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Merrell wrote:

> Scott Creighton wrote:
>
> > I do believe in an earlier post I already acknowledged that
> > the Allen/Brewer testimony COULD all be bunk.
>
> Some statements in the logbook do have some recognisable basis
> in fact. Other statements don't.
>
> > But given the
> > nature of Tricky Dicky, it COULD also be true
>
> You've already rejected evidence that Howard Vyse's behaviour
> in 1807 was no worse than most of the rest of the English
> political establishment. He viewed himself was as an
> honourable man - i.e., one who didn't go around forging
> inscriptions (especially as he didn't even understand what they
> were). Bestowing derogatory nicknames on him doesn't alter the
> situation.
>
> In my view, the statements in the logbook would have to be
> treated with caution, and compared with other evidence, before
> they can be admitted as evidence themselves.
>
> and it may
> > actually be Tricky Dick's testimony that isn't "safe". Hence
> > why I have consistently stated that perhaps the only way this
> > issue might be resolved one way or t'other is through the
> > gathering and analysis of further evidence and that can be
> > achieved by forensic analysis of the inscriptions in
> question.
> > Rightly or wrongly, the charge of fraud has been made against
> > Howard-Vyse (a known fraudster) and it must be thoroughly
> > investigated if we really want to get to the real truth of
> this
> > situation. Forensic analysis of the inscriptions might help
> us
> > do that.

You're entitled to your view. In my view the Brewer/Allen testimony, rightly or wrongly, casts a dark cloud over the claims of Tricky Dicky. And given what we have come to learn of Howard-Vyse's character, that becomes a very dark cloud indeed and calls into question Howard-Vyse's 'notes'. Furthermore, Howard-Vyse clearly made mistakes/contradictions in his own 'notes' so, on the basis of your argument, surely then Tricky Dicky's account should also "...be treated with caution, and compared with other evidence, before they can be admitted as evidence themselves."

Hence why I consider an independent forensic examination of the inscriptions to help settle the issue is a reasonable and responsible approach.

At the end of the day, the situation boils down to the analogy and question I presented you in a previous post which you did not answer - would you happily accept a fifty banknote from a known fraudster without checking it (even though the known fraudster was known to have done some good things with his fake banknotes)? The fraudster claims the banknote he has offered you is genuine. To compound matters further, someone slips you a note claiming that they saw the fraudster in his workshop that afternoon making fake banknotes. What would you do?

SC



Post Edited (17-May-13 10:37)

