[*] What about the pyramid glyph mapped to T? How did this sound? Are you sure it isn't a D? How did you determine this?
[*] And why again wouldn't Champillion make the same mistake with t and d as he made with q and k? Or with S and Z.
[*] And what about Champillion's idea of fusing sounds? Is that even possible?
[*] Don't you think this was a bit rudimentair?
[*] And those 10 sounds fused into 1? Don't you think that is too much loss of information?
[*] Hell, don't you think such important work deserves more opinion than just Champillion?
[*] Could you point me to the latest sound study that happened since Champillion? Or any independent study sharing his views?
[*] Or show me the vid where all those experts do a blind test in translating texts?
[*] Or a huge dataset with all sounds matched against known contexts?

Like I said, there is no reason to be cocky. Neither literalism nor speculation will bring understanding. So, the common ground you deem safe, isn't safe. The quality of current translations show this.

Look man, you so called truth is a shaky foundation, clearly not fit to do the translation job. You hide behind Champillion but you fail to prove (or even explain) your own rationale. And my gut feeling tells me that if someone dodges to explain his rationale, that person either doesn't understand his own statement or that person has an agenda which makes him bent the truth.

Meanwhile, Manu, you have already wrongly accused me multiple times. Remember, I am no stakeholder in your discussion so I only force you guys to discuss on common ground and with equal terms (blanco interpretation). Not coincidentally, this is the same road Champillion took because that's the only possible road; you need to interpret sounds to extract meaning. Grammar, bigger picture, drawings, etc. all are (indirectly) derived from those sounds so discussing these is useless for now. This is nothing new; exactly the same discussion is before Champillion.

And somehow both of you seem to easily ramble away a few pages to explain unproveable facts. But the moment we touch the essence of your arguments, both of you fail to deliver. Even failing to recognize the circle-argument you are in. Meanwhile more rambling and ranting and ignoring the complete foundation of your discussion: the sounds, represented by glyphs, that contain the actual message. Funnily enough, you both do the same thing (assumptions!) while accusing each other without recognizing your own flawed reasoning.

Yes, I know. This is scary for a white man with European tongue. Yet, you have to struggle through those facts to even make a sensible statement about unfamiliar sounds and their meaning. Champillion at least understood this. And Cladking at least puts in the effort to try to explain his views. Not that it proves anything; he only drags in more speculation, to become a victim of his own speculation or your literalism.

Now, Manu, I don't say your wrong; I only ask you to prove that you are right to create an equal playing field. Then you seem to struggle to answer the most basic assumption of your opinion (or Champillion's hypothesize you build upon): you don't even try to explain the rationale for your reasoning.
That is probably because you can't really deal with those sounds. So you make this a fixed point, so you can avoid discussing the real issue: the rationale underlying these mapping of sounds to our alphabet. The choices Champillion made for you. While this seems a natural fit to you, without prove your statements are as unscientific as those of Cladking. There is a reason interpretations are shifting since Champillion and there is a reason "experts" can't agree on single lines; those that do agree are mostly copyist, lacking understanding and using reference and lookups to make a point. Those that rely on their own understanding will never gain acceptance from a school of sheep. Exactly what happened and now we have broken translations due to broken assumptions. Those wrong translation aren't only easy to see, it's also easy to see that mapping those sounds happened with a sledgehammer. Do you seriously belief that mapping 10 sounds to 1 letter will render correct translations? lol, let's fix this.

No more hiding Manu; you can't keep running from the real issue.
Prove those mappings are right, then we can move on to more difficult questions. This is still the easy part and I made it even more easy for you by providing a simple list that at least can give some more insights in your rationale.

Please, take your time. Obviously, you are not really comfortable with explaining your own rationale. Confronting yourself with your own assumptions can take some time to sink in.



Edited 23 time(s). Last edit at 29-Nov-18 13:23 by Duketown.