Mysteries :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
Welcome! Log InRegister
Hi "Dr Troglodyte",

I have read many times in your posts you use an awful lot of quotation marks around words that confuses the meaning of what you are trying to say sometimes. It implies you doubt the validity of the word's usage suggesting they are "so-called"....

“scientific means”, “quarry marks”, Dr. Robert M. Schoch, a “scientist”

Do you doubt these words are accurate?

“Campbell’s Chamber”, ”Khufu”, “marks”.

These all have a context as "so-called" so quotation marks would be appropriate.

Regarding your post,
Quote

Studying them closely, however, they looked authentically ancient to me. I could see later mineral crystals precipitated over them, a process that takes centuries or millennia, and the inscriptions continue under the overlying blocks.

Well, it has been over 150yrs since Vyse was there, pretty close to being "centuries", but this does leave one to wonder if whatever process that causes "mineral crystals to precipitate" might be accelerated by the micro-climate of these small chambers being in the heart of a 481ft pyramid in the middle of a desert. It would be interesting if Schoch made an analysis of the distribution of these crystals on the cartouche in question. It would stand to reason it would be uniform over both red ochre and exposed block, and if not, I assume this would mean something.

There is no doubt the quarry marks are genuine, the issue is the graffiti, particularly this one in question. Does it go under the other block or just terminate there?
Look here at Lady Arbuthnot's Chamber:[www.rickrichards.com]. It is interesting to note that some of the cartouches, like the one in question, terminate at another block whereas several others are written right over one block to the next. This can only mean two things:1) some blocks had cartouches written on them at the quarry and some were written on the blocks in situ, or 2) they were all written on in situ and some were terminated at an adjoining inaccessible block while others in more open spaces continued over one block to the next. A 3rd possibility exists if we assume all were all were written at the quarry, the block was cut, then matched up perfectly during construction so that the ultimately meaningless cartouches perfectly lined up once again. This does not seem reasonable if even possible. Therefore, what we have is that during construction workers dropped in for the fun of it and scrawled graffiti on the blocks which makes the possibility these were terminated and not pre-existing writings partially obscured by another block during construction.

Personally, I am on the fence about the whole forgery issue as to me both sides make compelling arguments though when I look at the cartouche in question it does appear to me there was once a dot in the center that was later covered by the center of the 3 lines. Someone, it is possible, changed their mind as to what to put in the circle. Whether this was Vyse or an ancient repairman for me the jury is still out. If genuine, this does not provide provenance regardless nor can we be sure when they were written.

I think there is an underserved line of inquiry to be made regarding the greater issue that may prove equally if not more compelling. By my count there are 8 different cartouches and at least 13 inscriptions in just this one chamber. All told there are over a dozen cartouches and several more inscriptions between all the chambers. No one seems to be taking the bait here, but again, it stands to reason to me that if we really want to understand the provenance and possibly greater meaning of the Khufu cartouche(s) in question that an inventory of translations needs to be made of ALL the graffiti so that they can be put into a proper context. If anyone has this information I would ask to please post it as it would be enormously helpful to this discussion.

Also, you forgot to quote Schoch's conclusion regarding the graffiti:

Quote

Still, just what do genuine quarry marks and inscriptions on stones deep within the Great Pyramid actually tell us? The hieroglyphic cartouche for the name Khufu was a powerful charm that has been found on any number of tombs and monuments throughout Egypt, many of them accurately dated to after the 4th Dynasty. The cartouche was used as a holy symbol the same way the cross was inscribed here, there, and everywhere by Christians in later centuries. The inscriptions don't necessarily prove that Khufu built the Great Pyramid. They might only mean Khufu himself was named after the Great Pyramid, which perhaps existed well before he did.



