Mysteries :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
Welcome! Log InRegister
Milo wrote:
Herodias, Magdalen and Prakriti

[www.monsalvat.no]

Like the young Parsifal, the wild woman has many names. The many elements in Wagner's Kundry included another archetype found in literature from the Middle Ages onwards: the Wandering Jew. In Wagner's poem, Kundry becomes a reincarnation of Herodias who, because she had laughed at the Saviour's suffering, was cursed to wander through the world until His return. She is not only cursed to wander, but also always to tell the truth; and she cannot weep, only laugh her accursed laugh. Another Herodias can be found in Heine's poem Atta Troll; this former princess of Judea does not wander the world, but rides, laughing, with the Wild Hunt across the sky. She appears as a cruel rose in Mallarmé's Les fleurs (1864):

L'hyacinthe, le myrte à l'adorable éclair
Et, pareille à la chair de la femme, la rose
Cruelle, Hérodiade en fleur du jardin clair,
Celle qu'un sang farouche et et radieux arrose!

In her Cambridge Handbook, Lucy Beckett entirely misses the point of the Herodias reference, but makes an interesting observation about the reference to Mary Magdalen. Beckett reminds us that in 1848 Wagner had sketched a scenario for a play called Jesus of Nazareth, which includes a scene in which the penitent Magdalen kneels in repentance before Jesus on the shore of Lake Gennesareth; later in the play she was to anoint his head and wash his feet, just as Kundry does toward Parsifal in the opera. Although Wagner repeatedly denied that Parsifal was a Christ- figure (I never gave the Saviour a thought, he said), this image had stayed with him and was incorporated by him into the Good Friday scene.

In Die Sieger, an opera that Wagner never completed, a chaste young man called Ananda receives into the religious community a beautiful girl called Prakriti, who has passionately loved him; but Shakyamuni, the future Buddha persuades him to renounce her. The Buddha reveals that in an earlier incarnation, Prakriti had rejected, with mocking laughter, the love of a young man. Prakriti is a parallel to Mary Magdalen in the sense that both are outcasts. By absorbing these two outcast women, in their different ways excluded and despised by patriarchal societies, who by their associations with the Buddha and Christ respectively introduce further religious iconography to Wagner's drama, Kundry gained a further dimension.

You give me this long lecture on a fictional operatic character by Wagner with biblical connotations and you rail at me for countering with another fictional character with biblical connotations by another Wagner, who was arguably one of the greatest and deepest authors in his literary genre of the late 20th century. Get over yourself, Milo.