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 1226 Dr. Troglodyte 10-May-13 20:14
William Wilberforce, crook 577 Martin Stower 11-May-13 12:17
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 545 Nejc 11-May-13 16:15
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 561 Merrell 11-May-13 18:36
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 553 Scott Creighton 12-May-13 11:27
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 630 Merrell 12-May-13 22:37
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 595 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 11:03
Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, excavator 502 Merrell 13-May-13 13:11
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 549 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 13:21
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 579 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:14
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 461 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:16
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 547 Merrell 14-May-13 09:41
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 548 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:47
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 665 Martin Stower 15-May-13 11:18
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 669 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 12:02
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 554 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:26
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 496 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 15:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 625 Martin Stower 16-May-13 09:55
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 535 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:04
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 536 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:34
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 486 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:43
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 547 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 613 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:09
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 538 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:31
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 511 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:36
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 507 cladking 16-May-13 15:14
Re: What are they so afraid of? 603 Thunderbird 16-May-13 15:55
Re: What are they so afraid of? 540 cladking 16-May-13 21:40
Calling Dr. Schoch 633 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 16:04
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 627 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 16:26
Logbook doubts 540 Merrell 16-May-13 21:38
Re: Logbook doubts 584 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 22:46
Re: Logbook doubts 478 Merrell 16-May-13 23:25
Re: Logbook doubts 547 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 08:00
Re: Logbook doubts 540 Merrell 17-May-13 14:30
Re: Logbook doubts 750 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 14:56
Re: Logbook doubts 540 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:11
Re: Logbook doubts 519 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:53
Re: Logbook doubts 490 MJT 17-May-13 22:31
Re: Logbook doubts 575 Merrell 18-May-13 11:23
Re: Logbook doubts 645 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 12:10
Re: Logbook doubts 670 Martin Stower 20-May-13 17:54
Re: Logbook doubts 463 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 00:20
Re: Logbook doubts 553 Morten 21-May-13 09:03
Re: Logbook doubts 592 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:22
Re: Logbook doubts 591 Merrell 21-May-13 10:26
Re: Logbook doubts 517 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:35
Re: Logbook doubts 549 Merrell 21-May-13 13:46
Re: Logbook doubts 467 Morten 21-May-13 10:40
Re: Logbook doubts 556 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 11:04
Re: Logbook doubts 563 Morten 21-May-13 11:29
Re: Logbook doubts 599 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 12:04
Re: Logbook doubts 545 Morten 21-May-13 13:19
Re: Logbook doubts 655 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 13:33
Re: Logbook doubts 548 Merrell 21-May-13 14:16
Re: Logbook doubts 556 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:27
Re: Logbook doubts 613 Merrell 21-May-13 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 574 Morten 21-May-13 14:37
Re: Logbook doubts 540 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:54
Re: Logbook doubts 574 Morten 22-May-13 10:51
Re: Logbook doubts 600 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:13
Re: Logbook doubts 614 Audrey 22-May-13 02:20
Re: Logbook doubts 540 Morten 22-May-13 08:18
Re: Logbook doubts 510 Martin Stower 22-May-13 15:02
Re: Logbook doubts 524 Audrey 24-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 856 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:43
Re: Logbook doubts 437 Audrey 24-May-13 01:10
Re: Logbook doubts 461 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 13:15
Re: Logbook doubts 584 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 18:17
Re: Logbook doubts 566 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 22:01
Re: Logbook doubts 508 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 22:15
Re:Khufu....Hyksos? 540 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 01:36
Re: Logbook doubts 528 Audrey 11-Jun-14 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 779 eyeofhorus33 11-Jun-14 22:18
Re: Logbook doubts 562 Audrey 12-Jun-14 21:22
Re: Logbook doubts 503 eyeofhorus33 12-Jun-14 22:20
Re: Logbook doubts 502 cladking 13-Jun-14 00:24
Re: Logbook doubts 487 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 22:53
Re: Logbook doubts 500 cladking 13-Jun-14 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 503 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 501 cladking 14-Jun-14 00:17
Re: Logbook doubts 518 Audrey 14-Jun-14 02:17
Re: Logbook doubts 579 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 11:44
Re: Logbook doubts 518 cladking 14-Jun-14 15:25
context and customs 476 Audrey 14-Jun-14 19:25
Re: context and customs 462 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:23
Re: Logbook doubts 540 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 21:29
Re: Logbook doubts 512 cladking 14-Jun-14 22:07
Re: Logbook doubts 508 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 23:04
Re: Logbook doubts 540 cladking 15-Jun-14 00:29
Re: Logbook doubts 530 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 18:35
Re: Logbook doubts 519 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:56
Re: Logbook doubts 527 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 21:26
Language doubts 482 cladking 15-Jun-14 21:48
Re: Language doubts 490 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 22:05
Re: Language doubts 502 cladking 15-Jun-14 22:51
Re: Language doubts 499 Audrey 16-Jun-14 04:17
Re: Language doubts 544 cladking 16-Jun-14 04:51
Re: Logbook doubts 419 cladking 12-Jun-14 22:57
Re:doubts 544 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 23:36
Re:doubts 485 Audrey 12-Jun-14 19:54
Moderator Notice 490 Hoppy 22-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 479 Audrey 22-May-13 02:52
Re: Logbook doubts 440 Martin Stower 18-May-13 13:37
Re: Logbook doubts 509 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 14:01
Re: Logbook doubts 494 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:52
Re: Logbook doubts 490 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:16
Re: Logbook doubts 576 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:57
Re: Logbook doubts 503 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:51
Re: Logbook doubts 483 Martin Stower 20-May-13 18:25
Re: Logbook doubts 362 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:49
Re: Logbook doubts 528 Martin Stower 21-May-13 15:42
Re: Logbook doubts 507 HungryHun 17-May-13 15:20
Re: Conspired.... 504 Thunderbird 17-May-13 15:47
Re: Conspired.... 501 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:04