Post Edited (16-May-13 21:58)

Options: ReplyQuote


Subject Views Written By Posted
Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 1135 Dr. Troglodyte 10-May-13 20:14
William Wilberforce, crook 537 Martin Stower 11-May-13 12:17
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 502 Nejc 11-May-13 16:15
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 512 Merrell 11-May-13 18:36
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 508 Scott Creighton 12-May-13 11:27
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 586 Merrell 12-May-13 22:37
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 549 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 11:03
Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, excavator 456 Merrell 13-May-13 13:11
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 504 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 13:21
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 523 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:14
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 415 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:16
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 499 Merrell 14-May-13 09:41
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 498 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:47
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 506 Martin Stower 15-May-13 11:18
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 599 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 12:02
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 510 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:26
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 454 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 15:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 578 Martin Stower 16-May-13 09:55
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 489 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:04
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 488 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:34
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 437 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:43
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 507 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 569 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:09
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 494 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:31
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 465 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:36
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 464 cladking 16-May-13 15:14
Re: What are they so afraid of? 551 Thunderbird 16-May-13 15:55
Re: What are they so afraid of? 495 cladking 16-May-13 21:40
Calling Dr. Schoch 576 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 16:04
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 566 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 16:26
Logbook doubts 483 Merrell 16-May-13 21:38
Re: Logbook doubts 538 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 22:46
Re: Logbook doubts 434 Merrell 16-May-13 23:25
Re: Logbook doubts 503 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 08:00
Re: Logbook doubts 495 Merrell 17-May-13 14:30
Re: Logbook doubts 522 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 14:56
Re: Logbook doubts 490 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:11
Re: Logbook doubts 474 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:53
Re: Logbook doubts 442 MJT 17-May-13 22:31
Re: Logbook doubts 528 Merrell 18-May-13 11:23
Re: Logbook doubts 587 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 12:10
Re: Logbook doubts 613 Martin Stower 20-May-13 17:54
Re: Logbook doubts 418 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 00:20
Re: Logbook doubts 498 Morten 21-May-13 09:03
Re: Logbook doubts 542 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:22
Re: Logbook doubts 544 Merrell 21-May-13 10:26
Re: Logbook doubts 472 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:35
Re: Logbook doubts 507 Merrell 21-May-13 13:46
Re: Logbook doubts 422 Morten 21-May-13 10:40
Re: Logbook doubts 507 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 11:04
Re: Logbook doubts 519 Morten 21-May-13 11:29
Re: Logbook doubts 547 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 12:04
Re: Logbook doubts 503 Morten 21-May-13 13:19
Re: Logbook doubts 600 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 13:33
Re: Logbook doubts 501 Merrell 21-May-13 14:16
Re: Logbook doubts 507 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:27
Re: Logbook doubts 549 Merrell 21-May-13 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 528 Morten 21-May-13 14:37
Re: Logbook doubts 496 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:54
Re: Logbook doubts 526 Morten 22-May-13 10:51
Re: Logbook doubts 556 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:13
Re: Logbook doubts 434 Audrey 22-May-13 02:20
Re: Logbook doubts 496 Morten 22-May-13 08:18
Re: Logbook doubts 460 Martin Stower 22-May-13 15:02
Re: Logbook doubts 476 Audrey 24-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 668 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:43
Re: Logbook doubts 391 Audrey 24-May-13 01:10
Re: Logbook doubts 421 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 13:15
Re: Logbook doubts 535 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 18:17
Re: Logbook doubts 520 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 22:01
Re: Logbook doubts 460 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 22:15