Options: ReplyQuote


Subject Views Written By Posted
Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 388 shamanaut 30-May-09 16:38
The work of Acharya S has been debunked 255 Milo 30-May-09 17:13
Obviously Christians are going to Gawf 204 shamanaut 30-May-09 23:14
Obviously Achyara supporters are going to Gawf 230 Milo 31-May-09 00:16
I cant debate with 'Faith' logic. 235 shamanaut 31-May-09 16:15
Re: I cant debate with 'Faith' logic. 215 Milo 31-May-09 16:24
Re: Obviously Christians are going to Gawf 246 David L 02-Jun-09 04:31
Re: Obviously Christians are going to Gawf 240 Milo 02-Jun-09 09:41
Re: Obviously Christians are going to Gawf 200 David L 03-Jun-09 04:48
Everyone on this forum has different beliefs to the next poster anyway 218 Milo 03-Jun-09 09:50
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 222 David Campbell 31-May-09 01:02
Nazareth - Archeological Evidence 272 Milo 31-May-09 01:10
Re: Nazareth - Archeological Evidence 198 David Campbell 31-May-09 02:02
Re: Nazareth - Archeological Evidence 213 Milo 31-May-09 02:23
Re: Nazareth - Archeological Evidence 201 Eddie Larry 31-May-09 03:06
Re: Nazareth - Archeological Evidence 214 Milo 31-May-09 03:18
Re: Nazareth - Archeological Evidence 207 Eddie Larry 31-May-09 03:33
Re: Nazareth - Archeological Evidence 206 Milo 31-May-09 03:47
Re: Nazareth - Archeological Evidence 209 David Campbell 31-May-09 04:44
Plagiarism 229 Milo 31-May-09 11:12
Re: Plagiarism 209 David Campbell 31-May-09 17:14
Re: Plagiarism 233 Milo 31-May-09 17:31
Re: Plagiarism 255 Lee McGiffen 03-Jun-09 14:08
Re: Plagiarism 184 Milo 03-Jun-09 21:48
Re: Plagiarism 224 Lee McGiffen 04-Jun-09 02:29
Re: Plagiarism 230 Milo 04-Jun-09 02:34
Demons 213 Milo 04-Jun-09 02:40
Re: Demons 183 Lee McGiffen 04-Jun-09 02:50
Re: Demons 217 Milo 04-Jun-09 03:03
Re: Plagiarism 212 Milo 04-Jun-09 03:07
Re: Plagiarism 191 Lee McGiffen 04-Jun-09 05:23
Re: Plagiarism 212 Milo 04-Jun-09 12:14
Re: Plagiarism 233 Lee McGiffen 04-Jun-09 12:30
Re: Plagiarism 208 Milo 04-Jun-09 12:35
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 208 papalou 03-Jun-09 23:03
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 213 Milo 03-Jun-09 23:09
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 239 papalou 04-Jun-09 18:01
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 194 Milo 04-Jun-09 18:57
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 196 martinpescatore 04-Jun-09 19:06
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 202 papalou 07-Jun-09 22:40
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 189 Milo 08-Jun-09 04:41
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 211 martinpescatore 08-Jun-09 08:25
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 232 Milo 08-Jun-09 12:42
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 188 martinpescatore 08-Jun-09 13:49
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 255 Milo 08-Jun-09 13:53
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 230 martinpescatore 08-Jun-09 14:44
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 211 Milo 08-Jun-09 14:52
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 225 martinpescatore 08-Jun-09 15:23
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 242 Milo 08-Jun-09 15:32
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 204 martinpescatore 08-Jun-09 16:14
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 208 Milo 08-Jun-09 16:21
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 168 martinpescatore 08-Jun-09 16:31
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 196 Milo 08-Jun-09 16:34
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 212 papalou 09-Jun-09 04:13
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 203 Milo 09-Jun-09 05:18
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 227 David Campbell 31-May-09 00:42
The Underlying Agenda 200 Milo 31-May-09 01:03
Re: The Underlying Agenda 239 David Campbell 31-May-09 01:18
Re: The Underlying Agenda 216 Milo 31-May-09 01:27
O wunden, wundenwoller heilige Speer! 188 Milo 31-May-09 01:48
Re: O wunden, wundenwoller heilige Speer! 213 David Campbell 31-May-09 02:41
Re: O wunden, wundenwoller heilige Speer! 176 Milo 31-May-09 02:44
Herodias, Magdalen and Prakriti 220 Milo 31-May-09 02:52
Re: Herodias, Magdalen and Prakriti 179 David Campbell 31-May-09 03:58
Re: Herodias, Magdalen and Prakriti 236 Milo 31-May-09 04:11
Re: Herodias, Magdalen and Prakriti 234 David Campbell 31-May-09 04:22
Re: Herodias, Magdalen and Prakriti 220 Milo 31-May-09 04:31
Re: Herodias, Magdalen and Prakriti 242 Milo 31-May-09 04:34
Re: The Underlying Agenda 230 David Campbell 31-May-09 02:28
Re: The Underlying Agenda 218 Milo 31-May-09 02:40
Re: The Underlying Agenda 204 David Campbell 31-May-09 03:03
Re: The Underlying Agenda 232 Milo 31-May-09 03:20
Re: The Underlying Agenda 209 David Campbell 31-May-09 04:11
Re: The Underlying Agenda 246 Milo 31-May-09 04:29
Re: The Underlying Agenda 206 The Kwuda 01-Jun-09 17:43
Re: The Underlying Agenda 214 Milo 01-Jun-09 19:14
Re: The Underlying Agenda 205 The Kwuda 02-Jun-09 10:55
Re: The Underlying Agenda 194 Milo 02-Jun-09 11:09
Re: The Underlying Agenda 196 The Kwuda 02-Jun-09 11:40
Re: The Underlying Agenda 247 Milo 02-Jun-09 13:41
Re: The Underlying Agenda 184 The Kwuda 02-Jun-09 11:51
Re: The Underlying Agenda 239 Milo 02-Jun-09 13:42
Re: The Underlying Agenda 233 The Kwuda 02-Jun-09 17:16
Re: The Underlying Agenda 207 Milo 02-Jun-09 22:04
Re: The Underlying Agenda 240 shamanaut 31-May-09 16:47
source of my quote 212 shamanaut 31-May-09 16:48
Re: source of my quote 226 Milo 31-May-09 17:27
Re: source of my quote 213 Milo 31-May-09 17:40
Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 216 Raja 01-Jun-09 21:25
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 275 Raja 01-Jun-09 21:30
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 229 R and M 02-Jun-09 09:18
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 222 The Kwuda 02-Jun-09 11:04
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 196 The Kwuda 02-Jun-09 17:45
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 235 R and M 03-Jun-09 04:28
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 196 The Kwuda 04-Jun-09 06:39
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 236 Milo 04-Jun-09 10:35
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 187 The Kwuda 05-Jun-09 23:31
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 220 Milo 05-Jun-09 23:34
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 202 The Kwuda 05-Jun-09 23:37
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 231 Milo 05-Jun-09 23:37
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 201 The Kwuda 05-Jun-09 23:40
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 212 Milo 05-Jun-09 23:43
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 186 The Kwuda 05-Jun-09 23:46
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 244 Milo 05-Jun-09 23:47
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 217 The Kwuda 05-Jun-09 23:43
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 190 Milo 05-Jun-09 23:44
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 217 The Kwuda 05-Jun-09 23:39
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 216 Milo 05-Jun-09 23:41
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 205 The Kwuda 05-Jun-09 23:44
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 195 Milo 05-Jun-09 23:45
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 204 The Kwuda 05-Jun-09 23:47
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 188 Milo 05-Jun-09 23:48
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 215 The Kwuda 05-Jun-09 23:50
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 207 Milo 05-Jun-09 23:51
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 199 The Kwuda 05-Jun-09 23:53
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 208 Milo 05-Jun-09 23:53
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 208 The Kwuda 05-Jun-09 23:51
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 186 Milo 05-Jun-09 23:53
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 186 The Kwuda 05-Jun-09 23:55
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 221 Milo 05-Jun-09 23:56
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 213 The Kwuda 05-Jun-09 23:58
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 207 Milo 06-Jun-09 00:02
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 204 The Kwuda 06-Jun-09 00:01
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 254 Milo 06-Jun-09 00:03
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 183 The Kwuda 06-Jun-09 00:06
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 197 Milo 06-Jun-09 00:09
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 172 The Kwuda 06-Jun-09 00:13
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 217 Milo 06-Jun-09 00:28
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 237 R and M 04-Jun-09 10:49
The two seeds of Genesis 3 187 Milo 04-Jun-09 11:39
Re: The two seeds of Genesis 3 198 R and M 05-Jun-09 05:47
Re: The two seeds of Genesis 3 209 Milo 05-Jun-09 10:21
Re: The two seeds of Genesis 3 235 R and M 05-Jun-09 13:29
Re: The two seeds of Genesis 3 206 ariston 05-Jun-09 13:41
Re: The two seeds of Genesis 3 185 Milo 05-Jun-09 14:14
correction... 189 Milo 05-Jun-09 14:16
Re: correction... 182 ariston 05-Jun-09 14:39
Ying and Yang is a flawed philosophy 234 Milo 05-Jun-09 15:01
correction... 201 Milo 05-Jun-09 15:45
Re: correction... 193 ariston 05-Jun-09 18:16
Re: correction... 225 Milo 05-Jun-09 22:30
Re: correction... 235 ariston 06-Jun-09 02:19
Re: correction... 208 Milo 06-Jun-09 03:00
Re: correction... 174 ariston 06-Jun-09 04:12
Re: correction... 199 Milo 06-Jun-09 04:23
Re: correction... 206 Eddie Larry 07-Jun-09 15:23
Re: correction... 208 Milo 07-Jun-09 17:42
Re: correction... 245 Eddie Larry 09-Jun-09 02:50
Re: correction... 226 Milo 09-Jun-09 05:19
Re: correction... 176 Eddie Larry 10-Jun-09 00:50
Re: correction... 220 Milo 10-Jun-09 05:02
Re: Ying and Yang is a flawed philosophy 218 papalou 07-Jun-09 22:53
Re: Ying and Yang is a flawed philosophy 205 papalou 07-Jun-09 23:15
Re: Ying and Yang is a flawed philosophy 220 Milo 08-Jun-09 04:45
Re: Ying and Yang is a flawed philosophy 251 papalou 07-Jun-09 23:24
Re: Ying and Yang is a flawed philosophy 200 Milo 08-Jun-09 04:48
Re: Ying and Yang is a flawed philosophy 210 papalou 09-Jun-09 04:18
Re: Ying and Yang is a flawed philosophy 234 Milo 09-Jun-09 05:20
Re: Ying and Yang is a flawed philosophy 180 Milo 08-Jun-09 04:44
Re: The two seeds of Genesis 3 222 R and M 06-Jun-09 07:54
ABC 236 Milo 06-Jun-09 12:36
Re: the end 239 R and M 07-Jun-09 10:12
Re: the end 204 Milo 07-Jun-09 11:20
Re: the end 189 R and M 08-Jun-09 07:15
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 219 The Kwuda 02-Jun-09 11:00
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 231 Milo 02-Jun-09 11:10
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 203 The Kwuda 02-Jun-09 11:37
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 215 The Kwuda 02-Jun-09 11:43
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 183 Milo 02-Jun-09 13:44
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 218 Milo 02-Jun-09 13:43
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 178 The Kwuda 02-Jun-09 17:51
