Mysteries :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
Welcome! Log InRegister
Quote

SC: Like I said - it comes down to Brewer's word against that of a known fraudster, Tricky Dicky Howard-Vyse. Who would you believe?

MS: Brewer’s word? You have an authenticated document, in his own hand?

Of course you don’t.

SC: Brewer's word/testimony as passed down by his family. There - better?

Quote

MS: What we have are claims made by his descendant, Walter Allen, claims he did not make before reading a summary of Sitchin...

SC: Stop making things up. The claims (based on a long-standing family oral tradition) were put down in written form by Walter Allen in 1954 - LONG BEFORE Sitchin ever appeared on the scene. Allen may not have made the claims of his great grandfather (Brewer) public before reading Sitchin but the claims of his great grandfather WERE there. Stop telling porkies.

Quote

MS: ...claims whose only evidential warrant is a problematic and questionable oral tradition.

SC: And you entirely miss the point. There is no reason for this charge to have been written down by the Allen family in 1954 - none. It served them no purpose - just a bit of family oral tradiiton that eventually found its way into written form in Walter Allen's notes. They had no reason to make such a charge and yet it has been made. THAT is the point. Are they telling the truth? Is the oral tradiiton wrong? It COULD be all bunk. But it COULD all be fact. The POINT is we will not know until we gather more evidence; until concensus Egyptology gets its finger out and scientifically tests those inscriptions. Are you getting this yet?

Quote

MS: There are no 19th-century documents: the material disclosed comprises notes written by Allen himself, with nothing (beyond Allen’s word) to establish when they were written.

SC: Certainly no letters from Brewer's family have been produced. Does that make Brewer's testimony (passed down to Allen) a lie? No, it doesn't. There was no reason for this family to make such a charge and yet the charge has been made in Allen's notes in 1954 and the charge will remain regardless of your blue-in-the-face protestations. If you want this charge to disappear then the only way that will happen is when you present hard, scientific proof that conclusively demonstrates the inscriptions 'discovered' by Tricky Dicky in those chambers are authentic. Let's see it. Present your scientific proof.

Quote

MS: Allow me to remind you that, until recently (when we goaded you into checking), you relied for Humphries Brewer’s very existence on the known liar Sitchin. Allow me to doubt that you’re much of a judge of what to believe.

SC: "Goaded into checking"? Pardon me while I roll about laughing at the man who has spent several decades being goaded with this debate.

Let me remind you that the basis of the Brewer/Allen claim has NOTHING to do with Sitchin. The Brewer/Allen claim existed (albeit unknown) LONG BEFORE Sitchin ever got to know about it or became involved with it--as you well know. Just because Sitchin's claim of forgery does not stand up to scrutiny (his wrongly claimed misspelling of Khufu) does not mean that the Brewer/Allen claim won't. They are separate claims made by different people at different times albeit Sitchin made the Brewer/Allen claim public. But just because Sitchin made the Brewer/Allen claim public does not mean that the basis of this particular fraud claim belongs to Sitchin - it absolutely doesn't. Period. But, of course, that doesn't suit your ends, does it? You like to drag Sitchin into the Brewer/Allen claim any chance you get because you know the forgery claim made by Sitchim himself turned out to be bogus and you like to tar the quite separate Brewer/Allen claim (made public by Sitchin) with the same poisoned brush of yours. You can fool yourself with your silly ploys but you won't pull the wool over the eyes of anyone with a brain. The Brewer/Allen claim stands entirely separate to what Sitchin alleged and, as such, should be dealt with separately. Period.

Quote

MS: And again we have the usual misdirection of claiming that this is a matter of “taking someone’s word” for something. It isn’t. The inscriptions are judged on their merits, by people who (I dare say) know more about ancient Egyptian script than you do.

SC: "Misdirection" my bahookie! That's the bottom line Stower. Brewer's word against Trcicky Dicky's. Might as well get used to it, dear boy.