Re: Conspired.... 477 Thunderbird 17-May-13 23:17
Re: Conspired....inspire d by money 540 Ratcho 03-Jun-13 05:57
Re: Logbook doubts 447 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:23
Re: Logbook doubts 507 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:28
Re: Logbook doubts 507 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:25
Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 482 LonelyAngel 29-May-13 14:41
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 465 Nejc 29-May-13 23:23
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 476 Merrell 30-May-13 09:25
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 552 Martin Stower 30-May-13 12:48
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 515 WINDINWATERS 30-May-13 14:40
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 411 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:00
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 474 WINDINWATERS 31-May-13 21:47
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 462 LonelyAngel 30-May-13 17:43
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 462 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:24
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 516 cladking 01-Jun-13 03:28
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 504 Merrell 01-Jun-13 11:02
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 489 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:59
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 467 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 678 Martin Stower 17-May-13 15:51
Re: Logbook doubts 509 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:27
Re: Logbook doubts 525 Nejc 17-May-13 22:28
Re: Logbook doubts 968 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:43
Re: Logbook doubts 793 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:12
Re: Logbook doubts 577 Merrell 19-May-13 16:43
Re: Logbook doubts 512 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 09:38
Re: Logbook doubts 473 Merrell 20-May-13 13:29
Re: Logbook doubts 609 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 13:58
Re: Logbook doubts 484 Merrell 20-May-13 14:55
Re: Logbook doubts 505 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:46
Re: Logbook doubts 542 HungryHun 20-May-13 22:02
Re: Logbook doubts 500 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:05
Re: Logbook doubts 517 sfbey 20-May-13 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 509 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:35
Re: Logbook doubts 519 sfbey 21-May-13 15:41
Moghrah 523 Merrell 21-May-13 18:09
Re: Logbook doubts 406 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 23:38
Re: Logbook doubts 427 Merrell 21-May-13 21:34
Re: Logbook doubts 444 Audrey 22-May-13 02:34
Re: Logbook doubts 485 Merrell 21-May-13 21:58
Re: Logbook doubts 509 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 10:42
Re: Logbook doubts 466 Merrell 22-May-13 11:43
Re: Logbook doubts 448 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 17:44
Re: Logbook doubts 393 Nejc 22-May-13 23:18
Re: Logbook doubts 374 cladking 23-May-13 00:51
Re: Logbook doubts 391 Merrell 23-May-13 08:41
Re: Logbook doubts 427 Martin Stower 20-May-13 19:19
Re: Logbook doubts 341 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 19:35
Re: Logbook doubts 460 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:59
Moderator Warning 605 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:12
Moderator Warning 447 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:11
Re: exercise elementary caution about sources 413 Thunderbird 20-May-13 19:36
Re: Logbook doubts 454 Audrey 22-May-13 02:50
Re: Logbook doubts 397 Merrell 22-May-13 12:53
Re: Logbook doubts 369 Audrey 24-May-13 01:48
Moderator Caution 331 Hoppy 22-May-13 12:55
Re: Logbook doubts 336 Martin Stower 22-May-13 16:06
Re: Logbook doubts 296 Audrey 24-May-13 01:41
Re: Logbook doubts 300 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:56
Re: Logbook doubts 284 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:40
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 364 Thanos5150 16-May-13 19:41
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 367 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 21:56
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 310 Thanos5150 16-May-13 23:11
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 295 Dr. Troglodyte 17-May-13 00:01
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 331 Thanos5150 17-May-13 00:30
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 300 cladking 16-May-13 21:50
Moderator Caution 340 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:09
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 264 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:53
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 308 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 17:40
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 299 Martin Stower 13-May-13 18:32
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 379 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 19:23
Moderator Caution #2 222 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:18
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 255 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:52
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 298 Nejc 11-May-13 13:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 279 JonnyMcA 11-May-13 18:41
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 280 Audrey 12-May-13 07:59
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 255 JonnyMcA 12-May-13 09:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 311 HungryHun 12-May-13 13:00
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 254 HungryHun 13-May-13 12:46
Re: Caviglia's complaint.... 264 Thunderbird 13-May-13 16:20
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 262 HungryHun 13-May-13 19:36
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 257 Martin Stower 15-May-13 15:04
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 246 HungryHun 16-May-13 10:03
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 261 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 237 Merrell 16-May-13 16:33
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 261 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:02
Re: If fake, then... what? 287 MJT 16-May-13 12:45
More Vyse wickedness 277 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:14
Re: More Vyse wickedness 357 Scott Creighton 19-May-13 09:01
Re: More Vyse wickedness 364 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:44
Re: More Vyse wickedness 401 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:56
Re: More Vyse wickedness 409 jamesglory 21-May-13 10:26
Re: More Vyse wickedness 379 Audrey 22-May-13 02:42
Moderator Caution 308 Hoppy 20-May-13 17:57
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 298 Audrey 14-Jun-14 21:11
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 266 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:49
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 274 Scott Creighton 15-Jun-14 00:13
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 302 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 00:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 277 cladking 15-Jun-14 01:12
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 260 Sirfiroth 15-Jun-14 19:09
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 302 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:40
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 287 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:32
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 395 eyeofhorus33 16-Jun-14 18:38
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 282 Audrey 23-Jun-14 03:15
Australian Funeral 319 molder 15-Jun-14 05:03
Re: Australian Funeral 436 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:56
Re: Australian Funeral 256 molder 16-Jun-14 12:06
Re: Australian Funeral 267 cladking 16-Jun-14 16:50
Re: Australian Funeral 245 Audrey 23-Jun-14 01:58
Re: Australian Funeral 287 molder 19-Jun-14 07:25
Re: Australian Funeral 260 molder 20-Jun-14 10:28
Re: Australian Funeral/North American Funeral 248 molder 22-Jun-14 06:53


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