Re:Khufu....Hyksos? 492 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 01:36
Re: Logbook doubts 486 Audrey 11-Jun-14 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 592 eyeofhorus33 11-Jun-14 22:18
Re: Logbook doubts 519 Audrey 12-Jun-14 21:22
Re: Logbook doubts 460 eyeofhorus33 12-Jun-14 22:20
Re: Logbook doubts 461 cladking 13-Jun-14 00:24
Re: Logbook doubts 443 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 22:53
Re: Logbook doubts 450 cladking 13-Jun-14 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 459 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 455 cladking 14-Jun-14 00:17
Re: Logbook doubts 479 Audrey 14-Jun-14 02:17
Re: Logbook doubts 531 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 11:44
Re: Logbook doubts 477 cladking 14-Jun-14 15:25
context and customs 423 Audrey 14-Jun-14 19:25
Re: context and customs 416 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:23
Re: Logbook doubts 485 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 21:29
Re: Logbook doubts 471 cladking 14-Jun-14 22:07
Re: Logbook doubts 462 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 23:04
Re: Logbook doubts 495 cladking 15-Jun-14 00:29
Re: Logbook doubts 489 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 18:35
Re: Logbook doubts 467 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:56
Re: Logbook doubts 483 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 21:26
Language doubts 439 cladking 15-Jun-14 21:48
Re: Language doubts 445 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 22:05
Re: Language doubts 458 cladking 15-Jun-14 22:51
Re: Language doubts 455 Audrey 16-Jun-14 04:17
Re: Language doubts 505 cladking 16-Jun-14 04:51
Re: Logbook doubts 373 cladking 12-Jun-14 22:57
Re:doubts 482 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 23:36
Re:doubts 443 Audrey 12-Jun-14 19:54
Moderator Notice 443 Hoppy 22-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 420 Audrey 22-May-13 02:52
Re: Logbook doubts 398 Martin Stower 18-May-13 13:37
Re: Logbook doubts 468 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 14:01
Re: Logbook doubts 450 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:52
Re: Logbook doubts 447 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:16
Re: Logbook doubts 530 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:57
Re: Logbook doubts 460 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:51
Re: Logbook doubts 435 Martin Stower 20-May-13 18:25
Re: Logbook doubts 312 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:49
Re: Logbook doubts 486 Martin Stower 21-May-13 15:42
Re: Logbook doubts 455 HungryHun 17-May-13 15:20
Re: Conspired.... 464 Thunderbird 17-May-13 15:47
Re: Conspired.... 461 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:04
Re: Conspired.... 433 Thunderbird 17-May-13 23:17
Re: Conspired....inspire d by money 488 Ratcho 03-Jun-13 05:57
Re: Logbook doubts 404 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:23
Re: Logbook doubts 460 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:28
Re: Logbook doubts 460 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:25
Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 440 LonelyAngel 29-May-13 14:41
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 417 Nejc 29-May-13 23:23
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 430 Merrell 30-May-13 09:25
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 486 Martin Stower 30-May-13 12:48
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 467 WINDINWATERS 30-May-13 14:40
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 366 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:00
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 427 WINDINWATERS 31-May-13 21:47
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 412 LonelyAngel 30-May-13 17:43
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 416 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:24
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 472 cladking 01-Jun-13 03:28
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 460 Merrell 01-Jun-13 11:02
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 398 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:59
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 417 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 633 Martin Stower 17-May-13 15:51
Re: Logbook doubts 461 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:27
Re: Logbook doubts 484 Nejc 17-May-13 22:28
Re: Logbook doubts 884 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:43
Re: Logbook doubts 726 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:12
Re: Logbook doubts 535 Merrell 19-May-13 16:43
Re: Logbook doubts 467 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 09:38
Re: Logbook doubts 428 Merrell 20-May-13 13:29
Re: Logbook doubts 554 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 13:58
Re: Logbook doubts 440 Merrell 20-May-13 14:55
Re: Logbook doubts 462 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:46
Re: Logbook doubts 494 HungryHun 20-May-13 22:02
Re: Logbook doubts 460 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:05
Re: Logbook doubts 473 sfbey 20-May-13 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 462 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:35
Re: Logbook doubts 476 sfbey 21-May-13 15:41
Moghrah 481 Merrell 21-May-13 18:09
Re: Logbook doubts 361 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 23:38
Re: Logbook doubts 383 Merrell 21-May-13 21:34