SC



Post Edited (15-May-13 13:43)

Options: ReplyQuote


Subject Views Written By Posted
Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 1229 Dr. Troglodyte 10-May-13 20:14
William Wilberforce, crook 579 Martin Stower 11-May-13 12:17
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 547 Nejc 11-May-13 16:15
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 563 Merrell 11-May-13 18:36
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 555 Scott Creighton 12-May-13 11:27
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 632 Merrell 12-May-13 22:37
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 598 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 11:03
Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, excavator 504 Merrell 13-May-13 13:11
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 551 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 13:21
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 581 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:14
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 463 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:16
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 549 Merrell 14-May-13 09:41
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 550 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:47
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 667 Martin Stower 15-May-13 11:18
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 671 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 12:02
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 557 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:26
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 499 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 15:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 627 Martin Stower 16-May-13 09:55
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 538 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:04
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 539 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:34
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 488 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:43
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 549 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 615 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:09
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 540 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:31
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 513 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:36
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 509 cladking 16-May-13 15:14
Re: What are they so afraid of? 605 Thunderbird 16-May-13 15:55
Re: What are they so afraid of? 542 cladking 16-May-13 21:40
Calling Dr. Schoch 635 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 16:04
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 629 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 16:26
Logbook doubts 542 Merrell 16-May-13 21:38
Re: Logbook doubts 586 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 22:46
Re: Logbook doubts 480 Merrell 16-May-13 23:25
Re: Logbook doubts 550 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 08:00
Re: Logbook doubts 542 Merrell 17-May-13 14:30
Re: Logbook doubts 760 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 14:56
Re: Logbook doubts 542 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:11
Re: Logbook doubts 521 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:53
Re: Logbook doubts 492 MJT 17-May-13 22:31
Re: Logbook doubts 577 Merrell 18-May-13 11:23
Re: Logbook doubts 650 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 12:10
Re: Logbook doubts 672 Martin Stower 20-May-13 17:54
Re: Logbook doubts 465 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 00:20
Re: Logbook doubts 555 Morten 21-May-13 09:03
Re: Logbook doubts 594 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:22
Re: Logbook doubts 594 Merrell 21-May-13 10:26
Re: Logbook doubts 519 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:35
Re: Logbook doubts 551 Merrell 21-May-13 13:46
Re: Logbook doubts 469 Morten 21-May-13 10:40
Re: Logbook doubts 558 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 11:04
Re: Logbook doubts 565 Morten 21-May-13 11:29
Re: Logbook doubts 601 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 12:04
Re: Logbook doubts 547 Morten 21-May-13 13:19
Re: Logbook doubts 657 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 13:33
Re: Logbook doubts 550 Merrell 21-May-13 14:16
Re: Logbook doubts 558 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:27
Re: Logbook doubts 624 Merrell 21-May-13 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 576 Morten 21-May-13 14:37
Re: Logbook doubts 542 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:54
Re: Logbook doubts 576 Morten 22-May-13 10:51
Re: Logbook doubts 602 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:13
Re: Logbook doubts 622 Audrey 22-May-13 02:20
Re: Logbook doubts 542 Morten 22-May-13 08:18
Re: Logbook doubts 512 Martin Stower 22-May-13 15:02
Re: Logbook doubts 526 Audrey 24-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 862 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:43
Re: Logbook doubts 439 Audrey 24-May-13 01:10
Re: Logbook doubts 463 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 13:15
Re: Logbook doubts 587 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 18:17
Re: Logbook doubts 568 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 22:01
