even though the known fraudster was known to have done some good things with his fake banknotes)? The fraudster claims the banknote he has offered you is genuine. To compound matters further, someone slips you a note claiming that they saw the fraudster in his workshop that afternoon making fake banknotes. What would you do?

SC



Post Edited (17-May-13 10:37)

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 1091 Dr. Troglodyte 10-May-13 20:14
William Wilberforce, crook 510 Martin Stower 11-May-13 12:17
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 475 Nejc 11-May-13 16:15
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 488 Merrell 11-May-13 18:36
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 479 Scott Creighton 12-May-13 11:27
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 561 Merrell 12-May-13 22:37
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 521 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 11:03
Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, excavator 430 Merrell 13-May-13 13:11
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 479 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 13:21
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 492 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:14
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 390 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:16
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 469 Merrell 14-May-13 09:41
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 474 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:47
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 479 Martin Stower 15-May-13 11:18
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 567 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 12:02
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 483 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:26
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 426 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 15:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 530 Martin Stower 16-May-13 09:55
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 464 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:04
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 460 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:34
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 408 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:43
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 480 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 540 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:09
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 471 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:31
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 439 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:36
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 441 cladking 16-May-13 15:14
Re: What are they so afraid of? 524 Thunderbird 16-May-13 15:55
Re: What are they so afraid of? 471 cladking 16-May-13 21:40
Calling Dr. Schoch 543 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 16:04
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 541 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 16:26
Logbook doubts 455 Merrell 16-May-13 21:38
Re: Logbook doubts 514 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 22:46
Re: Logbook doubts 408 Merrell 16-May-13 23:25
Re: Logbook doubts 474 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 08:00
Re: Logbook doubts 470 Merrell 17-May-13 14:30
Re: Logbook doubts 454 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 14:56
Re: Logbook doubts 464 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:11
Re: Logbook doubts 450 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:53
Re: Logbook doubts 417 MJT 17-May-13 22:31
Re: Logbook doubts 506 Merrell 18-May-13 11:23
Re: Logbook doubts 559 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 12:10
Re: Logbook doubts 576 Martin Stower 20-May-13 17:54
Re: Logbook doubts 389 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 00:20
Re: Logbook doubts 469 Morten 21-May-13 09:03
Re: Logbook doubts 517 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:22
Re: Logbook doubts 516 Merrell 21-May-13 10:26
Re: Logbook doubts 444 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:35
Re: Logbook doubts 480 Merrell 21-May-13 13:46
Re: Logbook doubts 398 Morten 21-May-13 10:40
Re: Logbook doubts 482 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 11:04
Re: Logbook doubts 491 Morten 21-May-13 11:29
Re: Logbook doubts 513 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 12:04
Re: Logbook doubts 481 Morten 21-May-13 13:19
Re: Logbook doubts 561 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 13:33
Re: Logbook doubts 478 Merrell 21-May-13 14:16
Re: Logbook doubts 478 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:27
Re: Logbook doubts 520 Merrell 21-May-13 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 502 Morten 21-May-13 14:37
Re: Logbook doubts 471 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:54
Re: Logbook doubts 501 Morten 22-May-13 10:51
Re: Logbook doubts 532 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:13
Re: Logbook doubts 408 Audrey 22-May-13 02:20
Re: Logbook doubts 470 Morten 22-May-13 08:18
Re: Logbook doubts 434 Martin Stower 22-May-13 15:02
Re: Logbook doubts 447 Audrey 24-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 634 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:43
Re: Logbook doubts 364 Audrey 24-May-13 01:10
Re: Logbook doubts 404 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 13:15