Re: Logbook doubts 395 Audrey 22-May-13 02:34
Re: Logbook doubts 438 Merrell 21-May-13 21:58
Re: Logbook doubts 461 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 10:42
Re: Logbook doubts 421 Merrell 22-May-13 11:43
Re: Logbook doubts 399 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 17:44
Re: Logbook doubts 339 Nejc 22-May-13 23:18
Re: Logbook doubts 334 cladking 23-May-13 00:51
Re: Logbook doubts 347 Merrell 23-May-13 08:41
Re: Logbook doubts 378 Martin Stower 20-May-13 19:19
Re: Logbook doubts 291 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 19:35
Re: Logbook doubts 417 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:59
Moderator Warning 492 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:12
Moderator Warning 401 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:11
Re: exercise elementary caution about sources 366 Thunderbird 20-May-13 19:36
Re: Logbook doubts 411 Audrey 22-May-13 02:50
Re: Logbook doubts 354 Merrell 22-May-13 12:53
Re: Logbook doubts 331 Audrey 24-May-13 01:48
Moderator Caution 283 Hoppy 22-May-13 12:55
Re: Logbook doubts 269 Martin Stower 22-May-13 16:06
Re: Logbook doubts 253 Audrey 24-May-13 01:41
Re: Logbook doubts 249 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:56
Re: Logbook doubts 234 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:40
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 312 Thanos5150 16-May-13 19:41
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 283 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 21:56
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 270 Thanos5150 16-May-13 23:11
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 247 Dr. Troglodyte 17-May-13 00:01
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 286 Thanos5150 17-May-13 00:30
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 253 cladking 16-May-13 21:50
Moderator Caution 301 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:09
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 220 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:53
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 260 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 17:40
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 250 Martin Stower 13-May-13 18:32
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 227 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 19:23
Moderator Caution #2 176 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:18
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 208 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:52
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 250 Nejc 11-May-13 13:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 235 JonnyMcA 11-May-13 18:41
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 236 Audrey 12-May-13 07:59
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 215 JonnyMcA 12-May-13 09:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 268 HungryHun 12-May-13 13:00
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 209 HungryHun 13-May-13 12:46
Re: Caviglia's complaint.... 222 Thunderbird 13-May-13 16:20
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 218 HungryHun 13-May-13 19:36
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 210 Martin Stower 15-May-13 15:04
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 206 HungryHun 16-May-13 10:03
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 216 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 191 Merrell 16-May-13 16:33
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 217 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:02
Re: If fake, then... what? 243 MJT 16-May-13 12:45
More Vyse wickedness 233 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:14
Re: More Vyse wickedness 314 Scott Creighton 19-May-13 09:01
Re: More Vyse wickedness 325 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:44
Re: More Vyse wickedness 329 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:56
Re: More Vyse wickedness 367 jamesglory 21-May-13 10:26
Re: More Vyse wickedness 339 Audrey 22-May-13 02:42
Moderator Caution 265 Hoppy 20-May-13 17:57
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 252 Audrey 14-Jun-14 21:11
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 218 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:49
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 230 Scott Creighton 15-Jun-14 00:13
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 255 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 00:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 223 cladking 15-Jun-14 01:12
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 219 Sirfiroth 15-Jun-14 19:09
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 257 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:40
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 245 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:32
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 327 eyeofhorus33 16-Jun-14 18:38
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 242 Audrey 23-Jun-14 03:15
Australian Funeral 278 molder 15-Jun-14 05:03
Re: Australian Funeral 384 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:56
Re: Australian Funeral 217 molder 16-Jun-14 12:06
Re: Australian Funeral 219 cladking 16-Jun-14 16:50
Re: Australian Funeral 202 Audrey 23-Jun-14 01:58
Re: Australian Funeral 247 molder 19-Jun-14 07:25
Re: Australian Funeral 219 molder 20-Jun-14 10:28
Re: Australian Funeral/North American Funeral 198 molder 22-Jun-14 06:53


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.