Re: Logbook doubts 510 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 22:15
Re:Khufu....Hyksos? 542 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 01:36
Re: Logbook doubts 531 Audrey 11-Jun-14 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 783 eyeofhorus33 11-Jun-14 22:18
Re: Logbook doubts 564 Audrey 12-Jun-14 21:22
Re: Logbook doubts 505 eyeofhorus33 12-Jun-14 22:20
Re: Logbook doubts 504 cladking 13-Jun-14 00:24
Re: Logbook doubts 489 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 22:53
Re: Logbook doubts 502 cladking 13-Jun-14 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 505 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 503 cladking 14-Jun-14 00:17
Re: Logbook doubts 520 Audrey 14-Jun-14 02:17
Re: Logbook doubts 581 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 11:44
Re: Logbook doubts 520 cladking 14-Jun-14 15:25
context and customs 478 Audrey 14-Jun-14 19:25
Re: context and customs 464 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:23
Re: Logbook doubts 542 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 21:29
Re: Logbook doubts 515 cladking 14-Jun-14 22:07
Re: Logbook doubts 510 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 23:04
Re: Logbook doubts 542 cladking 15-Jun-14 00:29
Re: Logbook doubts 532 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 18:35
Re: Logbook doubts 521 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:56
Re: Logbook doubts 529 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 21:26
Language doubts 484 cladking 15-Jun-14 21:48
Re: Language doubts 492 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 22:05
Re: Language doubts 504 cladking 15-Jun-14 22:51
Re: Language doubts 501 Audrey 16-Jun-14 04:17
Re: Language doubts 546 cladking 16-Jun-14 04:51
Re: Logbook doubts 421 cladking 12-Jun-14 22:57
Re:doubts 551 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 23:36
Re:doubts 487 Audrey 12-Jun-14 19:54
Moderator Notice 492 Hoppy 22-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 481 Audrey 22-May-13 02:52
Re: Logbook doubts 442 Martin Stower 18-May-13 13:37
Re: Logbook doubts 511 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 14:01
Re: Logbook doubts 496 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:52
Re: Logbook doubts 492 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:16
Re: Logbook doubts 578 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:57
Re: Logbook doubts 505 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:51
Re: Logbook doubts 485 Martin Stower 20-May-13 18:25
Re: Logbook doubts 364 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:49
Re: Logbook doubts 530 Martin Stower 21-May-13 15:42
Re: Logbook doubts 509 HungryHun 17-May-13 15:20
Re: Conspired.... 506 Thunderbird 17-May-13 15:47
Re: Conspired.... 503 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:04
Re: Conspired.... 479 Thunderbird 17-May-13 23:17
Re: Conspired....inspire d by money 542 Ratcho 03-Jun-13 05:57
Re: Logbook doubts 449 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:23
Re: Logbook doubts 509 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:28
Re: Logbook doubts 509 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:25
Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 484 LonelyAngel 29-May-13 14:41
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 467 Nejc 29-May-13 23:23
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 478 Merrell 30-May-13 09:25
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 560 Martin Stower 30-May-13 12:48
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 517 WINDINWATERS 30-May-13 14:40
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 413 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:00
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 476 WINDINWATERS 31-May-13 21:47
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 464 LonelyAngel 30-May-13 17:43
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 464 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:24
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 518 cladking 01-Jun-13 03:28
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 506 Merrell 01-Jun-13 11:02
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 491 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:59
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 469 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 680 Martin Stower 17-May-13 15:51
Re: Logbook doubts 512 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:27
Re: Logbook doubts 527 Nejc 17-May-13 22:28
Re: Logbook doubts 969 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:43
Re: Logbook doubts 796 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:12
Re: Logbook doubts 579 Merrell 19-May-13 16:43
Re: Logbook doubts 514 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 09:38
Re: Logbook doubts 475 Merrell 20-May-13 13:29
Re: Logbook doubts 611 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 13:58
Re: Logbook doubts 486 Merrell 20-May-13 14:55
Re: Logbook doubts 507 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:46
Re: Logbook doubts 544 HungryHun 20-May-13 22:02
Re: Logbook doubts 502 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:05
Re: Logbook doubts 520 sfbey 20-May-13 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 512 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:35
Re: Logbook doubts 521 sfbey 21-May-13 15:41
Moghrah 525 Merrell 21-May-13 18:09
Re: Logbook doubts 408 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 23:38
Re: Logbook doubts 429 Merrell 21-May-13 21:34