Re: Logbook doubts 507 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 18:17
Re: Logbook doubts 497 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 22:01
Re: Logbook doubts 440 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 22:15
Re:Khufu....Hyksos? 472 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 01:36
Re: Logbook doubts 464 Audrey 11-Jun-14 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 546 eyeofhorus33 11-Jun-14 22:18
Re: Logbook doubts 493 Audrey 12-Jun-14 21:22
Re: Logbook doubts 436 eyeofhorus33 12-Jun-14 22:20
Re: Logbook doubts 438 cladking 13-Jun-14 00:24
Re: Logbook doubts 421 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 22:53
Re: Logbook doubts 429 cladking 13-Jun-14 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 437 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 433 cladking 14-Jun-14 00:17
Re: Logbook doubts 457 Audrey 14-Jun-14 02:17
Re: Logbook doubts 507 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 11:44
Re: Logbook doubts 455 cladking 14-Jun-14 15:25
context and customs 403 Audrey 14-Jun-14 19:25
Re: context and customs 395 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:23
Re: Logbook doubts 468 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 21:29
Re: Logbook doubts 449 cladking 14-Jun-14 22:07
Re: Logbook doubts 440 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 23:04
Re: Logbook doubts 469 cladking 15-Jun-14 00:29
Re: Logbook doubts 469 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 18:35
Re: Logbook doubts 445 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:56
Re: Logbook doubts 456 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 21:26
Language doubts 416 cladking 15-Jun-14 21:48
Re: Language doubts 422 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 22:05
Re: Language doubts 435 cladking 15-Jun-14 22:51
Re: Language doubts 435 Audrey 16-Jun-14 04:17
Re: Language doubts 483 cladking 16-Jun-14 04:51
Re: Logbook doubts 352 cladking 12-Jun-14 22:57
Re:doubts 462 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 23:36
Re:doubts 421 Audrey 12-Jun-14 19:54
Moderator Notice 403 Hoppy 22-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 395 Audrey 22-May-13 02:52
Re: Logbook doubts 379 Martin Stower 18-May-13 13:37
Re: Logbook doubts 443 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 14:01
Re: Logbook doubts 428 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:52
Re: Logbook doubts 425 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:16
Re: Logbook doubts 508 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:57
Re: Logbook doubts 439 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:51
Re: Logbook doubts 410 Martin Stower 20-May-13 18:25
Re: Logbook doubts 289 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:49
Re: Logbook doubts 467 Martin Stower 21-May-13 15:42
Re: Logbook doubts 434 HungryHun 17-May-13 15:20
Re: Conspired.... 444 Thunderbird 17-May-13 15:47
Re: Conspired.... 440 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:04
Re: Conspired.... 411 Thunderbird 17-May-13 23:17
Re: Conspired....inspire d by money 441 Ratcho 03-Jun-13 05:57
Re: Logbook doubts 381 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:23
Re: Logbook doubts 439 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:28
Re: Logbook doubts 439 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:25
Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 419 LonelyAngel 29-May-13 14:41
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 396 Nejc 29-May-13 23:23
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 409 Merrell 30-May-13 09:25
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 462 Martin Stower 30-May-13 12:48
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 445 WINDINWATERS 30-May-13 14:40
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 345 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:00
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 404 WINDINWATERS 31-May-13 21:47
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 389 LonelyAngel 30-May-13 17:43
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 391 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:24
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 453 cladking 01-Jun-13 03:28
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 435 Merrell 01-Jun-13 11:02
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 378 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:59
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 395 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 607 Martin Stower 17-May-13 15:51
Re: Logbook doubts 436 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:27
Re: Logbook doubts 457 Nejc 17-May-13 22:28
Re: Logbook doubts 835 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:43
Re: Logbook doubts 689 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:12
Re: Logbook doubts 514 Merrell 19-May-13 16:43
Re: Logbook doubts 446 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 09:38
Re: Logbook doubts 406 Merrell 20-May-13 13:29
Re: Logbook doubts 533 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 13:58
Re: Logbook doubts 416 Merrell 20-May-13 14:55
Re: Logbook doubts 437 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:46
Re: Logbook doubts 474 HungryHun 20-May-13 22:02
Re: Logbook doubts 438 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:05
Re: Logbook doubts 451 sfbey 20-May-13 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 445 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:35
Re: Logbook doubts 454 sfbey 21-May-13 15:41
Moghrah 461 Merrell 21-May-13 18:09
Re: Logbook doubts 338 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 23:38