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 216 shamanaut 03-Jun-09 17:07
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 204 Milo 03-Jun-09 21:50
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 203 Raja 04-Jun-09 07:14
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 265 Aine 04-Jun-09 15:59
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 216 Milo 04-Jun-09 19:07
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 286 Aine 04-Jun-09 19:51
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 231 Milo 04-Jun-09 20:31
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 177 martinpescatore 04-Jun-09 21:20
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 179 Milo 04-Jun-09 21:26
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 223 martinpescatore 05-Jun-09 06:18
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 243 Milo 05-Jun-09 10:22
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 228 martinpescatore 05-Jun-09 20:16
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 192 Raja 05-Jun-09 21:10
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 220 carolb 04-Jun-09 20:19
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 224 Milo 04-Jun-09 20:35
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 237 carolb 04-Jun-09 21:23
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 171 Milo 04-Jun-09 21:30
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 238 carolb 04-Jun-09 22:44
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 206 Milo 04-Jun-09 22:51
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 210 carolb 04-Jun-09 22:59
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 173 Milo 04-Jun-09 23:02
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 185 carolb 04-Jun-09 23:14
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 214 Milo 04-Jun-09 23:33
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 209 Milo 04-Jun-09 23:35
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 221 Tom Hebert 02-Jun-09 18:11
jesus was a man; Jesus was a myth 212 Eddie Larry 03-Jun-09 04:44
Re: jesus was a man; Jesus was a myth 243 Susan Doris 03-Jun-09 08:40
Re: jesus was a man; Jesus was a myth 212 Eddie Larry 04-Jun-09 01:13
Re: jesus was a man; Jesus was a myth 157 Tom Hebert 03-Jun-09 10:31
Re: jesus was a man; Jesus was a myth 204 Eddie Larry 04-Jun-09 03:15
Re: jesus was a man; Jesus was a myth 233 Milo 04-Jun-09 03:16
Jesus was not a myth 212 Milo 04-Jun-09 03:18
Re: jesus was a man; Jesus was a myth 240 Eddie Larry 04-Jun-09 03:49
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 178 Diomede 04-Jun-09 00:11
For a guy who never existed, he gets a lot of attention on the GHMB 200 David L 04-Jun-09 02:34
Re: For a guy who never existed, he gets a lot of attention on the GHMB 196 Milo 04-Jun-09 02:38
Re: For a guy who never existed, he gets a lot of attention on the GHMB 214 Eddie Larry 04-Jun-09 03:10
Jesus 232 Milo 04-Jun-09 03:14
Diabolical Mimicry 222 Deep1 04-Jun-09 21:11
Re: Diabolical Mimicry 215 Milo 04-Jun-09 21:15
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 187 Enigcom 05-Jun-09 17:43
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 173 The Kwuda 05-Jun-09 23:49
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 217 Milo 05-Jun-09 23:50
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 178 deeside 06-Jun-09 19:42
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 229 Milo 06-Jun-09 20:07
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 219 deeside 06-Jun-09 20:47
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 241 Milo 06-Jun-09 20:51
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 238 deeside 06-Jun-09 21:08
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 194 Milo 06-Jun-09 21:18
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 224 deeside 06-Jun-09 21:52
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 198 deeside 07-Jun-09 09:16
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 221 Milo 07-Jun-09 11:16
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 221 childinthesun 07-Jun-09 17:02
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 206 Milo 07-Jun-09 17:44
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 217 ariston 07-Jun-09 17:52
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 226 Milo 07-Jun-09 18:05
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 194 deeside 08-Jun-09 14:46
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 198 Milo 08-Jun-09 14:57
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 242 deeside 08-Jun-09 21:32
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 223 Milo 09-Jun-09 05:21
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 220 ariston 06-Jun-09 20:52
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 171 Milo 06-Jun-09 21:25
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 236 deeside 07-Jun-09 21:24
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 204 Milo 08-Jun-09 04:49
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 197 Eddie Larry 09-Jun-09 00:23
jesus was there... 212 shazaman 09-Jun-09 09:54
Re: jesus was there... 219 papalou 11-Jun-09 02:08
Re: jesus was there... 194 Milo 11-Jun-09 08:46
Re: jesus was there... 188 martinpescatore 11-Jun-09 09:38
Re: jesus was there... 208 Milo 11-Jun-09 10:14
Re: jesus was there... 192 Milo 11-Jun-09 10:37
Re: jesus was there... 224 martinpescatore 11-Jun-09 11:32
Re: jesus was there... 251 Milo 11-Jun-09 13:17
Re: jesus was there... 208 martinpescatore 11-Jun-09 19:56
Re: jesus was there... 207 Milo 11-Jun-09 21:44
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 211 martinpescatore 11-Jun-09 15:36


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.