Re: Logbook doubts 446 Audrey 22-May-13 02:34
Re: Logbook doubts 487 Merrell 21-May-13 21:58
Re: Logbook doubts 513 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 10:42
Re: Logbook doubts 468 Merrell 22-May-13 11:43
Re: Logbook doubts 450 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 17:44
Re: Logbook doubts 400 Nejc 22-May-13 23:18
Re: Logbook doubts 377 cladking 23-May-13 00:51
Re: Logbook doubts 393 Merrell 23-May-13 08:41
Re: Logbook doubts 429 Martin Stower 20-May-13 19:19
Re: Logbook doubts 344 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 19:35
Re: Logbook doubts 462 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:59
Moderator Warning 614 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:12
Moderator Warning 449 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:11
Re: exercise elementary caution about sources 415 Thunderbird 20-May-13 19:36
Re: Logbook doubts 456 Audrey 22-May-13 02:50
Re: Logbook doubts 399 Merrell 22-May-13 12:53
Re: Logbook doubts 371 Audrey 24-May-13 01:48
Moderator Caution 333 Hoppy 22-May-13 12:55
Re: Logbook doubts 338 Martin Stower 22-May-13 16:06
Re: Logbook doubts 298 Audrey 24-May-13 01:41
Re: Logbook doubts 302 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:56
Re: Logbook doubts 287 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:40
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 366 Thanos5150 16-May-13 19:41
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 369 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 21:56
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 312 Thanos5150 16-May-13 23:11
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 297 Dr. Troglodyte 17-May-13 00:01
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 333 Thanos5150 17-May-13 00:30
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 302 cladking 16-May-13 21:50
Moderator Caution 342 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:09
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 266 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:53
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 310 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 17:40
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 301 Martin Stower 13-May-13 18:32
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 382 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 19:23
Moderator Caution #2 224 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:18
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 257 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:52
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 300 Nejc 11-May-13 13:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 281 JonnyMcA 11-May-13 18:41
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 282 Audrey 12-May-13 07:59
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 257 JonnyMcA 12-May-13 09:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 313 HungryHun 12-May-13 13:00
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 257 HungryHun 13-May-13 12:46
Re: Caviglia's complaint.... 266 Thunderbird 13-May-13 16:20
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 264 HungryHun 13-May-13 19:36
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 259 Martin Stower 15-May-13 15:04
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 248 HungryHun 16-May-13 10:03
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 263 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 239 Merrell 16-May-13 16:33
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 263 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:02
Re: If fake, then... what? 289 MJT 16-May-13 12:45
More Vyse wickedness 279 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:14
Re: More Vyse wickedness 359 Scott Creighton 19-May-13 09:01
Re: More Vyse wickedness 366 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:44
Re: More Vyse wickedness 411 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:56
Re: More Vyse wickedness 411 jamesglory 21-May-13 10:26
Re: More Vyse wickedness 381 Audrey 22-May-13 02:42
Moderator Caution 310 Hoppy 20-May-13 17:57
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 300 Audrey 14-Jun-14 21:11
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 268 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:49
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 276 Scott Creighton 15-Jun-14 00:13
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 304 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 00:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 279 cladking 15-Jun-14 01:12
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 262 Sirfiroth 15-Jun-14 19:09
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 304 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:40
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 289 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:32
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 397 eyeofhorus33 16-Jun-14 18:38
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 284 Audrey 23-Jun-14 03:15
Australian Funeral 321 molder 15-Jun-14 05:03
Re: Australian Funeral 438 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:56
Re: Australian Funeral 258 molder 16-Jun-14 12:06
Re: Australian Funeral 269 cladking 16-Jun-14 16:50
Re: Australian Funeral 247 Audrey 23-Jun-14 01:58
Re: Australian Funeral 289 molder 19-Jun-14 07:25
Re: Australian Funeral 262 molder 20-Jun-14 10:28
Re: Australian Funeral/North American Funeral 250 molder 22-Jun-14 06:53


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.