Re: Logbook doubts 364 Merrell 21-May-13 21:34
Re: Logbook doubts 372 Audrey 22-May-13 02:34
Re: Logbook doubts 417 Merrell 21-May-13 21:58
Re: Logbook doubts 434 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 10:42
Re: Logbook doubts 392 Merrell 22-May-13 11:43
Re: Logbook doubts 375 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 17:44
Re: Logbook doubts 318 Nejc 22-May-13 23:18
Re: Logbook doubts 314 cladking 23-May-13 00:51
Re: Logbook doubts 323 Merrell 23-May-13 08:41
Re: Logbook doubts 354 Martin Stower 20-May-13 19:19
Re: Logbook doubts 267 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 19:35
Re: Logbook doubts 394 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:59
Moderator Warning 465 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:12
Moderator Warning 381 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:11
Re: exercise elementary caution about sources 344 Thunderbird 20-May-13 19:36
Re: Logbook doubts 387 Audrey 22-May-13 02:50
Re: Logbook doubts 332 Merrell 22-May-13 12:53
Re: Logbook doubts 309 Audrey 24-May-13 01:48
Moderator Caution 258 Hoppy 22-May-13 12:55
Re: Logbook doubts 229 Martin Stower 22-May-13 16:06
Re: Logbook doubts 224 Audrey 24-May-13 01:41
Re: Logbook doubts 226 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:56
Re: Logbook doubts 207 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:40
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 292 Thanos5150 16-May-13 19:41
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 259 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 21:56
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 244 Thanos5150 16-May-13 23:11
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 226 Dr. Troglodyte 17-May-13 00:01
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 263 Thanos5150 17-May-13 00:30
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 231 cladking 16-May-13 21:50
Moderator Caution 281 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:09
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 199 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:53
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 235 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 17:40
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 229 Martin Stower 13-May-13 18:32
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 161 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 19:23
Moderator Caution #2 154 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:18
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 187 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:52
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 223 Nejc 11-May-13 13:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 211 JonnyMcA 11-May-13 18:41
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 215 Audrey 12-May-13 07:59
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 196 JonnyMcA 12-May-13 09:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 248 HungryHun 12-May-13 13:00
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 188 HungryHun 13-May-13 12:46
Re: Caviglia's complaint.... 201 Thunderbird 13-May-13 16:20
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 195 HungryHun 13-May-13 19:36
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 185 Martin Stower 15-May-13 15:04
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 188 HungryHun 16-May-13 10:03
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 194 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 172 Merrell 16-May-13 16:33
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 194 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:02
Re: If fake, then... what? 224 MJT 16-May-13 12:45
More Vyse wickedness 210 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:14
Re: More Vyse wickedness 293 Scott Creighton 19-May-13 09:01
Re: More Vyse wickedness 304 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:44
Re: More Vyse wickedness 307 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:56
Re: More Vyse wickedness 342 jamesglory 21-May-13 10:26
Re: More Vyse wickedness 317 Audrey 22-May-13 02:42
Moderator Caution 245 Hoppy 20-May-13 17:57
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 232 Audrey 14-Jun-14 21:11
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 198 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:49
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 211 Scott Creighton 15-Jun-14 00:13
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 235 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 00:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 203 cladking 15-Jun-14 01:12
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 201 Sirfiroth 15-Jun-14 19:09
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 233 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:40
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 224 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:32
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 304 eyeofhorus33 16-Jun-14 18:38
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 220 Audrey 23-Jun-14 03:15
Australian Funeral 255 molder 15-Jun-14 05:03
Re: Australian Funeral 367 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:56
Re: Australian Funeral 193 molder 16-Jun-14 12:06
Re: Australian Funeral 201 cladking 16-Jun-14 16:50
Re: Australian Funeral 179 Audrey 23-Jun-14 01:58
Re: Australian Funeral 224 molder 19-Jun-14 07:25
Re: Australian Funeral 198 molder 20-Jun-14 10:28
Re: Australian Funeral/North American Funeral 178 molder 22-Jun-14 06:53


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